Lake Lanier has three months of water left

[Ace Pace]

I've heard a lot of people talking about this, so I think people are going to comply than they might have before. Except that when I was out in Atlanta last night, I saw an automatic sprinkler system running in front of some restaurants.

In any case, what are everyone's thoughts on lowering the water level enough to conserve but to the point where the mussels might die? Is it worth it to let the whole region dry up just so some river animals have enough water level? It seems absurd to me.

I find it kinda odd that sprinklers still get used in arid regions. Israel has long just used these 'drops' pipes, which are very water efficient and except for large grass tracts, no one uses sprinklers.

[Lord MJ]

I've heard a lot of people talking about this, so I think people are going to comply than they might have before. Except that when I was out in Atlanta last night, I saw an automatic sprinkler system running in front of some restaurants.

In any case, what are everyone's thoughts on lowering the water level enough to conserve but to the point where the mussels might die? Is it worth it to let the whole region dry up just so some river animals have enough water level? It seems absurd to me.

I find it kinda odd that sprinklers still get used in arid regions. Israel has long just used these 'drops' pipes, which are very water efficient and except for large grass tracts, no one uses sprinklers.

Well Georgia isn't exactly an arid region. Well not yet anyway...

[Darth Wong]

I find it kinda odd that sprinklers still get used in arid regions. Israel has long just used these 'drops' pipes, which are very water efficient and except for large grass tracts, no one uses sprinklers.

America's culture is based on the assumption of infinite resources. The very word "conservation" is considered a liberal tree-hugger hippie word. Many Americans take a perverse pride in their ability to waste resources and pollute the environment; talk to any unrepentant monster-SUV driver for an example of such an individual.

[Darth Servo]

I find it kinda odd that sprinklers still get used in arid regions. Israel has long just used these 'drops' pipes, which are very water efficient and except for large grass tracts, no one uses sprinklers.

America's culture is based on the assumption of infinite resources. The very word "conservation" is considered a liberal tree-hugger hippie word. Many Americans take a perverse pride in their ability to waste resources and pollute the environment; talk to any unrepentant monster-SUV driver for an example of such an individual.

American dream = getting rich

Being rich = can afford to be wasteful.

Therefore, being wasteful is interpreted as a sign of wealth

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

I've heard a lot of people talking about this, so I think people are going to comply than they might have before. Except that when I was out in Atlanta last night, I saw an automatic sprinkler system running in front of some restaurants.

In any case, what are everyone's thoughts on lowering the water level enough to conserve but to the point where the mussels might die? Is it worth it to let the whole region dry up just so some river animals have enough water level? It seems absurd to me.

I find it kinda odd that sprinklers still get used in arid regions. Israel has long just used these 'drops' pipes, which are very water efficient and except for large grass tracts, no one uses sprinklers.

Well Georgia isn't exactly an arid region. Well not yet anyway...

I see sprinklers everywhere here in Tempe, and the Phoenix Valley is definitely an arid region. If people want to have sprinklers watering their lawns here, I can't see people in the Atlanta area willingly giving it up any time soon.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The price elasticity of demand here in FL of public water resources is surprisingly responsive. The asymptote is actually only 5-600% of current prices for discretionary water use. They needed to enforce rationing and, oh I dunno, severely raise water utility prices, and have marginal prices above a certain gallon/week consumption to be extremely high.

[loomer]

I'm sorry, but I have to say this.

Bitch some more, Atlanta. Bitch some more. Then survive a drought that's been going on for what, a decade now(Which would actually render it as NOT a drought... Since a drought is a period of lower than average rainfall, and it's now the average) , and maybe you'll have something to actually complain about.

[Sea Skimmer]

A huge portion of the world is facing critical or soon to be critical water shortages, and it should be no surprise. It’s very rare that reservoir building keeps pace with population expansion, all else aside.

In my county, relatively wet, we haven’t added a new reservoir in over 30 years, while the population has grown by better then a million people. We had record rainfall early in the summer, in fact we remained ahead in rainfall until recently, but because the reservoirs couldn’t store the extra water, and the second half of the summer was bone dry the main reservoir fell by at least 15ft. No fear though, because even a few heavy rainfalls should fill it back up, but it just goes to show how rapidly things could go bad.

[Shinova]

talk to any unrepentant monster-SUV driver for an example of such an individual.

That had me thinking about the SUVs most Americans buy, like Fords or Chevys and so on and looked around a bit. There's these 5 and 6 litre V8s with below 20 mpgs that have less performance than Lexus engines almost a whole litre smaller than they are. Not to mention better fuel economy for the Lexus engines.

To me the problem doesn't mainly seem to be that there are monstrous V8's and V12's running around the road, but that it's the vast middle class that are driving them. If gasoline and cars were expensive enough that only the tiny top few percent of Americans were able to afford those kinds of cars, we'd be hell of a lot better off.

That way we cut back on gas and emissions and at the same time let the rich folk keep their toys.

[Sea Skimmer]

That had me thinking about the SUVs most Americans buy, like Fords or Chevys and so on and looked around a bit. There's these 5 and 6 litre V8s with below 20 mpgs that have less performance than Lexus engines almost a whole litre smaller than they are. Not to mention better fuel economy for the Lexus engines.

American engine designers have, and always have had a different philosophy vs. European and Japanese designers. The prefer larger less highly stressed engines which have much longer lives, a Chevy small block V-8 can be rebuilt over and over again until the end of time. You can see this difference 80 years ago, its particularly apparent in late WW2 aircraft engines.A comparison of engine power and displacement is really too simplistic and. A Lexus is a more expensive vehicle for its weight then a typical Ford or Chevy, it had better get more performance out of its engine.

If you don’t care about cost or engine life then you can easily enough build a 2.8 liter engine that produces 800hp. And of course don’t forget that a car or SUV engine actually turns 15-25% of its engine power into heat in the transmission and drivetrain. More expensive cars have more efficient transmissions and lighter rotational mass in the drive train, which can significantly improve fuel economy, provided that engine power isn’t then substantially increased.

To me the problem doesn't mainly seem to be that there are monstrous V8's and V12's running around the road, but that it's the vast middle class that are driving them.

V12s? Only a handfuls of V12 production cars have ever existed, and the only ones around today cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, heck even then most supercars use 10 cylinders or less. V8 engines range wildly in actual size and performance, and are generally perfectly appropriate for the size of vehicles they get put in. If you have a big SUV then you’ll get better mileage if your engine is nice and big and isn’t constantly revving up past 4000 in ordered to move the thing. The H1 IIRC actually had the best fuel economy with its biggest engine and with any engine it had excellent fuel economy for its weight… but the weight was huge.

Course, published EPA fuel economy ratings are pretty much devoiced from reality, radically in some cases. Thanks to the unrealistic test standards and unrealistic driving habits of the test drivers, you can end up with ratings which as much as 10mpg too high or 10mpg too low.

I agree fully that too many people have vehicles which are too heavy for what they actually need, but it’s pointless to begin complaining about specific engine options. You cannot make a realistic comparison unless you at the least know the engines specific fuel consumption rating.