British Muslim MP gets stopped and searched again.

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Elfdart
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Post by Elfdart »

Kanastrous wrote:Since it's your industry we're talking about, what would you put in place, if policy-making power was given to you?
More air marshals would be a start. You know, trained policemen instead of rent-a-cops. Dogs trained to sniff out explosives instead of weed would also be helpful. But those things cost a lot of money -far more than $8-10/hour security guards.

Those who do stay on should have it made clear to them that whether they work for the airline or airport, the people you stop are customers unless proven otherwise, and every time you treat them like serfs you are pissing away your own future paychecks. Anyone who has ever worked a job serving the public knows that there's a polite way to ask for ID, a receipt, etc; and an asshole way. By the way, this is just one area where customer service has gone into the shitter. Those of us who get free tickets, jump seats and discounts on first class don't like to fly because of all the bullshit. So I can imagine how someone who had to pay full price would decide "Fuck this! I'm driving next time." or "Let's just stay home next vacation."

I'd also keep in mind that a crazed fanatic who is out to kill is out to kill, and even if security is perfect, they'll simply kill people waiting in line at the airport (like the Rome and Vienna bombings in the mid-1980s) or in nightclubs, restaurants or elsewhere. Just because a lunatic is kept away from aircraft doesn't mean he'll just give up. It means he'll blow himself up in another crowded setting. Shitting on customers on a regular basis is not likely to deter people who are not only not afraid to die, but WANT to die.

At some point, the taxpayers are going to be fed up with airline subsidies and the money will be cut off. So in a way, this kind of chickenshit just might prevent airline bombings: when the airline has to cut way back or shut down for lack of customers.
Kanastrous
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Post by Kanastrous »

General Zod wrote:
Sauce.
Okay. Is this reason to ignore the remaining bulk of their membership, which isn't composed of 'European' types?
General Zod wrote:
Wikipedia is not considered a credible source around here.
I know Wikipedia has plenty of problems, but y'all dismiss it completely as a useful source for anything?

Okay, if them's the rules...
General Zod wrote:
Kanastrous wrote:It's interesting that you find figures that appear to undermine your position 'worthless.'

Would figures from the same sources that supported your arguments, suddenly become 'worthwhile?
When you don't bother citing your figures sources whatsoever, I'm going to treat them skeptically dumbass.
Fair enough, Although I'm surprised that we don't already know those numbers; they've certainly been floating around long enough...do I *really* need to cite a source for there having been 19 young male Muslim hijackers of Middle-Eastern extraction, on 9-11, etc...?

General Zod wrote:
Kanastrous wrote:
General Zod wrote:It does not demonstrate that the approach doesn't offer a deterrent effect,
Well, we agree there.
General Zod wrote:or that it lacks the potential to detain genuinely dangerous people, if they decide to try and get through the screening.
We agree there, too.
Where the fuck are you getting these quotes, dimwit? :wtf:
Cut-and-pasted without alteration, from your post, of course. Go back and read it...
General Zod wrote:
So prove it, instead of just saying "I think it's true".
Back atcha.

People make decisions and base policy on theory, all the time. Find a hole in the theory that screening for a specific profile of assailant, deters would-be assailants fitting that profile, from approaching a security screening station, and I'll consider it.

While you're at it, please demonstrate that bank security does not deter some number of potential bank robbers, that speeding penalties do not deter some number of potential speeders, etc - or explain why banks and transit authorities bother with those measures, if they lack any prophylactic value.

General Zod wrote:
Kanastrous wrote:If you dismiss deterrent potential.

Which suggests that you dismiss the deterrent potential of any policy, to deter any offense. Which perhaps you do.
An appeal to motive combined with a burden of proof and a strawman all wrapped into one. Try again fuckwit.
I'll re-phrase it as a question:

Do you believe that deterrent policies have any effect, in any setting?
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
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General Zod
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Post by General Zod »

Kanastrous wrote: Okay. Is this reason to ignore the remaining bulk of their membership, which isn't composed of 'European' types?
It's reason enough that racial profiling isn't very useful if at all.
I know Wikipedia has plenty of problems, but y'all dismiss it completely as a useful source for anything?
For serious discussions, no.

Fair enough, Although I'm surprised that we don't already know those numbers; they've certainly been floating around long enough...do I *really* need to cite a source for there having been 19 young male Muslim hijackers of Middle-Eastern extraction, on 9-11, etc...?
Number of people detained vs number of false positives. This is not a difficult thing to explain here.

Kanastrous wrote:
Cut-and-pasted without alteration, from your post, of course. Go back and read it...
Follow your own advice fuckwit. You were quoting yourself and putting my name in it.

Back atcha.

People make decisions and base policy on theory, all the time. Find a hole in the theory that screening for a specific profile of assailant, deters would-be assailants fitting that profile, from approaching a security screening station, and I'll consider it.

While you're at it, please demonstrate that bank security does not deter some number of potential bank robbers, that speeding penalties do not deter some number of potential speeders, etc - or explain why banks and transit authorities bother with those measures, if they lack any prophylactic value.
Once again, burden of proof you ignorant piece of shit. You[/i] need to show that racial profiling is more effective than other methods. It's fallacious to expect me to prove a negative.

Do you believe that deterrent policies have any effect, in any setting?
Completely irrelevant to the topic. The question is whether racial profiling is an effective deterrent. Not whether deterrency is effective. Try again with less straw please.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
Kanastrous
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Post by Kanastrous »

I'm going to apologize for trying to have this conversation while juggling work, since I'm mostly embarrassing myself and wasting Zod's time, as well as Bruckheimer's.

I'll come back to it later when I can be less distracted and make fewer dumbass mistakes.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
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