Traviss's True Colors. Uh, what...?

[Havok]

Sorry for the double post, but is it just me or is the response to True Colors much less enthusiastic than what one might have expected? It's much less discussed on for example the official forums and TFN than other recent EU material.

Perhaps the rest of the SW fan base is starting to catch on to what we already know?

[Lord Poe]

I'm actually getting physically ill at the entire Star Wars fanbase. I mean, some idiot could write that Anakin had a pair of balls hanging from his chin in AOTC, and these assholes would say, hmm, let's see how we can work this into the canon. Don't wanna throw anything out!

[montypython]

I'm actually getting physically ill at the entire Star Wars fanbase. I mean, some idiot could write that Anakin had a pair of balls hanging from his chin in AOTC, and these assholes would say, hmm, let's see how we can work this into the canon. Don't wanna throw anything out!

When too much BS accumulates it may often be better to just throw stuff out than to go through contortions to fit every little bit in.

[Darth Servo]

Why does Traviss even write for the SW franchise when she clearly hates it and wants to make it as retarded as possible? Is Lucas really paying this idiot that much?

Hey, give ME some of that. I could write better shit than her.

[Mange]

While the reviews over at TFN are not what I would call balanced, it's interesting to see the trend with regards to the ratings of Traviss's novels (see the second post):

+http://boards.theforce.net/literature/b ... 4330/p1/?9

Hard Contact was indeed a fairly good novel and made me feel at the time it was released that the EU had gained a promising new author, but boy did I fool myself...

[Mange]

I'm actually getting physically ill at the entire Star Wars fanbase. I mean, some idiot could write that Anakin had a pair of balls hanging from his chin in AOTC, and these assholes would say, hmm, let's see how we can work this into the canon. Don't wanna throw anything out!

Indeed.

And with regards to the "Clone Controversy", quite a few interesting things can be found in the public AOTC screenplay:

* The distinction between 'items' (as the clone troopers on the parade ground are referred to by Lama Su) and 'units'.

* This rather interesting piece of dialog:

Oh, we keep him here. After a few hundred thousand clones, the genetic pattern starts to fade, so we take a fresh supply. He lives here, but he's free to come and go as he pleases.

[Lord Pounder]

Travis being a fucking moron is hardly news. To my shame I've started to catch up on the LotF books, a lose aquaintance buys them and I borrow them. As bad as some of the books are, longrange turbolasers anyone, the Travis books are a real abomination. The other authors tell the story while she writes about Boba land. Here is an example in Sacrifice the Mandalorians find a shit load of new Mandaloian steel and begin to rearm, 1 million fighters are a threat to galactic stability apparently, yet come Inferno the Mandalorians get no mention and the only mention of Boba Fett is in regards to Jacen torturing his daughter. Maybe I'm biased because I never wanted to garrotte Wayne Poe (yet) but to me that stinks of an author persuing her own agenda.

[Mange]

From what I've been able to gather, True Colors pushes a size of the droid army similar to the size hinted at in Odds (a couple of hundred million droids).

[Illuminatus Primus]

She's a fucking retard. 1e8 droids for a galaxy? A coup'd'etat being a standing order of the armed forces? Only in Traviss Land.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

And then she will scream bloody murder at criticism. Get a life woman. No one cares about a weak woman go crying because of someone point out she forget to bring her brains.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Well clearly you're all sexist pigs and talifans, good thing you're all just sockpuppets since there's only a dozen or so of you.

[Mange]

According to the thread over at TFN, True Colors occupies the 15th spot on the New York Times bestseller list (I've checked, but it doesn't appear to be on the list which is published online).
What surprises me is that if it has sold that well, why is it so little talked about around the various forums?

[Galvatron]

And then she will scream bloody murder at criticism. Get a life woman. No one cares about a weak woman go crying because of someone point out she forget to bring her brains.

She just needs a good deep-dicking.

[Darth Fanboy]

And then she will scream bloody murder at criticism. Get a life woman. No one cares about a weak woman go crying because of someone point out she forget to bring her brains.

She just needs a good deep-dicking.

Congratluations son, thanks for volunteering.

If the people who are buying True Colors aren't talking about, then maybe perhaps people are starting to realize that she is a hack. This is what happens when you hand the reins over to fangirls (I use the term in the loosest sense as she doesn't even appear to be human, let alone female).

[NecronLord]

She just needs a good deep-dicking.

I doubt she wants for company that much. She's a nice enough person, or at least, not the rabid trachea-ripping monster she is on the internet. It's just that she clearly has really really poor numeracy.

I love the idea that the clones can defeat droids with not less than 16 to one odds. Has she even watched the films? They're sometimes depicted as better (though not compared with Droidekas and other heavy droids) but notwhere near that much better.

As for Order 66, well. That's Lucas' fault. He could have had Palpatine signal all the clone troopers with "Your commander is a traitor. Kill him." in that scene...

[PainRack]

She's a fucking retard. 1e8 droids for a galaxy? A coup'd'etat being a standing order of the armed forces? Only in Traviss Land.

Order 66.

[Darth Fanboy]

Order 66 wasn't a coup. The Jedi weren't the government, nor were they the ones in control of the government.

[Mange]

Order 66 wasn't a coup. The Jedi weren't the government, nor were they the ones in control of the government.

I believe he referred to Order 65.

[Havok]

Order 66 wasn't a coup. The Jedi weren't the government, nor were they the ones in control of the government.

I believe he referred to Order 65.

No it's 66. He is saying the Clones were ordered to kill their commanders.

[DogsOfWar]

Traviss is a Trekkie spy, sent to poison the EU with Trekkie-style crap until the moment of truth when she will show her True Colors and lead the Trektards on a glorious crusade against all Star Wars. Or maybe just a third-rate author, hard to tell which.

As far as I'm concerned, everything she writes is non-canon.

[NecronLord]

Order 65 isn't a coup, either. It is simply a standing order that says 'the Chancellor has been impeached, detain him.' It explicitly makes reference to a Senate majority or the Chancellor being determined unfit for duty.

Order 65: In the event of either (i) a majority in the Senate declaring the Supreme Commander (Chancellor) to be unfit to issue orders, or (ii) the Security Council declaring him to be unfit to issue orders, and an authenticated order being received by the GAR, commanders shall be authorized to detain the Supreme Commander, with lethal force if necessary, and command of the GAR shall fall to the acting Chancellor until a successor is appointed or alternative authority identified as outlined in Section 6 (iv).

Black Rod and the Serjeant-at-Arms of the House of Commons in this country have the power to detain the Prime Minister if he's impeached. Doesn't mean it would be a coup if it were to happen. Simply an arrest of the head of government.

[Mange]

Order 65 isn't a coup, either. It is simply a standing order that says 'the Chancellor has been impeached, detain him.' It explicitly makes reference to a Senate majority or the Chancellor being determined unfit for duty.

Order 65: In the event of either (i) a majority in the Senate declaring the Supreme Commander (Chancellor) to be unfit to issue orders, or (ii) the Security Council declaring him to be unfit to issue orders, and an authenticated order being received by the GAR, commanders shall be authorized to detain the Supreme Commander, with lethal force if necessary, and command of the GAR shall fall to the acting Chancellor until a successor is appointed or alternative authority identified as outlined in Section 6 (iv).

Black Rod and the Serjeant-at-Arms of the House of Commons in this country have the power to detain the Prime Minister if he's impeached. Doesn't mean it would be a coup if it were to happen. Simply an arrest of the head of government.

Well, the whole point is, which I've mentioned earlier, is that the ROTS novelization explicitly states that Palpatine didn't become Supreme Commander until after the Battle of Coruscant and that the Jedi Council was in charge of leading the GAR. Otherwise you might be correct.

[NecronLord]

Well, the whole point is, which I've mentioned earlier, is that the ROTS novelization explicitly states that Palpatine didn't become Supreme Commander until after the Battle of Coruscant and that the Jedi Council was in charge of leading the GAR. Otherwise you might be correct.

So? Perhaps that means is that they previously had the power to arrest their CIC (Yoda?) if appropriately authorised, and that this order had 'chancellor' inserted in brackets when the office was merged with the cancellor's office.

Of course, depending on interpretation, there can be more than one 'supreme commander' of an army at any given time.

In perhaps a more relevant comparison is the United States. Although the Constitution has (Article II Section 2) "The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States;" Despite this, it is my understanding that Governors (or at least some of them) are commanders in chief of thier militias when not fedralized. From the Goldwater Nichols act, until the latest administration, also, the title of CINC has been used by various regional commanders of the United States forces, for example, Stormin' Norman, was CINC of CENTCOM, even though he was clearly inferior in the chain of commander to the President.

For a a sillier and less relevant example, the Dalek Empire audio series in Dr Who, in order to explain inconsistant terminology used over the years established that said villains a number of Supreme Leaders, with four (at least) Supreme Controllers directing portions of their offensives, a Dalek Supreme, who is the right hand tentacle-monster-in-a-can of their actual supreme leader, the Emperor. They also had a Supreme Council, which has an unknown role.

There could be half a dozen supreme commanders, in a galaxy wide war, at various levels of importance. While Palpatine may have taken supreme and direct control of military forces (as Linclon reportedly considered, and let's remember, he is Evil-Lincoln) after the Battle of Coruscant (presumably to re-invest some powers in governors - see above - later) that doesn't mean the term Supreme Commander could not have applied to him before that.

[Mange]

Well, the whole point is, which I've mentioned earlier, is that the ROTS novelization explicitly states that Palpatine didn't become Supreme Commander until after the Battle of Coruscant and that the Jedi Council was in charge of leading the GAR. Otherwise you might be correct.

So?

So continuity is getting sloppier and sloppier, that's what.

Perhaps that means is that they previously had the power to arrest their CIC (Yoda?) if appropriately authorised, and that this order had 'chancellor' inserted in brackets when the office was merged with the cancellor's office.

Of course, depending on interpretation, there can be more than one 'supreme commander' of an army at any given time.

[Snip]

There could be half a dozen supreme commanders, in a galaxy wide war, at various levels of importance. While Palpatine may have taken supreme and direct control of military forces (as Linclon reportedly considered, and let's remember, he is Evil-Lincoln) after the Battle of Coruscant (presumably to re-invest some powers in governors - see above - later) that doesn't mean the term Supreme Commander could not have applied to him before that.

One can't rule out the possibility of course, but the quote from the ROTS novelization is pretty unambiguous. From the OP:

[Anakin] "The constitutional amendment bringing the Jedi under the Chancellor's Office naturally includes troops commanded by Jedi. Palpatine is now Supreme Commander of the Grand Army of the Republic."

The novel further makes it clear that it was the Jedi (or more specifically, the Jedi Council) that directed the GAR. On the other hand, the Jedi didn't any say when it came to the politics of the war (which Palpatine of course controlled through the Senate).

[NecronLord]

Direct commander, yes.

Are you suggesting the 'Grand Army of the Republic' was the Jedi's private army¹ before that, and that Palpatine wasn't allowed to set them political level objectives? Otherwise, the most one can argue is that he claimed the title of supreme commander and direct strategic control after the Battle of Coruscant. Before that, Palpatine was clearly directing the Army, although the jedi resented it, at some level. Witness his appointment of Anakin as commander of the fighter forces over Muunilist in the Clone Wars season one. The political commander is in colloquial terms, the supreme commander. He may well have held that title from the commissioning of the army, or the Order 65 quote we've got may be from a time after Palpatine assumed the office of Supreme Commander.

Never mind that the RotS novel itself is an example of the poor continuity. We've already had it established that the Jedi are under the de facto direction of the Chancellor's office, from the opening crawl of TPM ("While the Congress of the Republic endlessly debates this alarming chain of events, the Supreme Chancellor has secretly dispatched two Jedi Knights, the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy, to settle the conflict...") then of course, there's the EU idea that the Jedi get their marching orders from the Judicial Department, a sub-section of the Chancellor's Office. While the novel quote may override that, it's not as if Traviss is breaking with a monolithic edifice of canon on the matter. Both the Jedi and the army were clearly under the control of the Chancellor's Office to a greater or lesser extent before the Battle of Coruscant.

I seriously don't see the problem. It's not as though she said that a Venator has three guys on it and is primarily a Mando'a lingual school or something. She used a single term, which can easily fit the established canon in a number of ways.

¹ I am aware that a case might be made for this regarding the original clone batch from Kamino, given that the army was supposedly commissioned by the Jedi but remember "This army is for the Republic."