Master Chief vs an Ork

[Ender]

It's been established that a Space Marine can take the Halo Hero pretty easily, mainly due to the tech difference. But how does the man in green do against the greenest, meanest, toughest, and fightyest of them all, an Ork?

[DPDarkPrimus]

The Chief would have to be using heavy ordinance or explosives to take down an Orc - the battle rifles the UNSC uses aren't going to do shit to Dem Boyz.

[fgalkin]

Define "an Ork." One of Da Boyz? A Nob? A Warboss? What kind of wargear does the Ork have?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Covenant]

Even I would be able to frag one o' da' Boyz if'n oi had sum kind o' rokkit chucka'. The problem with the Orkz is that there's so fucking many of of them. They're extremely strong and durable, but not as strong and durable as a tank. Given the kind of weaponry the Master Chief is able to lug into combat--explosives or Miniguns--and given how atrociously pathetic your average Ork slugga's accuracy is, I think he'd have no trouble. Now, if we replace The Flood with Da' Boyz, then he's fucked and dead and going to have his helmet on a Bosspole right quick.

The Ork would probably beat him in an armwrestling contest, maybe, I think--how canon is his Jeep flipping nonsense? Regardless, Orkz are pretty disposable, except when they get into melee. Most things that Melee the master chief can mostly beat the shit out of him anyway, his real strength is at range, where Orkz are awful.

[The Grim Squeaker]

I'd bet on The MC at range as well as close up.
Orks are brutal close up, but they have been killed by normal humans (Bad-ass humans, but normal humans nonetheless using a hand-knife against a Boss for example). MC has his shields and far greater than human strength and speed, along with experience fighting foes that regard decapitation as more of an annoyance than a game-stopper.

Of course, put him up against one of the 3-4 meter tall War-bosses in the mecha-suits with built in rokit launchers, Flamas, and Big Teeff and he'd be stomped.

[Ritterin Sophia]

I'd bet on The MC at range as well as close up.
Orks are brutal close up, but they have been killed by normal humans (Bad-ass humans, but normal humans nonetheless using a hand-knife against a Boss for example). MC has his shields and far greater than human strength and speed, along with experience fighting foes that regard decapitation as more of an annoyance than a game-stopper.

Wait, didn't Connor or someone determine that baseline 40k Humans are much stronger than we are currently?

[Peptuck]

Da Boyz is pretty 'ard, but a lone Ork isn't a major threat. Ordinary humans, like Ciaphas Cain, have killed them in hand to hand combat before; the Master Chief is strong enough to kill humans in hand to hand combat without even trying, or punch humans in heavy powered battle armor a good distance away, and all of this is without armor.

Keep in mind that the Chief has killed plenty of enemies as dangerous as or more dangerous than regular Boyz; e.g. Brutes, Gold/Ultra Elites Hunters, and Pure Tank Flood. I'd equate an individual Ork to about the same level of durability as a Brute - they can eat lots of low-yield punishment, but they can be killed/incapacitated either through the application of enough dakka, or a well-placed hit to the head. And like Brutes, Orks love to get in close where they can apply pointy bladey weapons.

The heavier and more powerful Orks, on the other hand, might require more in the department of luck, heavy weapons, looted gear, and vehicles, and he's by no means guaranteed a win. The games and the novels have all made it clear that the Chief often wins only by the skin of his teeth.

[Peptuck]

I'd bet on The MC at range as well as close up.
Orks are brutal close up, but they have been killed by normal humans (Bad-ass humans, but normal humans nonetheless using a hand-knife against a Boss for example). MC has his shields and far greater than human strength and speed, along with experience fighting foes that regard decapitation as more of an annoyance than a game-stopper.

Wait, didn't Connor or someone determine that baseline 40k Humans are much stronger than we are currently?

I remembe rthat he determined that baseline 40k humans are a lot larger - the Tanith average was just under two meters, Volpone are bigger, and Bragg is fucking enourmous, towering over even the Volpone. Ciaphas Cain is also about two meters, but Amberley specifies that he is usually the tallest person of any particular group.

They must put something extra in those soylent viridians....

[Adrian Laguna]

They must put something extra in those soylent viridians....

It's possible the Emperor has done some warpy things. The 40k 'verse is a really nasty place and maybe some extra size and strength is one of those things that help humanity just barely scrape by as it's been doing for a while now.

[Covenant]

Here's a good question then, what's the weakest kind of Ork that it would take to mano e orko the Master Chief with a half-decent chance at victory? Your average boy may not, but how much glitz must we give these gitz before they're going to be proving that Green is Best only when it's Orky?

[Ritterin Sophia]

They must put something extra in those soylent viridians....

It's possible the Emperor has done some warpy things. The 40k 'verse is a really nasty place and maybe some extra size and strength is one of those things that help humanity just barely scrape by as it's been doing for a while now.

The simplest answer is probably natural selection, humans are no longer the top dogs and have actual competition in 40k, many times in combat, which means the fittest are more likely to come back alive. The Hives where most humans live are like giant ghettos. Then we have Death Worlds. Really, if there were a way to be rid of the Space Marines without endangering the Imperium without their combat prowess, I can only imagine that humans would be even stronger since the most physically fit of all humans aren't being removed from the gene pool.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Here's a good question then, what's the weakest kind of Ork that it would take to mano e orko the Master Chief with a half-decent chance at victory? Your average boy may not, but how much glitz must we give these gitz before they're going to be proving that Green is Best only when it's Orky?

I think considering Orks can be launched into a wall with enough force to crater it and merely knock the Ork out, one of da boyz has a decent chance.

[Peptuck]

Here's a good question then, what's the weakest kind of Ork that it would take to mano e orko the Master Chief with a half-decent chance at victory? Your average boy may not, but how much glitz must we give these gitz before they're going to be proving that Green is Best only when it's Orky?

I'd imagine a Nob or Warboss would have little trouble smashing the Chief in a straight fight, minus any vehicles. The Bigga Boyz are pretty much very large, very durable Hunters with a whole lot more dakka and choppy, and would probably eat any UNSC hardware short of a guass cannon or a Spartan Laser - and even then, they'd probably walk right through it and give the cheeky humie git a proper kicking.

[fgalkin]

Da Boyz is pretty 'ard, but a lone Ork isn't a major threat. Ordinary humans, like Ciaphas Cain, have killed them in hand to hand combat before; the Master Chief is strong enough to kill humans in hand to hand combat without even trying, or punch humans in heavy powered battle armor a good distance away, and all of this is without armor.

Ciaphas Cain is hardly "ordinary" given that he's killed a Warboss and several Chaos Space Marines in hand-to-hand combat. He is generally considered to be one of the best swordsmen in the galaxy.

Given that Orks are barely hurt by MJ-range weaponry, can drop hundreds of meters without any damage, can be launched into a wall and survive, even a single Boy is a formidable opponent to anyone not possessing 40k-grade weaponry.

A Kommando, 'Ardboy or a Nob will destroy Master Chief. A Warboss? Well, just look here to see how the fight will go.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Adrian Laguna]

The simplest answer is probably natural selection, humans are no longer the top dogs and have actual competition in 40k, many times in combat, which means the fittest are more likely to come back alive. The Hives where most humans live are like giant ghettos. Then we have Death Worlds. Really, if there were a way to be rid of the Space Marines without endangering the Imperium without their combat prowess, I can only imagine that humans would be even stronger since the most physically fit of all humans aren't being removed from the gene pool.

That's actually what I was thinking initially, but it didn't occur to me how exactly, combat isn't quite that prevalent. However, adding Hive worlds and some other nasty living environments, I can see it now. It's interesting to note that while modern humans tend to be taller than historical ones due to better nutrition, if you go back past the start of agriculture heights go back up. The time-scales are about right too, seeing as it is 38 thousand years into the future and things have been hell to one degree or another for most of it. Prior to the Great Crusade a good chunk of humanity was beholden to alien overlords if not outright slaves, IIRC.

[Ritterin Sophia]

That reminds me, there was a thread on this forum, which shall go unnamed, about MC Vs a Marine Scout, I remember this kid saying Brutes were like bigger, stronger, hairy Orkz and that MC could take on the best of the Adeptus Astartes. He later backpedalled when it was pointed out to him that the Adeptus Astartes currently has the most powerful active (As in moving around and capable of communication) psyker in the Imperium in the form of Chief Librarian Mephiston and his Chapter Master Dante has three-thousand years of combat experience, as well as the SM's having armour which allows them to be stepped on by 100m tall walking chapels of destruction and then get up unphased and continue fighting.

[white_rabbit]

I'd bet on The MC at range as well as close up.
Orks are brutal close up, but they have been killed by normal humans (Bad-ass humans, but normal humans nonetheless using a hand-knife against a Boss for example). MC has his shields and far greater than human strength and speed, along with experience fighting foes that regard decapitation as more of an annoyance than a game-stopper.

Wait, didn't Connor or someone determine that baseline 40k Humans are much stronger than we are currently?

I think its an error to assume that based off the meagre sample we have that "baseline" 40k humans are all hugetastically stronger and bigger than we are, or even slightly so.

With 40k years and probably quadrillions of humans in possibly millions of different environments (hive world densities and Imperium terra forming might alter the sample a little) you simply can't make that judgement.

It is likely, indeed, explicitly described in some instances that the Imperial guard includes physically enhanced individuals, people from variable gravity environments, survival of the fittest deathworlds etc etc, and its even more likely that large, powerful individuals will be recruited into the PDF or Imperial Guard, but these big fellows are usually standouts, they aren't the "average" Guardsmen, even when you can have an entire regiment of big lads.

The "average" guardsmen is likely to be physically fit, but he's also likely to get fucking slaughtered by your average ork in hand to hand, and the "wussier" sampling of Orks are more likely to prefer lots of gunz anyway.

Chapter Master Dante has three-thousand years of combat experience,

This is what I meant when I pointed out in that thread that you often don't know what you are fucking talking about.


As far as chief versus an ork goes, he could probably shoot one to death, he can run real fast, and he's supposedly a very good shot. Against a single ork with a choppa and some sort of pistol, or a bolter/stubber hybrid weapon, he can very likely wear an ork down with the human halo small arms, or kill it with a rocket launcher. With a bolter or lasgun, he could probably kick its arse quite convincingly.

That said, theres a Necromunda story with an ork in, and its basically like dumping a mini-hulk in there, it rampages through the underhive for a while, soaks up stubber fire and generally causes a lot of angst for a single beastie, IIRC, its literally one ork>>a gang of Hive types armed with autoguns and so forth.


In hand to hand, orks are strong and fairly fast, and classically, aim for the joints in armour. MC has got some pretty gaping spaces in his armour, so its going to be a one hit kill for the ork.

, MC would probably win against the average boyz if he had a bladed weapon, halo or 40k, blunt force trauma with a gun isn't particularly a good idea though, Orks have enourmously thick and strong bones, and stoving their ribcage in is basically a waste of time.

Bigger orks are basically going to be like fighting hunters without handy bright orange targets, they can be stupidly resilient, carry heavy bolters like pistols, and in one case, literally bite the face off a space marine through his bloody helmet.

[Cykeisme]

From what I know, the average Spartan II would have to be at least somewhat better than a top Storm Trooper or Kasrkin with bionics and gene enhancement.. somewhere in between that and a regular Space Marine.
Unfortunately, still likely much closer to the former than the latter, though.

That said, theres a Necromunda story with an ork in, and its basically like dumping a mini-hulk in there, it rampages through the underhive for a while, soaks up stubber fire and generally causes a lot of angst for a single beastie, IIRC, its literally one ork>>a gang of Hive types armed with autoguns and so forth.

Where'd this story appear? Anywhere accessible online?

[andrewgpaul]

Chapter Master Dante has three-thousand years of combat experience, as well as the SM's having armour which allows them to be stepped on by 100m tall walking chapels of destruction and then get up unphased and continue fighting.

1,100 years, actually.

Oh, and can you supply a quote for that "Space Marines being trodden on by Titans and surviving" thing?

[Teleros]

It was one of those little flavour text things in the Codex IIRC... a Wolf Guard is stepped on by a titan and survives, although his terminator suit is in poor shape and he's suffered some injuries.

[Ryan Thunder]

A suit of Terminator armour is a far cry from the regular Power Armour worn by your "average" (for lack of a better word) Astartes.

That said, Power armour's nothing to sneeze at, either, what with rendering the wearer nearly immune to lasfire...

[Teleros]

Well that's the only episode of a Marine surviving a titan stepping on it that I can remember - there may be others, but I'm not sure .

[andrewgpaul]

The only other reference I can remember is quite old-school; Space Marine, 1st edition mentions a Titan (either a Warlord or a Warhound) stepping on some Marines. The phrase "over-ripe fruit" was used

[andrewgpaul]

addendum; the surface the Marines and Titan are standing on is probably relevant; fighting in mud, the Marines may only get pressed into it, whereas on rock, they go "splat".

[Lancer]

Ceramite can easily pulverize rock (as in crush it into dust, ref: Space Wolf). I imagine that a Space Marine would have to be standing on one of the 40k materials like Ferrocrete, or have his armor already compromised for it to give before the ground does.