Moderator: Vympel
Stark wrote:Is that so? So it's better now that it's taken ideas from fantasy, regardless of how poorly rationalised they are in-universe?
I repeat, the phenomena the slugs use should be replicatable. Sure, the planet might be locked down to maintain a monopoly, but the ideas of force-nullifcation can't be new and shouldn't be 'oh strap this animal to your back because we're retarded'. They are literal magical talismans. The ability to disrupt the force at will would have totally changed Star Wars, however, which obviously isn't what Zahn wanted: he should have thought ahead.
The stories were signed off as acceptable by Lucas before they were written, but Lucas still retconned the Clone Wars.
I think Stark is speaking more towards thinking ahead as to what kind of effects or ramifications this type of Force blocking animal would have, not Zahn's overall story.Zac Naloen wrote:Stark wrote:Is that so? So it's better now that it's taken ideas from fantasy, regardless of how poorly rationalised they are in-universe?
I repeat, the phenomena the slugs use should be replicatable. Sure, the planet might be locked down to maintain a monopoly, but the ideas of force-nullifcation can't be new and shouldn't be 'oh strap this animal to your back because we're retarded'. They are literal magical talismans. The ability to disrupt the force at will would have totally changed Star Wars, however, which obviously isn't what Zahn wanted: he should have thought ahead.
How's Zahn supposed to predict what Lucas is going to do seven years before he did it?
Tattoine wasn't part of the Republic and had nothing of value and Jedi were there all the fucking time.Also, Mykr wasn't part of the republic, nothing of value is there that anyone knew about, barely anyone knew about it. The Jedi are such a small group on a galactic scale why would a Jedi go to a planet with nothing on it and make the discovery about these force blocking creatures ?
In the 40,000+ years of history the Jedi have, not to mention just general exploration, it just seems odd that this one Jedi nullifying creature would have gone unnoticed.Besides, they obviously have made some sort of objective study of the force, otherwise how would they have made the discovery about Midichlorians? They couldn't have known without a study. The fact is though, the force is intended as magic.
With 10,000 Jedi at any time, likely hood of a Jedi turning up on the planet who is the only people likely to notice is slim as hell.Tattoine wasn't part of the Republic and had nothing of value and Jedi were there all the fucking time. Wink In the 40,000+ years of history the Jedi have, not to mention just general exploration, it just seems odd that this one Jedi nullifying creature would have gone unnoticed.
As slim as finding the "Chosen One"? Jedi have a knack for finding just that type of thing. Also 10,000 is just the number around the time of the Clone Wars, and is considered to be quite low. It's not a constant.Zac Naloen wrote:With 10,000 Jedi at any time, likely hood of a Jedi turning up on the planet who is the only people likely to notice is slim as hell.Tattoine wasn't part of the Republic and had nothing of value and Jedi were there all the fucking time. Wink In the 40,000+ years of history the Jedi have, not to mention just general exploration, it just seems odd that this one Jedi nullifying creature would have gone unnoticed.
How would the Jedi find something via the force that they can't see via the force?havokeff wrote:As slim as finding the "Chosen One"? Jedi have a knack for finding just that type of thing. Also 10,000 is just the number around the time of the Clone Wars, and is considered to be quite low. It's not a constant.Zac Naloen wrote:With 10,000 Jedi at any time, likely hood of a Jedi turning up on the planet who is the only people likely to notice is slim as hell.Tattoine wasn't part of the Republic and had nothing of value and Jedi were there all the fucking time. Wink In the 40,000+ years of history the Jedi have, not to mention just general exploration, it just seems odd that this one Jedi nullifying creature would have gone unnoticed.
I believe he's making a reference to Aliens "And found something never recorded once on over a hundred surveyed worlds" or something like that was said to Ripley by the executives of Wayland-Yutani when she gave them her report.Starglider wrote:Don't you mean 'over a million surveyed planets'? Don't make me summarily execute you for unforgivable EU minimalism.Stark wrote:(something never before seen on over a hundred surveyed planets
cf. Heir to the Empire, emphasis mine."Ysalamiri?" Luke followed his gesture... and for the first time noticed the slender, gray-brown creature hanging onto the tree limb directly over Karrde's head. "What is it?"
"The reason you're staying where we put you," Karrde said. "They seem to have the unusual ability to push back the Force—to create bubbles, so to speak, where the Force simply doesn't exist."
"I've never heard of them," Luke said, wondering if there was any truth at all to the story. Certainly neither Yoda nor Ben had ever mentioned the possibility of such a thing.
"Not very many have," Karrde agreed. "And in the past, most of those who did had a vested interest in keeping it that way. The Jedi of the Old Republic avoided the planet, for obvious reasons, which was why a fair number of smuggling groups back then had their bases here. After the Emperor destroyed the Jedi, most of the groups pulled up roots and left, preferring to be closer to their potential markets. Now that the Jedi are rising again—" he nodded gravely to Luke "—perhaps some of them will return. Though I dare say the general populace would probably not appreciate that."
But does not cite any source specifically, so this is suspect at best.Ysalamiri do not actually negate the Force; since all existence is infused with Force energy this would not be possible. Rather they project a Force bubble inside which it is completely neutral and cannot exert any influence.
Other than midichlorians, the novel Children of the Jedi (er, wrong name?) which introduced Callista and the Eye of Palpatine made it clear that there was scientific study of the Force and its interaction with mechanicals, but this was suppressed by the Emperor. There is no reason not to believe that any study of the Force was being suppressed or strictly controlled by the Jedi and not released to the public at all.Terralthra wrote:By the same token, you'd expect over the many millenia of the Jedi Order, someone would at least attempt to objectively study the Force. There is not a single reference to such a study anywhere in canon that I know of.
If the answer is "it was done a long time ago and forgotten to the mists of time," then someone would do it again, no? The lack of objective research into the Force extends, apparently, to ysalamiri.
Oh I sure am. Couldn't remember the exact wording though, and the board doesn't have a 'horrible pencil-pushing bitch raising eyebrow' emoticon.ANGELUS wrote:I believe he's making a reference to Aliens "And found something never recorded once on over a hundred surveyed worlds" or something like that was said to Ripley by the executives of Wayland-Yutani when she gave them her report.
You said it yourself, they're large, powerful, active pack predators. Packs of large (wolf-sized) predators need lots of food. Each wolf in a pack needs a minimum of 1 kg of food per day. That several times over (a pack) is around probably 10 kg of food per day per pack. You're talking a massive population of decently sized prey in order to sustain itself while still feeding the Vornskrs, and that's just a single pack. Ysalamiri are the only animals of that size noted in the Myrkr forest with those kind of numbers.Molyneux wrote:1) Where is it said that ysalimiri are vornskrs' only source of food?
2) Vornskrs, by all accounts, are fairly powerful, active predators with strong senses of sight, smell AND hearing, as well as their semi-unique Force sense. It's used in addition to their other senses in hunting.
Have we seen them running in packs, or only in groups of 2 to 3?Terralthra wrote:You said it yourself, they're large, powerful, active pack predators. Packs of large (wolf-sized) predators need lots of food. Each wolf in a pack needs a minimum of 1 kg of food per day. That several times over (a pack) is around probably 10 kg of food per day per pack. You're talking a massive population of decently sized prey in order to sustain itself while still feeding the Vornskrs, and that's just a single pack. Ysalamiri are the only animals of that size noted in the Myrkr forest with those kind of numbers.Molyneux wrote:1) Where is it said that ysalimiri are vornskrs' only source of food?
2) Vornskrs, by all accounts, are fairly powerful, active predators with strong senses of sight, smell AND hearing, as well as their semi-unique Force sense. It's used in addition to their other senses in hunting.
Ah, okay.Terralthra wrote:Without paging through the texts in which they are mentioned, all I know offhand is Karrde mentions by metaphor, "when a pack of vornskrs attacks you..."
It's inferred that vornskrs are, in fact, pack animals.
Not really, he was just getting used to being unable to touch the force. It was like losing a sense to him, he slowly adapted to being back to normal.Stark wrote:Except where it appears both inconsistent and in later books massively increased in power, I expect. From what turned up in this thread, it seems that Luke was already adapting to the effect in the first book: later, it's a 100% no magic area, more than it apparently was originally! Go Slugs!
Nitpick: 2 years. I, Jedi occurs concurrently with the Jedi Academy Trilogy, both 11 ABY, while the Thrawn Crisis is 9 ABY.Darth Yoshi wrote:In I, Jedi, which is maybe 5 years after HTTE, Luke compares the ysalamir effect to losing an arm.
