Re-Programming Myself

[Zixinus]

Well, first off sit down and start to criticize your own beliefs. Why is the justification of this? Can it be that what I have been taught is wrong? Is she really right? Look at the history of your cult/religion, from sources that they could have not touched.

If you can't, then try a simple exercise: write down, in simple sentences, your beliefs on a sheet of paper and leave space after each sentence. And put the questions "How?", "Why?" and "What for?" and whatever else you can think off againts them. And then, try to answer those questions to yourself.

What you are going trough is trying to get over religious indoctrination. If I understand correctly, you have had such an up-brining and held it strongly until recently. Every time you want to think differently, conditional programming you received subconsciously tries to do otherwise.

If you understand the problem, you can fight it. The fact that you actually WANT TO think differently tells that you are on the right path.

Welcome to the world of the freely thinking.

[Kanastrous]

By the way, R&W, for whatever it's worth I want to express my admiration for your courage and strength of character, in being willing to fight and take the risks you're taking.

I wish that there were more people out there, like you.

[Basic Model]

My suggestion would be to pray to be set free from a 'religious spirit'. And then walk in freedom, as God would want you to do.

Maybe you're having a hard time trying to delete God from your life, because nothing else can ever fill the 'God-space' gap in your spirit.

'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life'....

[Kanastrous]

Maybe you're having a hard time trying to delete God from your life, because nothing else can ever fill the 'God-space' gap in your spirit.

Wow, what pessimism.

[Starglider]

My suggestion would be to pray to be set free from a 'religious spirit'. And then walk in freedom, as God would want you to do.

I'd like to think that you're being sarcastic, but unfortunately you're probably trying to be serious. Pray to be free of religion? Oxymoron much?

Maybe you're having a hard time trying to delete God from your life, because nothing else can ever fill the 'God-space' gap in your spirit.

I bet you'd be great at substance abuse councilling: "It's noble of you to try and give up hard drugs, but honestly nothing else will ever fill the 'heroin-space' gap in your spirit".

[Covenant]

My suggestion would be to pray to be set free from a 'religious spirit'. And then walk in freedom, as God would want you to do.

Maybe you're having a hard time trying to delete God from your life, because nothing else can ever fill the 'God-space' gap in your spirit.

'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life'....

...which is exactly what every religion has said since the beginning of time, through the mouths of their original priests. If you want Truth and Life, embrace those, but don't limit yourself to one book.

I had a big post, but I deleted it. It's not necessary. But read up--read the damn Bible, it's the strongest weapon against faith you can imagine. If that's the Word right there, you'll find so many plot holes you'll wonder how anyone could read it and believe. Which is why the Priests were supposed to interpert it for the people. Also, remember, the books in the Bible were voted on. There's an awful lot of stuff that was left out, or added in, because a few people about 1,500 years ago decided you did or did not need THOSE divine words of God.

But also read up on other religions, and philosphies. You'll start seeing paralells. Once you remove the basic assumption that Christianity is Right, and all others are fake, then you see a pattern. If all religions are so damn similar, why is this one any more real than them? Why are there neo-pagans? Why are there Odin worshippers in downtown Seattle? Why do Popes get things wrong? If a Pope speaks for God, and gets things wrong, does that mean God was wrong, or that the Pope is just talking out of his ass?

And as soon as you start saying "Well, the Catholics are nutty but the rest have the right idea," it starts slipping. As soon as you start deciding FOR YOURSELF who is actually telling the truth about hearing Voices from God, you've already made it from being a search for the Truth to a search for which hole in the sand to hide your head in. Religion exists on faith because it offers nothing tangible, and there is honestly nothing more comforting than knowing you can be a good person, a charitable person, an honest person, and not just be sucking up to some sky pixie.

[Zixinus]

My suggestion would be to pray to be set free from a 'religious spirit'. And then walk in freedom, as God would want you to do.

Praying to get away from religious spirit.

Okay, I'm pretty sure you don't know what the word "oxymoron" means.

Maybe you're having a hard time trying to delete God from your life, because nothing else can ever fill the 'God-space' gap in your spirit.

Or because the gap shouldn't be there, and all the bullshit that is stuffed there is refusing to come out on its own. Because the gap is a wound and now its starting to heal and bullshit is in the way.

'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life'...

If repeating something made it any more true, then we would be living in a happier world.

[General Zod]

My suggestion would be to pray to be set free from a 'religious spirit'. And then walk in freedom, as God would want you to do.

Maybe you're having a hard time trying to delete God from your life, because nothing else can ever fill the 'God-space' gap in your spirit.

'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life'....

It's not like every deity throughout history has claimed to be the one and only path to salvation or anything.

[General Zod]

My suggestion would be to pray to be set free from a 'religious spirit'. And then walk in freedom, as God would want you to do.

Maybe you're having a hard time trying to delete God from your life, because nothing else can ever fill the 'God-space' gap in your spirit.

'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life'....

It's not like every deity throughout history hasn't claimed to be the one and only path to salvation or anything.

Ghetto Edit.

[Darth Wong]

Maybe you're having a hard time trying to delete God from your life, because nothing else can ever fill the 'God-space' gap in your spirit.

Yes, yes, we all know about how you need your imaginary friend. They say that's common among children. I guess some of us never grow up.

[wolveraptor]

Look, a large number of people here are atheists. I can't speak for everyone, but I sure as hell have never felt a gap in my life that could only be filled by God.

The only reason RiPP feels that way is because he was indoctrinated that way. Make no mistake: breaking down years of childhood brainwashing will not be easy or quick. But gaining critical thinking skills is well worth it. Thinking freely isn't just a luxury - it can save you from dangerous bullshitters like Kevin Trudeau, and those damn televangelists. You'll be able to see through political bullshit, be a more informed citizen, and be an all around better person.

[Zixinus]

Not to mention that Critical thinking pack (tm) includes free Bullshit Detectors which will help you get rid of scammers of various kinds, not to mention marketing. Can help you a great deal when it comes to making important financial decesions.

[Coyote]

My suggestion would be to pray to be set free from a 'religious spirit'. And then walk in freedom, as God would want you to do.

Maybe you're having a hard time trying to delete God from your life, because nothing else can ever fill the 'God-space' gap in your spirit.

'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life'....

You're like a Klansman that just accidentally wandered into Compton.

[Knife]

You're like a Klansman that just accidentally wandered into Compton.

Lol. Must have two sheets one, one for the regular costume and the other for his gall.

It's almost paternizing isn't it?

Poster A- I'm starting to question and think on my own. It's a little scary and I'm not 100% there yet, but I've started to see the big world around me.

Poster B- Shhh, little one. Go back to sleep. The big world is a dream that you don't have to worry about. Shhhh, little one.

[Setesh]

You are a believer who doesn't want to believe any more,but the fact is you still do.Your brain has been filled with so much bullshit that it is now hard for you to throw it all out of the window.Trust me i know how hard and painful the truth can be.I used to be a Muslim who believed that ˝Allah˝ was the one true god and that we are all his slaves.
There is no easy way out for you.People on the board have given you good advice you just have to try and follow it.
Don't give up too easily!

This is what Richard Dawkins was going on about when he started comparing religion to a virus. In your formative years you are predisposed to believe anything your parents tell you. So if your raised with this bullshit your predisposed to continue believing it it some form. Your brain tends to hardwire things you learn early on making them difficult to change.

One thing you may want to keep in mind for the next time your argueing with your mother is while most JW adherents are in near poverty the JW leadership control obscene amounts of money and live in luxury. While they technically don't own any of it, but since there is no oversight on how they spend the money (I looked it up, there is actually a church law that JW members cannot object to how the governing body spends money nor have any right to question it. The governing body are the 'mouth of god' after all) and they all have platinum cards the church picks up the charges on. So they can spend it on anything they damn well please.

[Zixinus]

Ah, that explains why the JW missionaries are so damn aggressive.

[Setesh]

Ah, that explains why the JW missionaries are so damn aggressive.

Actually it has to do with the limited number of slots for 'immortality, ruling next to christ' according to JW doctrine only 144000 JW get immortal life in heaven helping Christ rule the post-apocalypse millennial reign, as there are 6.7 million JW 'members' and according to the JW leadership 'The End' will start 'any day now' competition for those seats is fierce.

[The Yosemite Bear]

well Ripp, I recomend a full format.


hehheehehehe

[Elaro]

The basic problem is faith itself; the notion that you should act as if something was true, tell yourself that it is true, simply because you want it to be true

What about faith in one's self? Wait, no. If someone thinks he's good at something, he still could fail miserably. The only place where faith in one's abilities is appropriate is if he has experience telling him he has succeeded in similar endeavours.

Okay, my bad.

But still, I think the origin of faith comes from our ancestors having the balls (so to speak) to do things previously unattempted, aka having faith in the success of their actions, and surviving better than their peers. The ability to shut down/ignore your "inner critic" in worldly actions might be the source of religious faith. If "faithful" people were favored over critical people, perhaps the "faith" meme (or neural mecanism) was spread to the entirety of the population; from then going from "I have faith this is going to work" to "I have faith my parent'/shaman's/leader's stories are true" isn't a long leap.

[Starglider]

What about faith in one's self?

A realistic assessment of your own capabilities is usually better than wishful thinking. Generally by the time you're actually qualified to play psychological games with yourself to improve performance, you don't need them any more. I'd make an exception for getting through truly awful scenarios, but the benefits of self-deception are very rarely greater than the costs.

The only place where faith in one's abilities is appropriate is if he has experience telling him he has succeeded in similar endeavours.

You should not be making decisions on the basis of how things feel. As you say the best evidence for the probability of suceeding at something is the frequency with which you have suceeded at similar tasks in the past. When that isn't available, you try to rate your abilities compared to other people who've tried to do that thing, and look at the success rate for the most comparable group.

Take me working on aritificial general intelligence. The prior success rate is effectively zero, and while I have some fairly fresh ideas I don't have anything radically special that would make me much more likely to produce a big advance than anyone else. But the utility (to humanity in genral) of doing so is extremely high, and very few other people are, so it makes sense for me to work on it. A great many AI amateurs say 'oh, I will solve it, despite everyone else failing, because I have faith in myself'. This is pathological behaviour and ultimately counterproductive.

But still, I think the origin of faith comes from our ancestors having the balls (so to speak) to do things previously unattempted, aka having faith in the success of their actions, and surviving better than their peers.

Logic and rationality are very recent inventions. Most of the human mind still acts like it isn't available.

[DPDarkPrimus]

I would think this wouldn't be a "re-programming" so much as a "de-programming".

[Santiago]

I would think this wouldn't be a "re-programming" so much as a "de-programming".

Deprograming got a bad reputation during the 1960s and 1970s when people would use torturelike methods to get cult members to renounce their beliefs. A lot of people complained that this went against their constitutional right to freedom of religion. Even though most of the cults were in fact dangerous didn't change the fact of how "evil" those who tried to help members out of them were. So the term used is probably a similar word but without the less savory meaning.

[RIPP_n_WIPE]

It's exceedingly hard to prove something to ones self when what you're trying to prove to yourself is essentially a counter to what you've been taught your entire life. Whenever I read something I can seriously feel a wall, the same wall I'd feel if I was trying to explain something to someone, who didn't, couldn't, or didn't want to understand. Except I really am and my brain is totally rejecting what I'm either reading or having explained to me.

The freaking thing is is that I'm pretty sure (note I always give everything the benefit of the doubt) that I am this way entirely because it's the way I was brought up. I don't know what non-core parts of my personality are based on my upbringing but I know that much of me is wrapped around what I've learned. I'm sure that if I'd been brought up as a catholic or atheist or muslim or what have you I'd be as equally (well if the information was presented well) a believer in all three than as I am having grown up as a JW.

[Coyote]

Asking things like "how do I know I'm not just replacing one dogma with another?" means you're on the right path. You'll be alright. Just avoid the pitfall of over-thinking meaning or lack of meaning to the point where you are parlyzed by indecision.

I may be alone here, but I feel that a person is better off if they are at least trying to go somewhere on partially thought through ideas, than if they are sitting, going nowehere, and waiting for enlightenment to fall out of the sky. In order to correct your course later, you must at least first be underway.

[Darth Wong]

But still, I think the origin of faith comes from our ancestors having the balls (so to speak) to do things previously unattempted, aka having faith in the success of their actions, and surviving better than their peers.

You are assuming that "faith" is an ability, so it had to come from somewhere. In reality, faith is the lack of an ability: the ability to think rationally and objectively.