Hypothetical: Free College for All

[phongn]

The politicians here in Florida are full of shit. They had a the "class-size amendment" passed, a bullshit measure which people think will drastically alter education by shaving 5 kids out of every classroom. Hell, they could afford Bright Futures, Class-Size, and other shit if they removed rediculous bullshit exemptions to the sales tax. Here when I get my hair cut it isn't taxed. What a bunch of bullshit.

Fucking hell, I was pissed when they passed that amendment. I've been in large classes, and it sure as hell didn't affect my grade.

[Dahak]

actually it´s not free in germany. i have to pay about € 50 semesterbeitrag per semester.
i also have to buy the public transportation semester ticket for € 130. without it i wouldnt be able to get to the uni.

The ticket is not a problem of the university. WIthout studying, I'd still have to buy a ticket to get around.
And the ?50 Semesterbeitrag, or Rückmeldegebühr hier in Stuttgart, is for the administration effort.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The US decides, in a bit of insanity, to propose that all US citizens shall be able to attend public university within the US free of charge.

How much would this cost? Would it ever be feasible to attempt such a thing?

The universities just pump the government for moment, the program costs skyrocket like public school costs do, thanks to mass inefficiency. Incredibly, the quality of the education actually declines, even as the costs rise and the number of (unsurprisingly), unionized, employees, continues to increase. The Arts becomes even more, quite simply, depraved, while the Sciences produces only mechanistic plodders. Private university graduates and immigrates from places like Burma with higher education degrees get paid their family's weight in gold as signing bonuses at corporations.

[Crayz9000]

I know that the CA UC system was pointed out to be free at one time, but so were the junior colleges. All you had to pay for was books.

They're still inexpensive; right now, it's $11 per unit, although it will be increasing to $25 per unit soon because of the state's budget fiasco.

[Tsyroc]

Not everyone wants to live within commuting distance of school. I, for one, would much prefer UF over USF, and I would have to rent an apartment or dorm.

True, but that's still basically your choice. I can uderstand if you are going there because of a specific degree program but even then I would assume you think the program was worth the extra effort or cost. Maybe you have to work while you go to school. Maybe you have to take more than 4 years to graduate. If you do I bet you'll appreciate it more than if you just had it all handed to you.

American's in particular have shown that most of us will take "free" stuff for granted.

Why wait until 24, though, if you don't plan on joining the military?

The government's free grant bit is based on how much money you make. However there's a catch. If you are under 24 and your parents can still claim you as a dependant it's their income that counts towards your financial aid. If your parents are poor or you can convince the financial aid office that you are financially seperated from them (ie. own your own) then you'll qualify for a government grant and likely a bunch of other financial aid.

It's a bit of a benefit to veterans that they are automaically considered eligible for grants, assuming their income doesn't exceed a certain amount. There aren't a lot of benefits for veterans anymore but that's one of them.

OTOH, there are those who go to expensive schools with excellent programs and have little choice in the matter if they wish to attend. MIT, Northwestern University, Duke, Princeton - those are all pricey schools.

Aren't all of those private schools though? You can generally get a good education from public schools for much cheaper. In some cases a degree from a "top" school may help you get a job but most of the time it just sounds more impressive.

Having gone to both a junior college and a state university I have seen a lot of people just shit away an education that they were supposedly paying for. Why would you pay money and then hardly ever show up on a regular basis or do the work? So I think people should be paying for college either that or they need a lot stricter requirements, both for entrance and for remaining.

If my tax dollars are going to pay to send you to school you better not be banging and boozing your brains out instead of attending class.

I would love to see more people going to college as long as the influx of more people doesn't mean college ends up falling under the extreme pc restrictions that high schools do.

[phongn]

Not everyone wants to live within commuting distance of school. I, for one, would much prefer UF over USF, and I would have to rent an apartment or dorm.

True, but that's still basically your choice. I can uderstand if you are going there because of a specific degree program but even then I would assume you think the program was worth the extra effort or cost.

UF is superior to USF in virtually all areas (and both are superior to the local community college, SPC).

The problem is that the marginal cost of attending a far-away school is much higher - and sometimes you must attend that school. For example, Boeing will only accept Aeronautical Engineering graduates from UF in Florida - no other college will do, no matter how good (e.g. Embry-Riddle). A student now must decide to go there.

In this case, a student must take into account the extra cost of attending said school. Or even if they want a better education - you can't just ignore this factor!

Also, while your school may only be $2500 or so for tuition+books, mine is nearly $3300+books - quite a bit more.

Maybe you have to work while you go to school. Maybe you have to take more than 4 years to graduate. If you do I bet you'll appreciate it more than if you just had it all handed to you.

No-one here gets their degree handed to them, scholarship, grant or no aid. Even here at USF.

The government's free grant bit is based on how much money you make. However there's a catch. If you are under 24 and your parents can still claim you as a dependant it's their income that counts towards your financial aid. If your parents are poor or you can convince the financial aid office that you are financially seperated from them (ie. own your own) then you'll qualify for a government grant and likely a bunch of other financial aid.

I know the FAFSA rules, but still - you implied that someone should wait as they'd get better financial aid.

Aren't all of those private schools though? You can generally get a good education from public schools for much cheaper. In some cases a degree from a "top" school may help you get a job but most of the time it just sounds more impressive.

They're good, and they'll help you get into a graduate program assuming you do well. I went to Northwestern for a year, and I assure you that it's quality of education is better than USF. Much better.

If my tax dollars are going to pay to send you to school you better not be banging and boozing your brains out instead of attending class.

I had a friend (Irish descent) who was always drunk - and got straight-As at NU's engineering program.