Lagmonster wrote:b) You had better not expect that I won't hate you. If you hate yourself that much, you probably don't care that I will hate you for killing yourself, but I just want it to be perfectly clear that I will think you are a weak-willed, pathetic piece of useless crap, and I will under no circumstances be buried in the same cemetary as you.
How could you hate someone who felt that their life was so horrible that they killed themself?
Shinova wrote:I think it's bad. Not because of religious reasons, but mainly because I think it means that you've given up.
WTF is wrong with giving up? Some situations really are hopeless.
It's not my place in life to make people happy. Don't talk to me unless you're prepared to watch me slaughter cows you hold sacred. Don't talk to me unless you're prepared to have your basic assumptions challenged. If you want bunnies in light, talk to someone else.
Shinova wrote:I think it's bad. Not because of religious reasons, but mainly because I think it means that you've given up.
WTF is wrong with giving up? Some situations really are hopeless.
Because some situations that seem hopeless at the time really aren't in retrospect.
"everytime a person is born the Earth weighs just a little more."--DMJ on StarTrek.com
"You see now you are using your thinking and that is not a good thing!" DMJay on StarTrek.com
"Watching Sarli argue with Vympel, Stas, Schatten and the others is as bizarre as the idea of the 40-year-old Virgin telling Hugh Hefner that Hef knows nothing about pussy, and that he is the expert."--Elfdart
I don't think that suicide is good, should be helped to prevent it from happening, but I think that it ultimately should be allowed.
Brotherhood of the Monkey @( !.! )@ To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. ~Steve Prefontaine Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
*starts to hum a great jazz tune*
I think the movie mash had a good take on it...and a great theme to boot.
"Prodesse Non Nocere." "It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president." "I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..." "All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism. BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
Darth Servo wrote:Because some situations that seem hopeless at the time really aren't in retrospect.
And some really are. On the mirror thread on SB.com, I used Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis as an example of a truly hopeless situation where suicide really is a sane option.
I don't see suicide as immoral; I consider the life they take their own. However, I am not sure whether it should be done. When you kill yourself, you leave behind many people, some which may have relied on you for support. I think that suicide is the easy way out of your problems, and shouldn't be taken.
Shinova wrote:Do you see suicide as allowable/good/okay or bad?
I think it's bad. Not because of religious reasons, but mainly because I think it means that you've given up.
Are we talking about suicide in general, lumping in old people with terminal illnesses? Or are we talking about people who choose to commit suicide for various reasons and choose to leave euthanasia out of it? If it's the later, then I say if people want to voluntarily remove themselves from the gene-pool with absolutely no regard to those around them, I say more power to 'em. My thought would be "Oh, he/she killed themselves? Idiot. Oh well, life goes on . . . for most of us, anyway."
As for euthanasia, I'm all for that. Some diseases truly are incurable and offer nothing but pain and suffering for the sufferer and their family. Though I wouldn't use ALS as an example. There is at least one notable sufferer of the disease who's had a full and productive life in spite of it. (Stephen Hawking)
I think suicide is a cop-out, a cowardly act. If someone wants to commit suicide, let him. It's his life to take, as long as he doesn't kill anyone else in the process.
As to the assisted suicide controversy, I think that if the pain makes being alive unbearable, and there is no cure in the foreseeable picture, then the only humane thing to do is to take away the pain.
Fragment of the Lord of Nightmares, release thy heavenly retribution. Blade of cold, black nothingness: become my power, become my body. Together, let us walk the path of destruction and smash even the souls of the Gods! RAGNA BLADE!
Lore Monkey | the Pichu-master™
Secularism—since AD 80
Av: Elika; Prince of Persia
Tosho wrote:How could you hate someone who felt that their life was so horrible that they killed themself?
Fine. Think of it as 'contempt' then. It's the same general feeling. I am not going to applaud someone for making that kind of decision.
I know there are times where choosing to die is okay, such as when you are incurably ill and just going to suffer anyway. But I can't stand it when someone who decides they want to die throw themselves out of a window in public, or blasts their brains out in front of their family or children, or leaves a messy corpse to be found by an unsuspecting loved one.
The effect that can have on those who witness the death or discover it can be very deep, and chances are, I will hate you if you make that kind of mark on other people by your selfish actions.
Note: I'm semi-retired from the board, so if you need something, please be patient.
I think all of us have had moments when the world just doesn't seem to care about us, and we consider suicide as a way of asking "NOW do you care?". In other words, a cry for attention. Not surprisingly, in hindsight such thoughts seem immensely silly.
As someone who has entertained such thought before, I don't I can just sit back and just look on the issue of suicides and think "Good riddance" regarding suicidal people.
I think suicides should be considered wrong, but it's stupid to criminalise it. Suidical people need help, as simple as that.
Regarding euthanasia, if someone with terminal disease is in great pain and no hope of recovering, than I absolutely see nothing wrong with then wanting to end their life.
Articles, opinions and rants from an astrophysicist: Cosmic Journeys
A lotta people are taking the all too common "suicide is a cop-out" clause. Thats bullshit. I tried to kill myself once and it was only coz of my sister i survived. Have you any idea how shity things are to actually want to do something like cut ur wrists and end it. Have you any idea how scary it is to jump way into the unknown like that. I doubt it. It takes a lotta guts to do something that drastic to get outta the rut and end the bad run.
Ok i can imagine that i'm gonna get hit with "You didn't kill yourself and your happier now" crap. I'm not. I am a miserable man it took me 15 years of torment and daily beatings before i decided to do what i did, I'm not proud of what happened but i'm not sorry i tried it. Some times a persons only comfort is that if it gets too shitty he or she can end it. I bear the scares of what i did and will till the end of my days. But if a person really wants to end it and has thought it through whats the problem.
Tosho wrote:How could you hate someone who felt that their life was so horrible that they killed themself?
Fine. Think of it as 'contempt' then. It's the same general feeling. I am not going to applaud someone for making that kind of decision.
I know there are times where choosing to die is okay, such as when you are incurably ill and just going to suffer anyway. But I can't stand it when someone who decides they want to die throw themselves out of a window in public, or blasts their brains out in front of their family or children, or leaves a messy corpse to be found by an unsuspecting loved one.
The effect that can have on those who witness the death or discover it can be very deep, and chances are, I will hate you if you make that kind of mark on other people by your selfish actions.
I must agree with you about the "I'll kill myself in a bloody way" attitude. I guess their thoughts are "I'll see if I can get into the news by commiting Seppuku!" If your going to commit suicide do this: make a extravagent dinner, the works, steaks, ham, turkey stuffed with chicken, pheasent, quail, sushi ect. with you favorite drink wine, beer, soda ( I don't care) and put some poison in it.
If I were to commit suicide, I'd build a trebuchet and put myself in it, douse myself with diesel, light myself on fire and launch myself into the sea, while skeet shooters take shots at me.
But, since I can't as I have a job to do, I say fine: if suicide "isn't bad" then off yourself and come on down. We have a nice big forest for you to play in, and lots of nice doggies who want to play with you.
I have being given A's for depleting Dragon ball Z the way it should be.
Malecoda wrote:Suicide should be illegal. For one thing, it's murder. Handily, the penalty for a successful one is death, and if you botch it, you could end up a vegetable or live to suffer, at least for a little while. But all those whacky considerations aside, I believe that once born, you have a duty to survive at any cost.[/code]
Nuh uh. I think somebody once said that, "Laws against people doing harmful things are useful. Laws against people doing stupid things aren't very." and I agree. If brainless, selfish angst-saturated motherfuckers want to off themselves and rid the planet of their fucking whining, I say let 'em -- but make them do it in a way that isn't (excessively) messy, like poisoning/huffing fumes/Taco Bell food overdose/etc. That's the worst -- when some fucker throws the Big Pity Party with a shotgun, say, or jumps off something like a deranged tomcat -- kill yourself if you think we'll care, but don't make us clean up after you!
Malecoda wrote:Suicide should be illegal. For one thing, it's murder. Handily, the penalty for a successful one is death, and if you botch it, you could end up a vegetable or live to suffer, at least for a little while. But all those whacky considerations aside, I believe that once born, you have a duty to survive at any cost.[/code]
Nuh uh. I think somebody once said that, "Laws against people doing harmful things are useful. Laws against people doing stupid things aren't very." and I agree. If brainless, selfish angst-saturated motherfuckers want to off themselves and rid the planet of their fucking whining, I say let 'em -- but make them do it in a way that isn't (excessively) messy, like poisoning/huffing fumes/Taco Bell food overdose/etc. That's the worst -- when some fucker throws the Big Pity Party with a shotgun, say, or jumps off something like a deranged tomcat -- kill yourself if you think we'll care, but don't make us clean up after you!
Well, that doesn't really have anything to do with my opinion that once born, you have the obligation to stay alive. But that's just an opinion and once entrneched, you can't really argue them out. I first read that in King Rat. I was a suicidal lad so I thought abt that for a long time and decided that that was the best way to think abt (some) things. I think S is bad bec of the people you leave behind. Plus, there are always 2nd chances, and if anyone knows abt irredeemability and second chances, it's me. So to cut something short on your own is downright criminal. How nearsighted and selfish. Which comes round to what you say here--I agree with it, it's kinda funny. However, unless you have the means to fly to the middle of the ocean and rid the world of your carcass, most of the time there'll always be some mess to clean up. Hmm, I talked myself out of agreeing with you on one count--I think that the shotgun would be a better way than poisoning, if only for the excitement. I'd much rather be shot to death by skeet shooters aiming at my flaming wreck as it hurls out of a catapult than something so mindless as gas-huffing. But I agree abt the rest. Kurt Cobain was a lamer, a big fat fucking sissy, and the only emotion I can express, I mean, if I had to force it out, would be contempt. Disdain. Slight regard. And whatever else may become the mighty sender doth he prize you at. Fuck Kurt Cobain, his death wasn't good for anything. Why didn't he join the army and invade Grenada or something.
I have being given A's for depleting Dragon ball Z the way it should be.
It's not punishable in Germany if you commit suicide.
And I think it's anyone's right to do so. It's his life, after all, and no one should force a person to live.
Great Dolphin Conspiracy - Chatter box
"Implications: we have been intercepted deliberately by a means unknown, for a purpose unknown, and transferred to a place unknown by a form of intelligence unknown. Apart from the unknown, everything is obvious." ZORAC GALE Force Euro Wimp Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
What abt the survivors? Don't they also have rights? What's the difference between being widowed by a suicide or by murder? How abt the guilt you would face, knowing that you weren't good enough for that person.
I have being given A's for depleting Dragon ball Z the way it should be.
The game of life is hard to play
I'm gonna lose it anyway
The losing card I'll someday lay
So this is all I have to say
Suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please
The only way to win is cheat
And lay it down before I'm beat
and to another give my seat
for that's the only painless feat.
Suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please
The sword of time will pierce our skins
It doesn't hurt when it begins
But as it works its way on in
The pain grows stronger watch it grin
Suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please
Anyone remember this little tune, and where it came from?
The only reason I could ever imagine killing myself for is if I were diagnosed with a terminal illness, and knew all I could look forward to was an incresing amount of pain and suffering. For that, I can't really blame someone for wanting to leave the party early. But for anything else... there's got to be another answer out there people. Suicide is a rather permanent solution to what may be a temporary problem.
As a cop I am often called upon to prevent people from committing suicide. I've taken people to the hospital to have that charcoal shake forced down their throats. I have found people in their houses after they've blown their heads off. I even found one who hanged himself, and broke his neck instead of just strangling; he hung there for a week and then his neighbors began to notice the smell. His neck was almost two feet long by then. One of my fellow officers was killed just after the 9/11 atrocity by a man who committed "suicide by cop"; he called 911 and said he was going to shoot himself, and when the officers responded, he opened fire with a .45 automatic. Officer James B. Gilbert was hit in the head and died at the scene. His partner returned fire and killed the suspect.
If you want to kill yourself, well, that's your decision, but don't take anyone else out with you. James Gilbert had a wife and a four year-old daughter. At his funeral, after the eulogy, the projected a large picture of him up on a screen, and his little girl said: "Daddy!" loud enough for everyone in the church to hear it. Every officer in the place was crying like a baby.
My mom has quite empahtically stated that in her old age, if her quality of life deteriates past a certain point she wants out. It will be an assisted suicide by either my father or myself.
She's seen too many relatives caught in the grips of dementia and is quite literally "scard to death" of it happening to her. I'll also admit, while assisting in her suicide will be hard, I'd prefer it to nursing a vegetable who used to be my mother.
Sometimes it seems that the medical profession gets some sort of kick in prolonging life to its extreme limits, regardless of the quality of said life.
I've always said that the greatest gift you will ever leave succeeding generations is your own death.
Perinquus wrote:
Anyone remember this little tune, and where it came from?
M.A.S.H.
Great TV series
[img=right]http://hem.bredband.net/b217293/warsaban.gif[/img] "Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. ... If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. ... If, as they say, God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" -Epicurus
Fear is the mother of all gods.
Nature does all things spontaneously, by herself, without the meddling of the gods. -Lucretius
"everytime a person is born the Earth weighs just a little more."--DMJ on StarTrek.com
"You see now you are using your thinking and that is not a good thing!" DMJay on StarTrek.com
"Watching Sarli argue with Vympel, Stas, Schatten and the others is as bizarre as the idea of the 40-year-old Virgin telling Hugh Hefner that Hef knows nothing about pussy, and that he is the expert."--Elfdart
