Moderator: Vympel
Nope. But I don't even know if Fett was originally supposed to be a Mandalorian or if he just picked up the armor at a surplus store.Sidewinder wrote:That's 100 times better than most of the shit in the EU. Have you or Coalition written any fanfics featuring Mandalorians?
That would be a nice explanation, but I'll be honest with you: I've read Dark Empire from e-cover to e-cover, and I haven't seen a ghost of a shred of evidence that supports the idea that Luke Skywalker is "more powerful" than Darth Sidious, even at this point. But I do recall getting into a debate with someone on these forums (was it you?) regarding the definition of "powerful". I personally decide on who is "more powerful" based on who is stronger, i.e: does combatant A exceed combatant B in combat ability, Force technique, and raw strength?havokeff wrote:I think that a nice explanation is that Luke has become more powerful than Palpatine, just like he said Anakin would one day be, and he just can't see the future of Luke and it fucks him up. Sorta like how Palpatine clouded the future for Yoda.
DESB says he needed a replacement for Vader for his Shadow Hand to work. I suppose he was counting on controlling Luke's power in the Force by personally dominating him. Same logic goes for converting and dominating Anakin. It must personally increase Sidious' power and influence and ability. Also, in ROTJ, Vader was still alive when he gave up on Luke. He had a fall back.Boeing 757 wrote:Possibly the worst plotline of DE is this: turning Luke to the dark side--again. Why would Palpatine attempt Luke's conversion once more when Luke made his stance quite clear at Endor? Why also didn't the Emperor take the nearest oppurtunity to wipe Luke out as soon as possible once his whereabouts were known? One can say that the Emperor "forsaw" Luke's turning (as he claimed) and hence his opinion of Luke's conversion could've been mitigated. But even if this is true, does this sound anything like the Palpatine we come to know in the films? I mean, the Emperor was seriously PISSED at Luke for not turning at Endor. Angry enough to kill him.
1.) Palpatine was extremely personally popular amongst the common people during his reign and this personal prestige probably was retained during his restoration, and can be attributed to the Empire's massive gain in fortune.So ergo...six years after his empire has been splintered, six years after his resources have been reduced, and six years after his name has lost the influence to inspire fear, the authors of DE are telling the SW fanbase that the Emperor would just shrug this off and ask Luke to happily take his hand again? I sure as hell don't buy it. Worst of all, the clone Emperor decided to convert Luke not just once, but twice after Luke destroyed his best clones and his shriveled body on Byss!
This doesn't sound anything like the master manipulator whom we know to think actions through, or is willing to dispense all his apprentices for the cause of ruling the galaxy. Palpatine's most favorable quality in choosing servants is their loyalty to him and their ability to serve his plans(which is why slippery disciples such as Jerec never got too far beyond Vader).
This is Mara Jade's version. She also deluded she was a special assistant to Palpatine, as opposed to one of many Hands. More likely from the filmic canon is he was testing Skywalker.Luke definately has neither. Other EU sources depict the Emperor as being unsure of Luke's usefulness, causing the Emperor to send his servants after him. In fact, the whole point of Mara Jade is to kill Luke so that Vader won't be able to turn on the Emperor with Luke at his side.
Actually no, he did have a daughter. So at least once for Boba.Galvatron wrote:And yet a permavirgin, according to the EU.havokeff wrote:Boba Fett being a ladies man in the ROTJ SE.
And this personally justifies the Emperor not blowing Luke to hell for all of the blows he's commited against the Empire? There's many replacements available to carry on Operation Shadow Hand, but instead he has to search the one person who annihilated the Empire's final victory. He could even grant the power of the dark side like he does in DEII if he can't find people. How far does a madman increase his ability before destroying his own work? I really don't think Luke should have made much of a difference, in fact, he's actions at Endor prove how much of a threat he was capable of being. Yet we have an Emperor in DE who mildly ignores this not once, but numerous times, showing how unrealistic the DE authors were.Illuminatus Primus wrote:DESB says he needed a replacement for Vader for his Shadow Hand to work. I suppose he was counting on controlling Luke's power in the Force by personally dominating him. Same logic goes for converting and dominating Anakin. It must personally increase Sidious' power and influence and ability. Also, in ROTJ, Vader was still alive when he gave up on Luke. He had a fall back.Boeing 757 wrote:Possibly the worst plotline of DE is this: turning Luke to the dark side--again. Why would Palpatine attempt Luke's conversion once more when Luke made his stance quite clear at Endor? Why also didn't the Emperor take the nearest oppurtunity to wipe Luke out as soon as possible once his whereabouts were known? One can say that the Emperor "forsaw" Luke's turning (as he claimed) and hence his opinion of Luke's conversion could've been mitigated. But even if this is true, does this sound anything like the Palpatine we come to know in the films? I mean, the Emperor was seriously PISSED at Luke for not turning at Endor. Angry enough to kill him.
How so? Does an Emperor known for his humility and originality rise back from the dead and expect to be greeted as if nothing ever happened? Remember, the public doesn't even know he's a Sith, let alone that he can resurrect from the dead! Do you actually believe the citizens of the Galactic Empire would believe such an improbable tale and hail him as legitimate?1.) Palpatine was extremely personally popular amongst the common people during his reign and this personal prestige probably was retained during his restoration, and can be attributed to the Empire's massive gain in fortune.
Yes, the same Vader who does everything the Emperor wants him to do. The same Vader who's known as the Emperor's right hand man. If the Emperor tells him to jump, Vader asks "How high?" I'm sure all of the Emperor's most distinguised servants want to surpass him too, and the Emperor probably knows it, but as long as they can't act on that threat and have a high degree of use they can be tolerated. Vader fits in that category. But Luke?You mean like Vader, who was fantasizing about murdering Palpatine and usurping the Sith Mastery from the first day on the job?
ROTJ confirms he was very interested in converting Luke, and that's the paramount source.
). Numerous times? We're talking about DE - not DE2 or EE. Anywho, there were literally ten-thousand Jedi in TPM. Why choose the volatile and more powerful Anakin Skywalker? Because he's better and more of a challenge. You're saying this is out of character or unreasonable for Palpatine when it is in fact who he has always been, and hubris is not something limited merely to the powerful men of fantastic fiction.Boeing 757 wrote:And this personally justifies the Emperor not blowing Luke to hell for all of the blows he's commited against the Empire? There's many replacements available to carry on Operation Shadow Hand, but instead he has to search the one person who annihilated the Empire's final victory. He could even grant the power of the dark side like he does in DEII if he can't find people. How far does a madman increase his ability before destroying his own work? I really don't think Luke should have made much of a difference, in fact, he's actions at Endor prove how much of a threat he was capable of being. Yet we have an Emperor in DE who mildly ignores this not once, but numerous times, showing how unrealistic the DE authors were.
All these arguments could apply to ROTS and Lord Vader, just as easily. Even worse, Lord Vader IMMEDIATELY wanted to usurp Palpatine's throne and Sith Mastery, and at that time Palpatine had no recourse to reincarnation. This is part of Palpatine's personality and the general expected tendency for godlike beings and powerful men. Either you think Lucas' writing is retarded and you don't like STAR WARS in general - that is, your complaint is genuine and not just about DE - or you're unfairly maligning DE for what is a constant throughout the saga.The SW galaxy is a huge place. Wouldn't it be wiser to find a number of individuals capable of complementing his Shadow hand instead, perhaps beings with Force abilities on par with Darth Maul or Tyranus? These beings could be raised from the get go to be utterly submissive and they'd also be more flexible and mobile to move about the Empire.
Because he is more powerful. Why recruit and rely upon a loose cannon like Anakin Skywalker?Why the need to waste so much time and resources on one individual (one who constantly fucks up the Empire's victories I might add) to the point where those actions eventually destroy the Empire's plans time and time again?
People believed throughout history that beloved leaders could return to them. Many a pretender has claimed they went into hiding when forced out by their enemies and are ready to return to lead their people. In STAR WARS, Palpatine was a beloved secular demigod - its said in the ROTJ novelisation. After Endor there was a popular cult foretelling his return: the Church of the Dark Side. The same citizens were terrified of and - even the main characters - made up implausible theories for how the terrifying but dramatically less prestigious and influential Grand Admiral Thrawn could return - not five or six but ten years later and with much fewer resources to claim. Yet it is particular to DE that his cult of personality of the Emperor is implausible and silly?How so? Does an Emperor known for his humility and originality rise back from the dead and expect to be greeted as if nothing ever happened? Remember, the public doesn't even know he's a Sith, let alone that he can resurrect from the dead! Do you actually believe the citizens of the Galactic Empire would believe such an improbable tale and hail him as legitimate?
The Deep Core is not a holding of remarkable resources or population or industry. You're talking about the same man who, filmically-speaking, ran two sides of the same galaxy-shattering civil war without anyone the wiser - yet after he had an all-encompassing, universal cult of personality, ruled as indisputed autocrat for a quarter century, and disappeared for much less time than transpired prior to the lamented and feared return nine years later of GADM Thrawn - is implausible? He had unlimited public prestige yet the various courtiers, warlords, and provisional government organs were just going to ignore his return? And this is IGNORING the kind of intrigue he performed during the Clone War and prior. This is ignoring his heirarchs and spies and cultists. This is ignoring his corporate minions, agents in place, etc.Or that political leaders of the post Endor Empire would believe this willingly without ample proof and just hand over their personal domains to this new imposter? No, I think instead clone Palpatine most likely regained the Deep Core holdings with his godlike powers (that would make him seem even more unlike the original Emperor whom the galaxy feared), allowing him to retake the majority of the galaxy for the ride.
A better comparison would be Imperator Caesar Augustus, or Kim Jong-il. Like it or not, this kind of pretendership is HISTORICALLY precedented. Maybe it is your background of comparison which is deficient and not the authorship.The equivalent is like George W. Bush dying at the beginning of his second term, being buried, and then magically appearing to resume the US Presidency. Not only would that be incredulous, but so far out of left field that it sound like some crazy plot to usurp the US government. No one would believe him or his story.
Yet Vader dreamed of killing Palpatine literally first day on the job and this is before the suit and whilst Palpatine had no reincarnation to fall back on.Palpatine is gone as far as the galaxy proper is concerned. Another reason for Luke's death at the loss of that prestige. That the clone Emperor didn't erradicate him at the first oppurtunity (and I'll make that distinction of him not being original) shows how great of a genius he truly is--and how unrealistic the authors of DE are.
Obviously you haven't read the ROTS novelisation. Or even seen the film. But that's not my problem. This is precedented as part of who Palpatine is, its not DE's sole fault, its a filmic precedent, and its certainly not out of character for powerful autocrats.Yes, the same Vader who does everything the Emperor wants him to do. The same Vader who's known as the Emperor's right hand man. If the Emperor tells him to jump, Vader asks "How high?" I'm sure all of the Emperor's most distinguised servants want to surpass him too, and the Emperor probably knows it, but as long as they can't act on that threat and have a high degree of use they can be tolerated. Vader fits in that category. But Luke?
"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."Luke defied the Emperor's will outright, and further ruined his realm and his name. If the clone Emperor were any bright he'd of bitchsmacked that farmboy back to Tatooine as soon as he came to Byss. Instead we get a story where the Emperor not only pursues Luke once, but AGAIN after Luke trashes his clones, his Devastators, and his Eclipse.
And what you just said was that ROTJ is somehow not part of the same mistakes? That's filmic and written by GL's hand. Its not Dark Empire. Its Star Wars.Which is before Luke forces Vader to kill his master, thus trashing the Empire and throne which he strived to build. Look, good sir, I'm not saying DE isn't canon. All I'm saying is that I think DE makes Palpatine look like a moronic jack ass. It degrades his character. The story has a LOT of potential, but it also has a lot of bull shit stuff in it as well (it is a comic book after all, and also a part of the glorious EU
Wasn't that the original story, anyway? He was Jaster Mareel, got in trouble, sometime later he finds the armor and becomes Boba Fett, galactic badass (simplifying, I know).Galvatron wrote:Nope. But I don't even know if Fett was originally supposed to be a Mandalorian or if he just picked up the armor at a surplus store.
I would prefer that over the "blood fued" he apparently goes on to develop. Granted it's understandable given what happened, but I'd rather not have it than the "galaxy's best and most feared bounty hunter" always getting one upped by Han Solo (ok, so I'm just annoyed he was utterly duped by the Solo twins in the YJK series...damn you KJA!)Galvatron wrote:I just want him to act like a bounty hunter. His employer dies. There goes his meal ticket. Better drop everything and find some work.
"No hard feelings, right? Solo?"
