Forerunners vs Galactic Empire

[Connor MacLeod]

What difference would it make if Johnson is a sparrtan-1 OR he has some rare neurological disease? Either way there would have to be something unusual with him for him to have any resistance at all. As I recall, Master Chief wasn't immune to infection was he?

So again, it's a case of not being terribly bright. Wasn't this the same USNC that sacrificed people to create AIs and conscripted (or kidnapped) children to experiment on and make into virtual super soldiers?

[CycloneRider052]

What difference would it make if Johnson is a sparrtan-1 OR he has some rare neurological disease? Either way there would have to be something unusual with him for him to have any resistance at all. As I recall, Master Chief wasn't immune to infection was he?

So again, it's a case of not being terribly bright. Wasn't this the same USNC that sacrificed people to create AIs and conscripted (or kidnapped) children to experiment on and make into virtual super soldiers?

Not to mention creating the Spartan-III's for the sole purpose of buying time until they could come up with a better idea. The UNSC is ran by a bunch of fucking idiots.

[Noble Ire]

What difference would it make if Johnson is a sparrtan-1 OR he has some rare neurological disease? Either way there would have to be something unusual with him for him to have any resistance at all. As I recall, Master Chief wasn't immune to infection was he?

No Spartan of any class has ever infected by the Flood, so their susceptibility is unknown. However, the augmentation regimen of the Spartan-IIs is know, and it doesn't involve any modification that would immunize them against the Flood, were such a thing even possible. Infection forms burrow into their victim's chests and then hijack their nervous and glandular systems diretly; I'm not sure what kind of treatment could prevent that; at the very least, the victim would still be dead. IIRC, the canon-status of Johnson's "syndrome" has been called into question by at least one Bungie staff-member, and right now the official explanation, as seen in the graphic novel, is that Johnson was simply "bad-ass" enough to fight his way to safety.

So again, it's a case of not being terribly bright. Wasn't this the same USNC that sacrificed people to create AIs and conscripted (or kidnapped) children to experiment on and make into virtual super soldiers?

Did the UNSC actually kill people to make the AIs, though? I recall that "smart" AIs are based off of living neural tissue, but I don't remember the implication that people were actually executed for it ever being made (rather, that cloned brains or those of the recently deceased were used). As for the second, I'm not certain how the Spartan enlistment program was "stupid"; it was certainly a study in eugenics, kidnapping, and extreme moral laxity, but it was a measure borne of desperate times, and it did produce results.

Not to mention creating the Spartan-III's for the sole purpose of buying time until they could come up with a better idea. The UNSC is ran by a bunch of fucking idiots.

Again, I'm not seeing how acting out of desperation necessarily equates to outright stupidity. The UNSC knew it was losing the war, and its leadership was willing to try absolutely anything to stave off the discovery of their last worlds and humanity's subsequent extinction.

[Connor MacLeod]

No Spartan of any class has ever infected by the Flood, so their susceptibility is unknown. However, the augmentation regimen of the Spartan-IIs is know, and it doesn't involve any modification that would immunize them against the Flood, were such a thing even possible. Infection forms burrow into their victim's chests and then hijack their nervous and glandular systems diretly; I'm not sure what kind of treatment could prevent that; at the very least, the victim would still be dead. IIRC, the canon-status of Johnson's "syndrome" has been called into question by at least one Bungie staff-member, and right now the official explanation, as seen in the graphic novel, is that Johnson was simply "bad-ass" enough to fight his way to safety.

As I recall they have boosted senses, ,strength, and speed, among other traits. I'm pretty sure that would require manipulation of the nervous system to at least some extent to make work, if for no other reason than to tie all those extra muscles adn whatnot into the Spartan's nervous system so he can control them.

Did the UNSC actually kill people to make the AIs, though? I recall that "smart" AIs are based off of living neural tissue, but I don't remember the implication that people were actually executed for it ever being made (rather, that cloned brains or those of the recently deceased were used). As for the second, I'm not certain how the Spartan enlistment program was "stupid"; it was certainly a study in eugenics, kidnapping, and extreme moral laxity, but it was a measure borne of desperate times, and it did produce results.

According to that Bestiarum thingy's tech tiers (at least what I can pull off the net) The USNC-level AIs require "blood sacrifice, memory transfer, and flash cloning" Doesn't sound all that benevolent to me. Supposedly the process destroys brain tissue as well, which can't be good. (it also says they can use dead brains for it, but dead bodies aren't much of a "sacrifice", and it seemed to imply the clone used for Cortana wasn't dead.)

Again, I'm not seeing how acting out of desperation necessarily equates to outright stupidity. The UNSC knew it was losing the war, and its leadership was willing to try absolutely anything to stave off the discovery of their last worlds and humanity's subsequent extinction.

Who';s talking about the Covenant per se? The original contention as Mike noted was dealing with the USNC's stupidity conceerning the Flood, which is fairly inexcusable since they apparently made no effort to explore this particular resistance even though it has some value.

Although, if one really thinks about it, was the way they went about fighting the covvies the BEST way? Their space based fleets using capital-ship-length railguns that require turning the ship to move, and making what seems to be sparing use of nukes seems a little silly. (Especially since we know that in one or two of those cases they can compromise better, like the railguns the Warthog supposedly had.) Of the lot (Forerunner, Covenant, and human) they may be the least stupid but that ain't saying a great deal.) Even things like the USNC supposedly reverse engineering Covvie tech in some ways but not others (Spartan shields come to mind.)

The sad partt is is that, ,like Mike said, alot of the stupidity comes from bad writing and consistency.

[Ford Prefect]

and it seemed to imply the clone used for Cortana wasn't dead.)

Catherine Halsey was the basis for Cortana, and her brain was cloned for the purpose. However, it did not kill Halsey or to my knowledge harm her in any way. She's still alive, I think (I'm not all that privy on the details of Ghosts of Oynx).

[Connor MacLeod]

and it seemed to imply the clone used for Cortana wasn't dead.)

Catherine Halsey was the basis for Cortana, and her brain was cloned for the purpose. However, it did not kill Halsey or to my knowledge harm her in any way. She's still alive, I think (I'm not all that privy on the details of Ghosts of Oynx).

1.) I was more than aware she was the host, having spoiled myself, but I didnt want to spoil quite THAT much

2.) since she was cloned, I doubt the original self would be harmed.

[Ford Prefect]

1.) I was more than aware she was the host, having spoiled myself, but I didnt want to spoil quite THAT much

Err, sorry about that.

2.) since she was cloned, I doubt the original self would be harmed.

As i understand it, it was only her brain. Which asks the question as to why they need the physical thing, given they can obviously get a very accurate picture of what's going on in the brain matter. Naturally it can be chalked up to, as has been mentioned by yourself and Darth Wong, some pretty bad writing.

[JointStrikeFighter]

Even things like the USNC supposedly reverse engineering Covvie tech in some ways but not others (Spartan shields come to mind.)

Personally the idea of reverse engineering Jackal Shields [descriped as "linear Energy Fields"] to make the Chief's shields always struck me as ridiculous given how different they are. Its possible that the shields were a simple lift-job from an Elite but for various reasons ONI didn't wish to disclose this fact and came up with the story about Jackal Sheilds as a cover.

[CycloneRider052]

No Spartan of any class has ever infected by the Flood, so their susceptibility is unknown. However, the augmentation regimen of the Spartan-IIs is know, and it doesn't involve any modification that would immunize them against the Flood, were such a thing even possible. Infection forms burrow into their victim's chests and then hijack their nervous and glandular systems diretly; I'm not sure what kind of treatment could prevent that; at the very least, the victim would still be dead. IIRC, the canon-status of Johnson's "syndrome" has been called into question by at least one Bungie staff-member, and right now the official explanation, as seen in the graphic novel, is that Johnson was simply "bad-ass" enough to fight his way to safety.

Quite. Hopefully Contact Harvest will give us a little more detail on Johnson, since I believe he's supposed to be the main character; and with Halo's main story-writer authoring it; it'll be essentially straight from the horse's mouth.

[Did the UNSC actually kill people to make the AIs, though? I recall that "smart" AIs are based off of living neural tissue, but I don't remember the implication that people were actually executed for it ever being made (rather, that cloned brains or those of the recently deceased were used). As for the second, I'm not certain how the Spartan enlistment program was "stupid"; it was certainly a study in eugenics, kidnapping, and extreme moral laxity, but it was a measure borne of desperate times, and it did produce results.

I thought that Cortana was unique in that she was created from the Halsey's cloned brain, since she was supposed to be an experiment in a new way of making smart AI's so they wouldn't fall prey to that 7 year life-span anymore.

Again, I'm not seeing how acting out of desperation necessarily equates to outright stupidity. The UNSC knew it was losing the war, and its leadership was willing to try absolutely anything to stave off the discovery of their last worlds and humanity's subsequent extinction.

At the rate the Covenant seemed to be stumbling on colonies, it would seem like the Cole Protocol was pretty much...worthless. Unless humanity just had a penchant for settling on former Forerunner planets and the Covenant had recovered locations...Anyway...UNSC stupidity. Honestly, a lot of what ONI does just strikes me as blatant ass-holism and attempts to maintain a standard of secrecy that is probably doing a lot more harm than good. The actual line forces of the UNSC are pretty competant, it's just all that ONI bullshit that gets me. Which is likely a relic from that semi-cold war they'd been having with the Outer Colony rebels for god knows how long. Anyway, you're right. I can't really find any major evidence of blatant stupidity that you wouldn't find in any other military.

[Connor MacLeod]

Theres still that damned "blood sacrifice" bit. DEad corpses do not a sacrifice make. Its just fucking meat.

[ArcturusMengsk]

Theres still that damned "blood sacrifice" bit. DEad corpses do not a sacrifice make. Its just fucking meat.

Depending on the religious-ethical inclinations of UNSC humans, it might be seen in the same light as stem-cell research is today; i.e. the desecration of a human body,

[Noble Ire]

Theres still that damned "blood sacrifice" bit. DEad corpses do not a sacrifice make. Its just fucking meat.

Depending on the religious-ethical inclinations of UNSC humans, it might be seen in the same light as stem-cell research is today; i.e. the desecration of a human body,

Keep in mind, the "blood sacrifices" quote comes from a non-human observer, possibly Forerunner in origin; we have no idea what their ethical and moral views on something like clone-harvesting might be.

[Connor MacLeod]

Keep in mind, the "blood sacrifices" quote comes from a non-human observer, possibly Forerunner in origin; we have no idea what their ethical and moral views on something like clone-harvesting might be.

Flash cloning (and the memory transfer process by which the AIs are created) are mentioned as being separate from the "blood sacrifice", so I don't see how those excuses cahnge the point.

I understand that they did this shit (as with the Spartans) out of necessity (supposedly) but that doesn't exactly change the fact they are cold and bloodthirsty bastards either.

[avatarxprime]

Keep in mind, the "blood sacrifices" quote comes from a non-human observer, possibly Forerunner in origin; we have no idea what their ethical and moral views on something like clone-harvesting might be.

Flash cloning (and the memory transfer process by which the AIs are created) are mentioned as being separate from the "blood sacrifice", so I don't see how those excuses cahnge the point.

I understand that they did this shit (as with the Spartans) out of necessity (supposedly) but that doesn't exactly change the fact they are cold and bloodthirsty bastards either.

I've been thinking about this, possibly it's used in a mythical context. Haloverse Humans don't know how to properly design an AI, nor do they know how exactly to copy a brain to generate one. I believe they went through 20 Dr. Halsey clones before creating Cortana or something of that nature. Perhaps "blood sacrifice" relates to this, the Humans are basically offering to the gods in order to get a functional AI.

[Connor MacLeod]

I've been thinking about this, possibly it's used in a mythical context. Haloverse Humans don't know how to properly design an AI, nor do they know how exactly to copy a brain to generate one. I believe they went through 20 Dr. Halsey clones before creating Cortana or something of that nature. Perhaps "blood sacrifice" relates to this, the Humans are basically offering to the gods in order to get a functional AI.

Which would change the point that they're still sacrificing people how? (and disregarding that the "flash cloning" and "memory transfer" bits are also mentioned alongside the "blood sacrifice". Its rather bloody unlikely they're being figurative or anything in what is supposed to be a fairly concise description of technological progression and capability.)