Bolo Balls

[Starglider]

Bolos sound alot like what Dale Brown would write for tanks if he didn't have such a hardon for B-52's.

Actually since the late 90s it's all been about B-1s (stupidly upgraded of course). He doesn't write much about the B-2, probably because its missions are so undramatic (either they don't see you and you're fine, or they do see you and you're dead).

[Admiral Valdemar]

The Clacker Mobile Bastion is probably Dale Brown. A heavy freight starship-cum-moving-fortress the same size as an ISD is just insane.

[Lord of the Abyss]

They'd need more infantry than we've ever heard of them using for it to work. Remember the Bolo can move at over 100 kph without using its contragrav and it can engage the mfrom the other side of the planet if need be for as long as its missiles hold out.

On the other hand, we haven't seen the kind of infanty they'd field on a full strength fully colonized planet; only occupation forces and leftovers whittled down by orbital KISS strikes.

[SylasGaunt]

Which still doesn't change the fact that they don't have weapons that can engage the Bolo at it's own range, they aren't fast enough to catch it, and it can fry horrid amounts of them just by firing a hellbore over their heads. Unless they've got so many troops the bolo can't kill them fast enough to drive through in all directions they have no way of bringing it to battle. Even then it could duck into an ocean and re-emerge elsewhere to continue the attack.

[Beowulf]

Late mark Bolos have energy shields. Unless your infantry fire strategic yield nuclear weapons, you're probably not going to manage to get through the battle screens. Also, late mark Bolos have stupidly large numbers of point defense weapons.

Bolos aren't what Dale Brown would write if he wrote about tanks because Bolos die. Often. Once you get towards the chronological end of the series, there's only a handful left.

[Ryan Thunder]

Late mark Bolos have energy shields. Unless your infantry fire strategic yield nuclear weapons, you're probably not going to manage to get through the battle screens. Also, late mark Bolos have stupidly large numbers of point defense weapons.

Bolos aren't what Dale Brown would write if he wrote about tanks because Bolos die. Often. Once you get towards the chronological end of the series, there's only a handful left.

So let me get this straight; he designs the ultimate wank-tanks that can utterly plaster anything and then kills them off with... what?

[Admiral Valdemar]

With amassed forces and bigger enemies with more resources. Bolos more often than not die in suicidal missions against the odds, egged on by their chivalrous spirit each AI tends to have in some form or another.

You won't get a Bolo story with a unit facing enemies totally sub-par to it and without any real initiative or other advantage.

[Uraniun235]

Late mark Bolos have energy shields. Unless your infantry fire strategic yield nuclear weapons, you're probably not going to manage to get through the battle screens. Also, late mark Bolos have stupidly large numbers of point defense weapons.

Bolos aren't what Dale Brown would write if he wrote about tanks because Bolos die. Often. Once you get towards the chronological end of the series, there's only a handful left.

So let me get this straight; he designs the ultimate wank-tanks that can utterly plaster anything and then kills them off with... what?

I don't think Keith Laumer, the guy who created Bolos, ever laid down any specs for the oft-referenced Mk33 Bolo himself; indeed, his stories tended to be very general and inspecific about numbers, instead emphasizing the strength of the cybertanks through other means. For example, one passage has the Bolo incredulous at the enemy's use of conventional explosives (as opposed to nukes), regarding it an act of desperation. This same story had a crippled Bolo on its last energy reserves burrowing its way out of a concrete casket some few dozen meters beneath the surface.

Many of the Bolo stories involve earlier models which are more susceptible to weapons fire as they lack energy shields and possess limited interception capability; thus massive sustained weapons fire, or even a single Hellbore shot is enough to cripple or kill a Bolo. Many Bolo stories also pit the Bolo against aliens which are roughly equivalent to human technology, such that while the Bolo may be a very large and dangerous opponent, it can still be felled by several enemy battle tanks which themselves possess enormous firepower.

Further, a lot of the specifications were drawn up after Laumer had died and new authors had revived the Bolo series. I personally find that the later you go, the more rigid the stories become; I find myself favoring the earlier Bolo collection books, as well as the original Laumer stories, over the later works. But then, I'm a big Laumer fan myself.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Didn't the Mark XXXIV 'Resurgent' Bolo pack two double-mounted 240cm Hellbore turrnets? I think it was a Republic of Indrani design.

[Beowulf]

So let me get this straight; he designs the ultimate wank-tanks that can utterly plaster anything and then kills them off with... what?

Qualitatively inferior but numerically superior forces, usually. Sometimes it's other Bolos.

[Enigma]

I know that the latest model had Hellrails.

[Uraniun235]

There is no Mk34.


(Okay, there is and they came up a lot in one of the collections, but I think it was an unnecessary and ridiculous aspect of those stories. I think the 33 is bad enough in terms of "lol megatank", and besides which the 33 was meant to be the last model of Bolo made before the conclusion of the Melconian War.)

[SylasGaunt]

There is no Mk34.


(Okay, there is and they came up a lot in one of the collections, but I think it was an unnecessary and ridiculous aspect of those stories. I think the 33 is bad enough in terms of "lol megatank", and besides which the 33 was meant to be the last model of Bolo made before the conclusion of the Melconian War.)

IIRC the 34s only had a limited production and were all ultimately destroyed in those campaigns. Plus the 34s have ziggy so I have no intention of ignoring them.

That and IIRC the 33 was better at fighting overall. If you needed a single large target killed the 34 was your Bolo since it was primarily built for anti-starship work.

[Admiral Valdemar]

The Mk. XXXIV was simply a XXXIII with most of the standard armament replaced with those two large railguns (Hellrails) to deal with orbital ships better. I don't recall it being anything other than a return to the time when Bolos had various types of model for each mark used for different purposes, rather than a general all round capability.

[Jadeite]

In a thread about capabilities, I'm surprised no one has posted any excerpts yet.

From "Bolo!"

Sporadic artillery and missile fire greets us, but it is all the Enemy has left. Recon drones and satellites pick up additional heavy units rushing towards us from the east, but they are seven-eight-point-five-niner minutes away. For now, there is only the wreckage of the defenses we have already crushed, boiling in confusion in the river valley below us as the light combat vehicles and infantry and shattered air-cav squadrons seek to rally and stand.

But it is too late for them to stand, for beyond them we see the city. Intelligence estimates its population at just over two million, and we confer with Team John over the TSDS net. Fire plan generation consumes two-point-six-six-one seconds; then our main batteries go into rapid sustained fire mode, and seventy-eight megaton-range plasma bolts vomit from our white-hot tubes each minute. Despite our target's size, we require only seven-six-point-five-one seconds to reduce it to an overlapping pattern of fire storms, and then we advance down the ridge to clean up the Enemy's remnants.

76.51 seconds to destroy a city of 2 million Melconians by two Mk 33 Bolos.

We land on our tracks once more ten-point-two-five kilometers from the LZ, bring up our battle screen, and charge over the intervening ridge, but there are no more screams on the com circuits. There is only silence, and the rising pall of smoke, and the riddled wreckage of transports . . . and the last three Garm-class heavies of Ishark, waiting in ambush.

Madness. Madness upon us all in that moment, for all of us know we are the last. We have no supports, no reinforcements, no place to go. There are only four sentient machines and a single Human--the last Human on Ishark, perhaps the last Human in an entire galaxy--on our own and filled with the need to kill. We are the crowning achievements of twice a thousand years of history and technology, of sophisticated weapons and tactical doctrine, and none of us care. We are the final warriors of the Final War, smashing and tearing at one another in a frenzy of hatred and despair, seeking only to know that our enemies die before we do.

And Team Shiva "wins." Two of them we blow into ruin, but even as we fire the shot which disembowels the third, his last plasma bolt impacts on our glacis, and agony crashes through our brutally overloaded pain receptors. Massive armor tears like tissue, and we feel the failure of internal disrupter shields, the bright, terrible burst of light as plasma breaches our Personality Center.

In our last, fleeting instant of awareness, we know death has come for us at last, and there is no more sorrow, no more hate, no more desperation. There is only the darkness beyond the terrible light . . . and peace at last.

Demonstrating the firepower needed to take out a Mk33. Three Garms, enemy units just under half the size of a 33, wait in ambush, and are wiped out in return for putting the Bolo out of action (it is later restored to operational status).

[Admiral Valdemar]

I think what Hector managed in defending his colony was probably the best single show of endurance a Bolo has managed. Though Bolo! has a fair few amazing stories from across the ages on just how versatile and powerful these machines can be since they became fully autonomous. Unit 0075-NKE "Nike" the experimental Mk. XXIII Invincibilis model, for instance.

[Uraniun235]

One of my very favorites is the story about Bolo "Gonner".

The Mk. XXXIV was simply a XXXIII with most of the standard armament replaced with those two large railguns (Hellrails) to deal with orbital ships better. I don't recall it being anything other than a return to the time when Bolos had various types of model for each mark used for different purposes, rather than a general all round capability.

Those Hellrails are really central to my objection, because the basic premise of basically ever Bolo since around the Mk15 has been that it is a huge tank with a main weapon equivalent to what you'd find on a starship; i.e. the Bolos are already capable of duelling with (and winning against!) enemy warships. The Hellrails just felt really gimmicky, like the author wanted a cheap way to wow the reader with an even more powerful gun that was so powerful it "wasn't supposed to be used against ground forces"... but of course eventually was.

[MJ12 Commando]

It doesn't even begin to push the envelope. Of course, the infantry that springs to mind still can't do it: FORCE: Ground and the Pax Swiss Guard from the Hyperion Cantos couldn't do it, and Pax Swiss Guard could hit stuff on the moon. The only thing that really jumps to mind is infantry from Perry Rhodan, with their funky transdimensional barriers and cannons.

What about Killy or Sanakan from BLAME!? I think they'd be able to do it assuming they have unobstructed line of sight, or they have some other way to see the Bolo and shoot through a mountain. I am reasonably sure that they are capable of at least surviving some fairly impressive firepower-and a GBE on Level 4 Extra should probably blow a good chunk of Bolo away.

I doubt a Bolo, even with battlescreens, provides any more resistance than 70km of megastructure, so even basic should do it, it's just a lot less likely to hit something vital.

The problem here, of course, is that the Bolo can probably plaster them if they see them first.

[MJ12 Commando]

Also, something I just thought of: Technically a GURPS mundane could be enlisted in a modern armed force.

I'd like to see a Bolo try killing a Mundane. Seriously. :p

I mean, movie props don't tend to have any offensive power at all and are likely made of cheap plastic and a metal skeleton underneath. However, anti-tank rockets are rather real.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Also, something I just thought of: Technically a GURPS mundane could be enlisted in a modern armed force.

I'd like to see a Bolo try killing a Mundane. Seriously. :p

Those are the ones that suppress anything they don't believe in right ? Well, don't they believe in nukes ? Or what about collapsing buildings that the Bolo shot the other side of ? How about assassins or armies sent by governments that the Bolo offered to pay with tech specs ? Bolos are smart enough to think of those things.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Oh, and I don't think someone with powers that warp reality according to his preconceptions counts as "normal troops" re the OP.

[MJ12 Commando]

Those are the ones that suppress anything they don't believe in right ? Well, don't they believe in nukes ? Or what about collapsing buildings that the Bolo shot the other side of ? How about assassins or armies sent by governments that the Bolo offered to pay with tech specs ? Bolos are smart enough to think of those things.

Do normal people get crushed by collapsing buildings or nuked? It's not just technological base, it's also likelihood. If the Bolo was replaced by an AK-47 wielding moron the latter would have an infinitely better chance.

Do people send armies after one guy? Or elite assassins against a relatively normal dude, even one in the armed forces?

...no, not normal.

Furthermore-how does the Bolo magically know the opponent is a Mundane? It doesn't. If it fights, it'd fight normally... then poof out of existence. Meanwhile the guy and his platoon wonder why they were sent to blow up a movie prop, do so, and walk back for beers.

[Erik von Nein]

Ooookaaaay, so someone who has the ability to FUCK WITH THE LAWS OF PHYSICS can beat a Bolo by not believing in it. Wow. That's special.

[MJ12 Commando]

Ooookaaaay, so someone who has the ability to FUCK WITH THE LAWS OF PHYSICS can beat a Bolo by not believing in it. Wow. That's special.

The amusement value is in the irony of a guy in Interceptor with a AT4 beating up the world's most awesome tank. :p

[Erik von Nein]

The amusement value is in the irony of a guy in Interceptor with a AT4 beating up the world's most awesome tank. :p

Because he can fuck with reality, not because of military hardware. Hell, he could be walking around naked and that'd still happen. It's just silly. Might as well say Q with a pea-shooter can defeat a Bolo. He's not beating it with his pea-shooter, he's beating it through magic.