Turkey to Vote on Military Action in Iraq

[Sidewinder]

Probably Iran and the US. George Bush can't let Iran get away before his term ends next year.

Considering the US still can't get out of the clusterfuck that is Iraq, I doubt anything can be done about Iran, unless the use of nukes is authorized... at least, anything within the next 12 years, while the US military recovers from the ass-raping of its human and material resources.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

I don't know what's with all the hate against Turkey. Turkey has much more right to go into Iraq than we ever did.

The Kurds are regarded as second class citizens if I am not wrong. Not Turkish enough.

Only ones who try to stick with 'Kurdish culture' and heritage. Ataturk banned the use of any ethnic terms in the state, since he believed that everyone in Turkey, whatever their race, was an equal Turkish citizen under the law.

[Psychic_Sandwich]

Well, the Turkish parliament has given their permission

Turkey's parliament has given permission for the government to launch military operations into Iraq in pursuit of Kurdish rebels.

The vote was taken in defiance of pressure from the US and Iraq, which have called on Turkey for restraint.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said the motion does not mean a military operation is imminent.

But he said Turkey needed to be able to respond to a recent rise in bomb attacks blamed on PKK rebels from Iraq.

Turkish MPs backed him overwhelmingly, by 507 votes to 19.

As the vote was being counted, US President George W Bush strongly urged Turkey, a key ally, not to carry out the threatened action.

He said Washington was "making it clear to Turkey it is not in their interest to send more troops in... there is a better way to deal with the issue".

The recent deaths of 13 Turkish soldiers in an ambush blamed on the PKK has put the government under renewed pressure to respond with force.

What Turkey wants now is a convincing response from allies and neighbours, says the BBC's Sarah Rainsford in Ankara.

Turkey has been calling for help in tackling the PKK for months. Now it hopes the rest of the world will realise it is serious, our correspondent says.

'Illegal'

But the US and Iraq fear any incursion could destabilise the only relatively calm region of Iraq.

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki phoned the Turkish prime minister before the vote, saying he was "absolutely determined" to remove the PKK from Iraq and pleading for more time, according to Turkey's Anatolia news agency.

Iraqi President Jalal Talabani, an ethnic Kurd, urged Turkey not to make an incursion, but also called on the PKK "to end the so-called military activity".

The autonomous Kurdish regional government in northern Iraq warned Turkish MPs that any intervention would be "illegal". It has denied providing the PKK with any help.

The rebels themselves said they would meet force with force.

The chief of the PKK's executive council, Murat Karayilan, told the Kurdish Hawlati newspaper: "Thousands of PKK guerrillas are on standby to fight Turkish army forces."

However Syrian President Bashar Assad, visiting Turkey, said he supported the country's right to take the action "against terrorism and terrorist activities".

Armenian question

President Bush, speaking during a press conference, criticised the US Congress for jeopardising US relations with Turkey with a planned vote to recognise the mass killing of Armenians in Ottoman times as genocide.

"One thing Congress should not be doing is sorting out the historical record of the Ottoman Empire," he said.

Although a congressional committee has supported the motion, its chances of passing a full vote appear to be waning.

Key Democrats in the US House of Representatives have joined Republicans to warn that US strategic interests could be damaged by the largely symbolic resolution.

[ArmorPierce]

I don't know what's with all the hate against Turkey. Turkey has much more right to go into Iraq than we ever did.

The Kurds are regarded as second class citizens if I am not wrong. Not Turkish enough.

Well for several decades the turks tried to forcefully integrate the Kurdish people refusing to acknowledge them as anything but mountain Turks themselves. The Kurds have been attempting to revolt since before this attempt at forced integration. Unless you consider forced integration to be second class citizen (which is no longer practiced).

[ArmorPierce]

Personally, I think that all this bashing of the Turks as of late is due to the confusion between the issues of the supposed Armenian Genocide and Kurds. In fact, a lot of the Armenians that were killed and murdered were perpetuated by Kurds.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Personally, I think that all this bashing of the Turks as of late is due to the confusion between the issues of the supposed Armenian Genocide and Kurds. In fact, a lot of the Armenians that were killed and murdered were perpetuated by Kurds.

I think we need more enlightenment then, followed by negotiations between the Turks and Kurds to avoid a needless war.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Personally, I think that all this bashing of the Turks as of late is due to the confusion between the issues of the supposed Armenian Genocide and Kurds. In fact, a lot of the Armenians that were killed and murdered were perpetuated by Kurds.

And who asked the Kurds to point the gun?

You do realise that it is ridiculous for a government to allow someone indulge in a wanton rampage across the provinces of this magnitude?

Well for several decades the turks tried to forcefully integrate the Kurdish people refusing to acknowledge them as anything but mountain Turks themselves. The Kurds have been attempting to revolt since before this attempt at forced integration. Unless you consider forced integration to be second class citizen (which is no longer practiced).

And what do you mean by forced integration here? A denial of the use of their own language? You are talking about a heavily xenophobic race here you know.

[MKSheppard]

Should be fun if we get the first combat deployment of the F-22 out of this.

[Lonestar]

Only one thing left to do now.


As soon as Turkish forces enter Iraq, withdraw our military to Kuwait and act like nothing has happened. Accuse them of needing to stay the course because they started a civil war.

[J]

Only one thing left to do now.

Yep, buy lots of oil futures and Exxon-Mobil shares.

[Kanastrous]

Should be fun if we get the first combat deployment of the F-22 out of this.

Against THK F-16 Block50s and F-4E 2020s?

Poor Raptor pilots.

They'll be so bored.

[Maraxus]

And what do you mean by forced integration here? A denial of the use of their own language? You are talking about a heavily xenophobic race here you know.

From what I understand, the kind of "Forced Integration" that the Turks used on the Kurds is rather akin to the "Forced Assimilation" policy that the US had against the Native Americans during the turn of the century. Kurdish ethnic identity didn't really exist, Kurdish language was forbidden, a lot of the Kurdish customs were outlawed, and they were considered "Mountain Turks" rather than Kurds.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

And what do you mean by forced integration here? A denial of the use of their own language? You are talking about a heavily xenophobic race here you know.

From what I understand, the kind of "Forced Integration" that the Turks used on the Kurds is rather akin to the "Forced Assimilation" policy that the US had against the Native Americans during the turn of the century. Kurdish ethnic identity didn't really exist, Kurdish language was forbidden, a lot of the Kurdish customs were outlawed, and they were considered "Mountain Turks" rather than Kurds.

Precisely. It is little wonder that this situation is a mirror image of the US vs the Native Americans back a few centuries ago. This sort of rebellions have happened repeatedly in history because of the said government employed policies that alienated that ethnic group in question.

[Crown]

Precisely. It is little wonder that this situation is a mirror image of the US vs the Native Americans back a few centuries ago. This sort of rebellions have happened repeatedly in history because of the said government employed policies that alienated that ethnic group in question.

I think trying to 'eliminate' the ethnic group in question would be a better phrase (and I don't mean a mass slaughter just to clarify). This is going to sound extremely odd coming from me; but I actually sympathise with Turkey on this issue right now. The PKK have used the political situation in Northern Iraq in an attempt to play 'real-politik', but have gone about it in typical idiotic right wing fashion that will set up a collision course between Turkey, the Iraqi Kurds and big brother US of A. They're going to get their fingers burned in my opinion, and I can't draw up too much sympathy for them to be honest.

[ArmorPierce]

And who asked the Kurds to point the gun?

You do realise that it is ridiculous for a government to allow someone indulge in a wanton rampage across the provinces of this magnitude?

Well they didn't tell them to do it. At most they are guilty of fostering an environment which allowed this sort of thing to happen but to be fair, they were in the middle of a war and perhaps didn't have the man power to quell it when they had more pressing manners in their view.

And what do you mean by forced integration here? A denial of the use of their own language? You are talking about a heavily xenophobic race here you know.

Yes suppression of language and cultural identity and classifying them as mountain turks. I don't know exactly what you think by the term xenophobic here. They are extremely nationalistic, I'll give you that but Turks themselves do differ vastly in physical features running the gambit from blonde hair and green eyes to more mongoloid looking features. They are very willing to stretch the definition of who is turk and just who fits under it.

[ArmorPierce]

Precisely. It is little wonder that this situation is a mirror image of the US vs the Native Americans back a few centuries ago.

It is not. The American government actively pushed native americans outside of society and actively massacred them with both weapons and the use of bio weapons (smallpox ridden blankets that were knowingly given to them to infect them). There was no attempt to integrate the native populations until the 20th century, in fact the opposite was true. The Cherokee whom were pretty much fully integrated into society was forced into the trail of tears for example and into a reservation far away. He was referring to the attempt to integrate the native american population in the first half of the 20th century, not the centuries of genocide before hand.

This sort of rebellions have happened repeatedly in history because of the said government employed policies that alienated that ethnic group in question.

What are they currently doing that they should do different in that case? Spain and Ireland are other countries that have problems with terrorist separatist groups such as Spain and Ireland.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Well they didn't tell them to do it. At most they are guilty of fostering an environment which allowed this sort of thing to happen but to be fair, they were in the middle of a war and perhaps didn't have the man power to quell it when they had more pressing manners in their view.

What the fuck are talking about? This is as good as saying, the police station is here, and then someone right in front of the police station is busy piling dead bodies there and no one investigates? This is practically tacit approval for their actions.

Mind you, the Armenians aren't the only victims of bloody xenophobic nonsense. The Greek population in Istanbul in very recent times due a pogrom in 1950s. Go read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_Pogrom

Yes suppression of language and cultural identity and classifying them as mountain turks. I don't know exactly what you think by the term xenophobic here. They are extremely nationalistic, I'll give you that but Turks themselves do differ vastly in physical features running the gambit from blonde hair and green eyes to more mongoloid looking features. They are very willing to stretch the definition of who is turk and just who fits under it.

And you think it is fine to suppress and ban someone's culture? What the fuck are you thinking about? Did that line even go through your head? Nationalism and xenophobia practically went hand in hand here when it took on racial aspects.

It is not. The American government actively pushed native americans outside of society and actively massacred them with both weapons and the use of bio weapons (smallpox ridden blankets that were knowingly given to them to infect them). There was no attempt to integrate the native populations until the 20th century, in fact the opposite was true. The Cherokee whom were pretty much fully integrated into society was forced into the trail of tears for example and into a reservation far away. He was referring to the attempt to integrate the native american population in the first half of the 20th century, not the centuries of genocide before hand.

Aside from the technicalities, does it change the fact that this is a suppression of an ethnic group?

What are they currently doing that they should do different in that case? Spain and Ireland are other countries that have problems with terrorist separatist groups such as Spain and Ireland.

Ireland? Hah.. that is a textbook example of an alienated ethnic group that broke away successfully.

[K. A. Pital]

Turkish army actively deploying en masse along the Iraqi border. Armor convoys with helicopter support are moving to the border from their stationary location.

Special forces meanwhile continue their raid into Iraq with Shirnak, Hakkyari and Siirt provingce triangle, looking to attack a 500-men strong Kurd separatist force.

US helicopter patrolling of the northern border intensified.

[Battlehymn Republic]

This bores me. I send my Third Echelon operative on a Special Mission to Tehran to assassinate a few random scholars, I have Rainbow bust a secret joint Veneuzlan-Cuban effort to ferry arms to Gaza, and then I launch a nuke at Russia just for the hell of it.

Next turn.

[Darth Wong]

Only one thing left to do now.


As soon as Turkish forces enter Iraq, withdraw our military to Kuwait and act like nothing has happened. Accuse them of needing to stay the course because they started a civil war.

Something tells me the Turks will have more specific and narrow strategic goals in mind, rather than some grandiose megalomaniac plan of transforming the entire Middle East.