Bolo Balls

[Xon]

It's a Bolo. You need something horrifyingly overpowered.

N-Forms are the type of "ground troups" when you want to annihilate Culture orbitals from the inside with raw force.

The word "overkill" comes to mind (even against the Culture)

[Ford Prefect]

As NL said, Effectors, CAMs, weird shit etc' should work. It could probably just go in through a seam (a few atoms wide, considering culture tech has molecule level ARTWORK) and turn the inside of the Bolo into a charnel-house (of electronics).

Prove this. Right now. I know the Culture can do it, but I have no reason to believe that something this small can. A ship from the Culture could do it with no head, but E-dust and Drones are not ships. They are not capable of the same things.

Also, late model Bolos have energy shields.

Lets ignore the fact that Kiloton level pistols are considered utterly unsuitable for combat use even by civilians and are hopelessly out of date (Short story from "The State of the Art". Said contraband is used to shoot down a spacecraft in the atmosphere).

So how much energy can a drone put out with its in-built CREWS? It's going to have to be above tens of megatons a second to have any chance of even worrying a late model Bolo.

Energy per "inch" is a rather important point, Culture CAMs are lasers

CAM is an explosive.

and are apparently hideously accurate, a few megatons of energy focused on a micro-inch circle would probably be more effective than a fireball over the whole tank.

Even assuming you put an inch wide hole through the entire length of the Bolo, that's not going to kill one. They're the size of battleships. I'm not even sure they have an exploitable location that you could shoot them to take them out in one fell swoop. Redundancy, and all that.

There is also the fact that the Bolo's Flak would be rather ineffective against anything but the most crude, non-sentient knife missiles.

What the hell is a knife missile going to do to the battleship sized tank with the energy shields?

Again though, non of this is relevant due to the overwhelming advantage of effectors.

Which might not even work: again, a Drone or FYT suit is NOT an ROU. Bolos have effector equivalents.

No reason to think he should do that, whereveer did you get that idea of a trick from? .

Are you stupid? Ordinance delivered by wormhole is a favoured weapon of the Culture.

But they do carry a lot of nasty gizmos, and maneuver at multi-mach speeds inside tight corridors when heavily damaged, while carrying a variety of weaponry.

And which one of these gizmos can kill a Bolo capable of dishing out tens of megatons a second, accurately hit objects moving in orbit (IE. hypersonic objects). Prove they carry CAM, and we're done.

[Uraniun235]

Hrm...would a Titan or one of those crazy Ad Mech superduperplatforms be enough to take a Bolo?

IIRC this has been discussed before; the answer is yes, in the case of the bigger Titans, because they have Void Shields. As for the Ordinatus weapons ( I believe that's the name ), I think the verdict was that they have the firepower but are likely too clumsy to bring it to bear.

Void shields can be overwhelmed with sufficient firepower.

[Teleros]

Yes but do the Bolos have sufficient firepower?

[Admiral Valdemar]

The main weapons of the Mk. XXXIII put out 15 megatonnes a second, that's discounting any added fire from the secondary Hellbore repeaters, point-defence lasers, railguns and VLS/howitzer/mortar rounds.

[Enigma]

The main weapons of the Mk. XXXIII put out 15 megatonnes a second, that's discounting any added fire from the secondary Hellbore repeaters, point-defence lasers, railguns and VLS/howitzer/mortar rounds.

But that is per barrel? Doesn't Bolos have more than one Hellbore?

[[R_H]]

If I'm not mistaken, they have a bunch of primary and secondary Hellbores (if I remember correctly, they're differentiated between them according to barrel diameter).

Slight threadjack, does anyone know of any good Bolo fanfics?

[andrewgpaul]

Not that I'd object to seeing the thing in action on people I don't like...

But it seems pretty much like a swiss-army wank tank. At least that's what I got from the short amount of stuff I found. Didn't notice if they'd actually lost any, or to what...

I suppose if the books are actually entertaining...

One Bolo novel (not written by Keith Laumer) features a late-model Bolo tasked to destroy the headquarters of a rebel group. En route, it's path is blocked by a 9-year old girl, and it finds itself unable to get past her. The rest of the book deals with why this should be the case, intersperes with flashbacks to its history, and the history of its former crew (who turn out to be leading the rebellion - against a totalitarian government.
The intro to one of the Bolo short stories on the Baen.com website features the prototype self-aware Bolo, apparently built without all the 'safety' features of later models, abandoned for 70 years in a warehouse on a backwater planet.

[SylasGaunt]

But that is per barrel? Doesn't Bolos have more than one Hellbore?

No, it's 5 megatons/sec per barrel or if it's the variant from Bolo Rising you'll have 6 megatons/shot per barrel.

[Admiral Valdemar]

But that is per barrel? Doesn't Bolos have more than one Hellbore?

As Sylas states, this is total output from the three main, single barrelled Hellbore turrets on a standard Mk. XXXIII. The Hecate model has a slightly higher output.

[Luzifer's right hand]

The only thing that really jumps to mind is infantry from Perry Rhodan, with their funky transdimensional barriers and cannons.

What are the stats of a high end Bolo?

The weapons on Bolos should be able to kill most SERUN-suits commonly used by humans.
It's known that 20th century technology level tactical nukes are no threat to SERUNs which seem to suggest that strategic nuke level firepower is good enough.. unless it's some crazy high end shit like the Norminator-suit which can survive inside a 1TT detonation...

From the info posted in this thread Perryverse infantry energy weapons are way too weak as the DET part tops out in the ton TNT equivalent range. After all there is no reason to assume the that technoabble part works against battle-screens as well as against Perryverse shields.
Matter disintegration weapons should be stopped by those battle-screens.
Micro-missiles go from the kg TNT equivalent range to the triple digit MT range. Mortars were only used once in the series IIRC with 30 MT warheads. The questions is can a Bolo shot them down?
Weapons which teleport warheads around are very rarely seen in the hands of infantry. But I read somewhere that Bolos got internal shielding?
Are they protected against weapons which shatter objects with gravity-shocks?
There are also technobabble weapons which shatter objects with mechanical force(think projected forcefields which shatter things).

How good are Bolos at detecting objects stealthed against low-tech sensors?
With low-tech I mean things which work in the infrared/visible spectrum and Radar.
(I'm assuming Perryverse human tech here).


Aren't Culture combat drones more battle robots than infantry?
Titans are certainly not infantry...

[SylasGaunt]

What are the stats of a high end Bolo?

3x 200 cm. Hellbores (5 megatons/sec each)

14x 20 cm Hellbore infinite repeaters or 16x 30 cm Hellbore infinite repeaters depending on variant (an infinite repeater is classified as a rapid fire secondary weapon with anti-armor capability). Output is in the hundreds of kilotons/sec range and depends on which model you've got mounting them.

4x 240 cm. Howitzers (variable payload rounds 2 round/sec rate of fire and yes you are reading that right).

10x 40 cm. Mortars (again variable payloads)

Heavy VLS system (Unknown number of cells and reloads but it's noted that the 'heavy' designation refers to missile numbers not the size of the missiles). Payloads range from multi-megaton nuclear warheads to strontium clad planet-killers (as it rendering it uninhabitable by poisoning the environment, not a planet buster), to Battleview missiles which scatter hundreds of contra-grav supported sensor drones around the battlefield. It can pump them out fast to as a non-heavy VLS equipped Bolo was capable of spamming out several hundreds missiles in under 2 minutes.

For anti-infantry work and point defense it's equipped with 12 25 megajoule lasers and an unknown number of flechette dischargers (railguns that shotgun out 500 DU slivers at 3 kilometers/sec with each firing). The infinite repeaters have been known to function as a tertiary point defense as well.

In addition it's defended by battlescreens, heavy armor, and internal disruptor screens to help compartmentalize any armor breaches.

Road (though the definition of a road for a Bolo is very loose) speed of 110 kph though it's capable of planetary landing as well as hovering or flight at ~500 kph through use of it's internal contra-grav though it can't run its battlescreens at the same time.

In addition Mk. 33s have been known to carry AI controlled Dragon tank drones and Wyvern scout flyers. Armament on the second is unknown but IIRC the Dragon carries a hellbore of a caliber sufficient it should be able to engage targets in orbit. There are techspiders aboard to affect self-repairs on the machine.

[Ford Prefect]

The weapons on Bolos should be able to kill most SERUN-suits commonly used by humans.
It's known that 20th century technology level tactical nukes are no threat to SERUNs which seem to suggest that strategic nuke level firepower is good enough.. unless it's some crazy high end shit like the Norminator-suit which can survive inside a 1TT detonation...

My knowledge of Perryverse hardware doesn't really extend past the TARA combat robots; which as I understand are fairly ludicrous.

Are they protected against weapons which shatter objects with gravity-shocks?

Bolos do have some form of anti-gravity device, but I doubt they could use it in any sort of defensive manner, excluding moving out of the way.

How good are Bolos at detecting objects stealthed against low-tech sensors?
With low-tech I mean things which work in the infrared/visible spectrum and Radar.

I'm pretty sure that Bolos have some pretty impressive electronic warfare capabilities; though Sylas could probably actually tell us what those capabilities are (when I think Bolo, I tend to think of their rather noble personalities before anything else).

Aren't Culture combat drones more battle robots than infantry?

They are the Culture equivalent of infantry. I don't see why we should limit 'infantry' to being squishes in armour or witohut.

[SylasGaunt]

I'm pretty sure that Bolos have some pretty impressive electronic warfare capabilities; though Sylas could probably actually tell us what those capabilities are (when I think Bolo, I tend to think of their rather noble personalities before anything else).

They do lots of EW, datanet hacking, etc. IIRC there's one story with a specialized Bolo equipped with an almost effector-like device utterly raping the computer system of an alien fleet light years away within an extremely short time.

Blinding a bolo is also easier said than done given the way they can detect everything from gravitational anomalies to seismic shocks.

[Ford Prefect]

IIRC there's one story with a specialized Bolo equipped with an almost effector-like device utterly raping the computer system of an alien fleet light years away within an extremely short time.

Ah, this is the thing I was talking about earlier; however, you say the Bolo carrying it is specialised in nature? In which case for NL and Death, I concede the point about Drones, as not every late model Bolo appears to carry such a device.

[Black Admiral]

Ah, this is the thing I was talking about earlier; however, you say the Bolo carrying it is specialised in nature?

The Kloude Chamber is the device in question; it's carried by e-variant Mk. 32s. Not widely used in light of the fact that it's easy to jam, although it's a very nasty surprise for anyone that's not aware of it.

I'll try and locate some more exact information; sure I've got my copy of book 4 around here somewhere.

[Luzifer's right hand]

My knowledge of Perryverse hardware doesn't really extend past the TARA combat robots; which as I understand are fairly ludicrous.

Some versions like the TARA V UH are smaller the most humans but that does not mean that they are in the same ballpark as "infantry".
TARAs are generally comparable as vehicles when it comes to combat capability.

Bolos do have some form of anti-gravity device, but I doubt they could use it in any sort of defensive manner, excluding moving out of the way.

I'm asking because most gravity based weapons from the Perryverse only have a limited area of effect and are sometimes used to avoid collateral damage. Inside spaceships for example.

They are the Culture equivalent of infantry. I don't see why we should limit 'infantry' to being squishes in armour or witohut.

In the Perryverse robots tend to outnumber "squishes" and tend do the stuff infantry does in real-life. Squishes outside vehicles without robot support are more for small away team missions.

They do lots of EW, datanet hacking, etc. IIRC there's one story with a specialized Bolo equipped with an almost effector-like device utterly raping the computer system of an alien fleet light years away within an extremely short time.

Blinding a bolo is also easier said than done given the way they can detect everything from gravitational anomalies to seismic shocks.

Seismic detection would not work as Perryverse infantry tends to fly.
Gravity based detection would certainly work however.

Human Infantry should be able to take such a MK.33 Bolo out if they avoid entering the range of it's heavy LOS weapons
However despite that the tank is too slow to catch them it still has a huge number of non-LOS weapons and they would need to hit it with fusion/gravity-bomb micro-missiles(or with teleport weapons) quickly before they are carpet nuked.
While tanks have been shown to shot missiles down I can't remember an issue in which soldiers in combat suits did something like that.

[SylasGaunt]

Bolos frequently shoot down incoming fire by the way, both ballistic, missile, and ortillery.

For instance in Bolo Rising we see Clacker battler ships attempting a saturation bombardment of his position with big mass drivers firing asteroids. He's bullseyeing them at thousands of kilometers and having to manufacture ammunition while he did it.. oh and he had a clacker device sabotaging his power feeds and attempting to overload his reactor while this was going on.

Furthermore we know that the missiles bolos carry are capable of striking targets on the opposite side of a planet from them, and can even be set to loiter in atmosphere in hunter-killer mode and fry anything that matches a target profile.

Seismic detection would not work as Perryverse infantry tends to fly.
Gravity based detection would certainly work however.

There's also the usual visual, IR, EM, etc.

[SylasGaunt]

Heh, and a quick run through the old posts on the forums reminded me of Ziggy. Gets blown out of his transport, used his main guns to propel himself through space and blow the hell out of an enemy command ship, and then dropped himself as a kinetic strike on an enemy troop column.

[Ford Prefect]

Some versions like the TARA V UH are smaller the most humans but that does not mean that they are in the same ballpark as "infantry".
TARAs are generally comparable as vehicles when it comes to combat capability.

'Infantry' is more of a role than anything; to give an example, even a two ton weapons platform could technically be 'infantry', assuming that is the role it plays. You mention below that combat robots are more common than organics on the battlefield, and some do perform infantry similar tasks. The TARA V UH is a robot I've heard cited as being quite capable of killing a Bolo, but it is dependant on whether they are infantry equivalent - I understand that the Perryverse is very ... broad.

Heh, and a quick run through the old posts on the forums reminded me of Ziggy. Gets blown out of his transport, used his main guns to propel himself through space and blow the hell out of an enemy command ship, and then dropped himself as a kinetic strike on an enemy troop column.

Bolos are nothing if not heroic. How is their programming described again? I remember it being something along the lines of 'knightly'.

[Luzifer's right hand]

Bolos frequently shoot down incoming fire by the way, both ballistic, missile, and ortillery.

For instance in Bolo Rising we see Clacker battler ships attempting a saturation bombardment of his position with big mass drivers firing asteroids. He's bullseyeing them at thousands of kilometers and having to manufacture ammunition while he did it.. oh and he had a clacker device sabotaging his power feeds and attempting to overload his reactor while this was going on.
Furthermore we know that the missiles bolos carry are capable of striking targets on the opposite side of a planet from them, and can even be set to loiter in atmosphere in hunter-killer mode and fry anything that matches a target profile.

There is a difference between Asteroids and micro-missiles. There are toothpick sized ones with 1 Kt warheads and 500 MT versions are in the 15 cm range.
I doubt a Bolo would even try to intercept something that small.
I'm not saying it would be an easy fight.

There's also the usual visual, IR, EM, etc.

As I wrote before Perryverse Combat-suits are in general stealthed against IR, visual and Rader, and a lot of Perryverse 5D stuff of course.

'Infantry' is more of a role than anything; to give an example, even a two ton weapons platform could technically be 'infantry', assuming that is the role it plays. You mention below that combat robots are more common than organics on the battlefield, and some do perform infantry similar tasks. The TARA V UH is a robot I've heard cited as being quite capable of killing a Bolo, but it is dependant on whether they are infantry equivalent - I understand that the Perryverse is very ... broad.

The TARA series is the most heavily armed robot class used by the Terrans in the Perryverse.
They are used to board space-ships/stations and attack bases(and the other way round), guard important facilities, they are used as prison guards for dangerous psi-users, they are often the first to make planetfall together with flying tanks when a planet is attacked, they engage vehicles and in a few cases even spaceships.
They are swiss army knife style robots and often vastly over-armed for what they do, there was even once a in-universe comment that a TARA would destroy the facility it guards and blow a nice hole into the plant if it used a maximum yield warhead(100 GT in that case).
There are humanoid robots which are better suited for peacekeeping and police stuff.

The series is not ground-combat heavy apart from small scale away-team stuff. Few big ground battles are mentioned in the series and those are not very detailed.
The large ground units mentioned in the series have more robots than soldiers.
Here the date for a ground units we know more about(but not even the name...) it consists of 10000 battlerobots and 200 medic-robots, 1000 soldiers with 150 transfromcannon-armed flying tanks, 75 mobile ground-to-air missile-batteries, 12 heavy flying transformcannons(I do not even want to think about those things as you can fit GT range ones into robots...) and 30 ambulance vehicles.

Most of the time I just mention Terran-tech level stuff. I mean a person with a combat suit which can be used to destroy whole star systems is hardly infantry...

[SylasGaunt]

Bolos are nothing if not heroic. How is their programming described again? I remember it being something along the lines of 'knightly'.

Appropriate since one did get knighted.

[Connor MacLeod]

Bolos sound alot like what Dale Brown would write for tanks if he didn't have such a hardon for B-52's.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Starfire Arachnids might be able to manage it. They consider it a perfectly reasonable tactic to overwhelm an enemy's point defense with massive amounts of infantry fired nuclear weapons. With enough missles they could get lucky and score a direct hit. And by Arachnid standards, if they kill the Bolo and it vaporizes their army before the missles that kill it hit, that's a win.

[SylasGaunt]

They'd need more infantry than we've ever heard of them using for it to work. Remember the Bolo can move at over 100 kph without using its contragrav and it can engage the mfrom the other side of the planet if need be for as long as its missiles hold out.