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Lonestar
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Post by Lonestar »

San Diego Union-Tribune
October 15, 2007

Marine Suing Producer Of Training Film

Wounds in simulated capture ended lance corporal's career

By Debbi Farr Baker, Union-Tribune Breaking News Team

Marine Lance Cpl. Jesse Klingler was gagged and blindfolded with his hands and legs tied behind him when an actor playing the role of an enemy combatant pressed an AK-47 loaded with blanks against his right thigh and fired.

The rifle sent a fireball of gases into Klingler's leg, leaving him with a bloody wound that ended his military career.

Klingler, then 18, was preparing to deploy to Afghanistan in 2004 when he was tapped to take part in a simulated capture and interrogation during training at Miramar Marine Corps Air Station. The incident was detailed in the report from the Marine Corps' investigation.

The actor, employed by Strategic Operations Inc., repeatedly punched and kicked Klingler, who was lying on his back, and demanded that he answer questions, the report said. At one point in the mock interrogation, the man pressed an unloaded gun against Klingler's groin and pulled the trigger.

Strategic Operations Inc. is a military contractor that conducts training exercises designed to realistically simulate the environments troops will find in war.

The next thing Klingler remembers was hearing the man yelling for someone to get his magazine, the sound of an AK-47 assault rifle being loaded and the crack of a gunshot as the gun's barrel pushed hard against his leg.

“There was a bang, my leg felt numb, then I felt extravagant pain,” Klingler, of Lebanon, Tenn., said in an interview.

He rolled to his side to get away, but the actor put his foot in the middle of Klingler's back and fired again, hitting him in the other leg.

Klingler then turned over onto his stomach. Just as he felt the hot muzzle of the gun being pressed against the base of his neck, Marine instructors intervened and stopped the exercise.

The internal investigation conducted by the Marine Corps after the incident on Sept. 18, 2004, described the training scenario as a poorly supervised, “opportunistic, un-briefed event.”

The report went on to say that “quick action of the instructors prevented the incident from becoming deadly by removing the weapon from the actor and tending to the Marine.”

Klingler is suing San Diego-based Strategic Operations Inc. and Stu Segall Productions Inc., both owned by the television and movie producer, over the injuries he suffered in the exercise. The trial is expected to get under way today in Superior Court.

The suit also names Rocky Mohsen, who was working as a role player for Strategic Operations. Mohsen, 46, who is also known as Ali Mohammad Mohsen, is Lebanese immigrant who speaks fluent Arabic. He was fired immediately after the incident, the Marines' report said. All the parties in the case agree that Mohsen fired the gun into Klingler's thigh at point-blank range. What they do not agree upon is who is at fault.

According to the Marines' report, Mohsen had told his employers that he had served in the Lebanese army and was a sharpshooter experienced in handling automatic weapons.

Mohsen did not tell them that he is a felon with at least two drug convictions and two restraining orders sought against him by women who said he was harassing and threatening them, said Klingler's lawyer, Robert Gaglione.

Neither the Marines nor the attorney representing Mohsen returned calls to discuss the case.

Mike Neil, a retired Marine brigadier general who is representing the Stu Segall companies, said the Marine Corps was at fault because it had full control of the situation. Neil describes the shooting as “an unfortunate accident,” and points to the Marines' findings that the accident could have been prevented if the training had been supervised properly.

The Marines' report stated “the level of coordination required in planning the next scheduled scenario did not allow supervisors to properly oversee the unscheduled Klingler exercise.” It also said the incident could have been prevented if one instructor had been assigned to provide “continuous, undistracted supervision.”

Neil said his client played no role in the incident, and that Mohsen's prior convictions, of which the company was unaware, “had nothing do with what happened.”

“This is a Marine Corps matter from beginning to end,” said Neil, a former commanding officer of Camp Pendleton.

Klingler's attorney says that Stu Segall Productions and Strategic Operations, which produce the training exercises, are to blame because the company hired a convicted felon and allowed him to handle a weapon, which is a violation of state and federal laws.

The company should have conducted a background check on Mohsen before hiring him, Gaglione said.

“This was a failure on the companies' part, not the military's,” he said. “They are supposed to train Marines, not injure them.”

The lawsuit asks for up to $2 million in damages to cover future lost wages, and medical costs and an additional amount for pain and suffering.

Klingler underwent two surgeries for the wound to his right thigh and was treated for a superficial burn to the other thigh. Klingler said he was hospitalized for two weeks, placed on 30 days of convalescent leave and received a medical discharge in September 2005.

He was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder and the Department of Veterans Affairs rated him as permanently disabled, Gaglione said.

Neil said the case is simply about money, that Klingler is exaggerating his injuries and that he is going after Stu Segall's deep pockets because he cannot sue the military.

Neil said Klingler's shooting was an isolated incident, that the company has an excellent safety record and that all its employees undergo safety lectures.

“Stu Segall is a very patriotic American who goes to great lengths to assist the Marine Corps in preparing realistic scenarios that prepare Marines for the world they are going to face when they go to Iraq,” he said. “Sometimes accidents occur.”

Klingler, now 21, said that Segall should step up and accept responsibility.

“It saddens me that I would put my life on the line for him and his family and they're not standing up and doing what's right,” he said.

You know, I'm almost positive that if a Marine had pulled the trigger his ass would have been thrown in the brig.
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Post by Aaron »

Sometimes accidents occur? There is a minimum safe distance for using blank rounds around people for a reason. It's fucking 25 meters. This was willful negligance.
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Post by Frank Hipper »

Sue the taste out of those bastard's fucking mouths!

That shit's horrible! :x
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Post by Edi »

Cpl Kendall wrote:Sometimes accidents occur? There is a minimum safe distance for using blank rounds around people for a reason. It's fucking 25 meters. This was willful negligance.
Seconded. They have no fucking case to let the bastards off the hook.
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Post by Kanastrous »

Rocky Mohsen?

I think Mohsen is a Persian name.

Oh, the irony.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

The marine should get everything he deserves. Hell, they should rename Pendleton after him by the time this is all over.
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Post by K. A. Pital »

Stu Segal? Is that a relative of Steven Segal?
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Post by PeZook »

That company was contracted to design a realistic excercise and didn't know a thing about using blanks that an armchair-general Internet nerd like me knows?!

Who the fuck gave these assholes that contract?
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Post by Julhelm »

Why the fuck does the US military hire private contractors, anyway? You'd think the most funded armed forces in the world would have that kind of expertise in-house.
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Post by Glocksman »

Edi wrote:
Cpl Kendall wrote:Sometimes accidents occur? There is a minimum safe distance for using blank rounds around people for a reason. It's fucking 25 meters. This was willful negligance.
Seconded. They have no fucking case to let the bastards off the hook.
Considering that there have been 2 people in Hollywood killed by blank rounds and numerous other injuries inflicted by blank firing weapons over the years, it was indeed fucking negligent on the company's part.

The danger blanks pose at close range is well known to anyone conversant with firearms.
In fact the only 'safe' way to use blanks in such a situation is by using low power (just enough power to cycle the action) blanks coupled with a barrel plug like this one.

And I put 'safe' in quotes because nothing involving pointing a firearm at someone is ever guaranteed to be 100% totally safe.
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Post by Aaron »

Glocksman wrote:
Considering that there have been 2 people in Hollywood killed by blank rounds and numerous other injuries inflicted by blank firing weapons over the years, it was indeed fucking negligent on the company's part.

The danger blanks pose at close range is well known to anyone conversant with firearms.
In fact the only 'safe' way to use blanks in such a situation is by using low power (just enough power to cycle the action) blanks coupled with a barrel plug like this one.

And I put 'safe' in quotes because nothing involving pointing a firearm at someone is ever guaranteed to be 100% totally safe.
All good points. That 25 metre minimum distance I mentioned, that's even with a BFA on the weapon. As the BFA can still come off and some residule power still makes it's way out of the barrel.
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Post by Psychic_Sandwich »

What the fuck? I only did two years of CCF, and even I know that you don't fire blanks directly at somebody inside 25 meters. A company that's paid to do this sort of thing should certainly know better, and make sure it's employees know better as well.

I hope they loose epic amounts of cash over this.
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Post by Aaron »

Cpl Kendall wrote:
All good points. That 25 metre minimum distance I mentioned, that's even with a BFA on the weapon. As the BFA can still come off and some residule power still makes it's way out of the barrel.
That should say "residule powder". Fucking shitty keyboard.
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Post by Kanastrous »

Julhelm wrote:Why the fuck does the US military hire private contractors, anyway? You'd think the most funded armed forces in the world would have that kind of expertise in-house.
It's an opportunity to shift money to hugely expensive weapons systems to pay off one set of political contributors, and to pay money for the 'private contractor training' to a different set of political contributors.
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Post by Aaron »

Julhelm wrote:Why the fuck does the US military hire private contractors, anyway? You'd think the most funded armed forces in the world would have that kind of expertise in-house.
One of our fellow Mess members could probably answer this better but I believe they've lost alot of expertise in the force draw down so they turn to contractors. But you'd think they'd have the skills required in the SF. That's who we turn to for this sort of thing.
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Post by The Spartan »

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Julhelm wrote:Why the fuck does the US military hire private contractors, anyway? You'd think the most funded armed forces in the world would have that kind of expertise in-house.
One of our fellow Mess members could probably answer this better but I believe they've lost alot of expertise in the force draw down so they turn to contractors. But you'd think they'd have the skills required in the SF. That's who we turn to for this sort of thing.
I thought Blackwater was made up of quite a few ex-SF guys?

Also, I've read recently that the government has handed out more than $100 million in bonus money to try to keep experienced operators in the service. MSNBC Link Take from that what you will.
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Post by Aaron »

The Spartan wrote:
I thought Blackwater was made up of quite a few ex-SF guys?
It is, a fair number in fact. But the bulk of Blackwater is just regular former soldiers. I've also heard that they take cops too but I have no source on that.
Also, I've read recently that the government has handed out more than $100 million in bonus money to try to keep experienced operators in the service. MSNBC Link Take from that what you will.
There's no doubt that the US military is having a retention problem. I would think that Blackwater would attract the more "unsavory" characters of the SF world.
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Post by Lonestar »

Julhelm wrote:Why the fuck does the US military hire private contractors, anyway? You'd think the most funded armed forces in the world would have that kind of expertise in-house.
Remember, we're also an entirely volunteer army. We(The DoD) have sought to reduce the number of support personnel it takes to support one combat serviceman. One way of doing this is through contractors(which outnumber US Troops in Iraq).

Now, I'm obviously a bit biased over the whole issue, but I think that on the whole "role-playing" and jobs that can be done by contractors and civil servicemembers outside of combat zones can and should be used to reduce the number of servicemen needed here in the States when they could be in Iraq doing combat-related duties.

Having said that, you'd think the company would have done a background check on the guy and said "aahhhh...no."
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Post by PainRack »

Julhelm wrote:Why the fuck does the US military hire private contractors, anyway? You'd think the most funded armed forces in the world would have that kind of expertise in-house.
Do you know why companies prefer to hire consultants and contracters? No tedious hiring and firing. Sign them up when you "need" their services, release them when service rendered is complete.

Using soldiers attached to training branch not only brings about PR and career advancement issues, you also can't easily cut them out when the need disappears, making them more costly in the long run.
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Post by dragon »

Glocksman wrote:
Edi wrote:
Cpl Kendall wrote:Sometimes accidents occur? There is a minimum safe distance for using blank rounds around people for a reason. It's fucking 25 meters. This was willful negligance.
Seconded. They have no fucking case to let the bastards off the hook.
Considering that there have been 2 people in Hollywood killed by blank rounds and numerous other injuries inflicted by blank firing weapons over the years, it was indeed fucking negligent on the company's part.

The danger blanks pose at close range is well known to anyone conversant with firearms.
In fact the only 'safe' way to use blanks in such a situation is by using low power (just enough power to cycle the action) blanks coupled with a barrel plug like this one.

And I put 'safe' in quotes because nothing involving pointing a firearm at someone is ever guaranteed to be 100% totally safe.
Hell these blank adapters are required for all army training no matter the case. Especially important when learning close quarters combat, which is fun. What I what to know is why the observers didn't stop him from doing it in the first place.
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Post by Sidewinder »

I seriously wonder where the hell the Marine instructors were when Mohsen was giving Klingler the beat down. Shouldn't they be able to tell the fucking difference between an "act" and an actual act of violence?
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
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Post by CmdrWilkens »

Sidewinder wrote:I seriously wonder where the hell the Marine instructors were when Mohsen was giving Klingler the beat down. Shouldn't they be able to tell the fucking difference between an "act" and an actual act of violence?
The physical assault may have been scripted much as SF training with capture and interrogation does include some physical harrasment. That part is understandable in that you can't say to a guy "pretend I'm slapping you" and give it anywhere near the same effect as actually slapping. Moreover properly applied hits will not cause permanent damage and can be mcuh more easily monitorred. A firearm is infinitely more dangerous and there is no reason at all for them to have even given the guy blanks unless he was scripted to shoot them into nearby furniture or otherwise use the sound as a tool.

Simply put the hits make sense within the context of the training the firearm does not and I have no idea why the observer didn't step in the second he heard the weapon discharge. That right there should see somebody stripped of rank or otherwise fucked over.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

ok, this makes my highschool aquaintance getting his leg broken for knocking up a 14 year old japanese girl look down right heroic.*

*yes, his fellow jarheads actually fractured his leg in more than one place, in addition to beating him generally. (and the girl in question was street legal under japanese law at the time too)


but still these hollywood, reality TV bastards need to be strung up. even more than Dennis deserved.
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