Powered Armor in Star Wars

[Adrian Laguna]

SW has disruptors (which can cremate a person in a single hit, even with the pistol versions)

Disruptors are also utter shit range wise. You have to use them point blanck to get any effectiveness. They're useful assassination weapons, but useless battlefield weapons.

[Megabot]

What I had in mind was more on the line of Starcraft or Metroid, where every human infantry unit we see wears such a suit. Though as MoO pointed out, such a role would be better filled by droids to begin with.

Yeah, the GalFed soldiers armour is really awesome too. Wait, it sucks and they suck and they get butchered by shit that Samus just laughs at. Not something very impressive: saying 'needs power armour' when stormie armour is probably almost as good as GalFed armour is just playing the name game.

So if I didn't mention Metroid at all I assume you'd say something about SC armor being shit due to Terran marines exploding into a puddle of blood after a few hits from claws or poison spikes, right? Though I admit that blasters are powerful enough to be able to cut either suit of armor to pieces regardless of game mechanics, making them not worth the expense in the SW universe.

[SilverWingedSeraph]

SW has disruptors (which can cremate a person in a single hit, even with the pistol versions)

Disruptors are also utter shit range wise. You have to use them point blanck to get any effectiveness. They're useful assassination weapons, but useless battlefield weapons.

Disruptor Rifles, on the other hand... probably still not great in the battlefield, but more effective than standard disruptors. I'm not sure of their status in canon, however, as they're most prominantly featured in SW videogames, to my knowledge.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Disruptor Rifles, on the other hand... probably still not great in the battlefield, but more effective than standard disruptors. I'm not sure of their status in canon, however, as they're most prominantly featured in SW videogames, to my knowledge.

I believe they were mentioned in the newer Guide to Weapon Technology or something like that.

[Lazarus]

I believe they were mentioned in the newer Guide to Weapon Technology or something like that.

Yeah they were, and are so illegal and rare that they're massively uncommon even in private collections, never mind military uses. I find it somewhat jarring that this weapon is being used as an example of SW infantry firepower; you might as well say Haywire grenades are an example of Imperial Guard weaponry. Just because the weapon or technology exists doesn't mean it provides a standard example, and the same applies to all the examples of SW power armour given so far.

And what's with the AT-PT analogy? In what way is a light mechanised vehicle (essentially a walking light tank) equivalent to an infantryman wearing powered armour? The roles and capabilities are completely different. Can you seriously imagine a platoon of AT-PT's performing a building clearance operation?

If indeed SW droids can perform every task that powered armour could be necessary for (which I agree is probably true in theory), why is this blatantly not the case in literature and on-screen? Why are human (or alien) soldiers deployed wearing stormtrooper-grade armour into situations where power armour could clearly be beneficial?

[Ritterin Sophia]

Why are human (or alien) soldiers deployed wearing stormtrooper-grade armour into situations where power armour could clearly be beneficial?

I've never heard of a hard definition of power armour, at least, not a minimum requirement. Stormtrooper Armour functions as a fully operational NBC suit and can function in vacuum, it has a power source, and utilizes multiple kinds of sensors in the helmet, that sounds like power armour to me.

[NecronLord]

And what's with the AT-PT analogy? In what way is a light mechanised vehicle (essentially a walking light tank) equivalent to an infantryman wearing powered armour? The roles and capabilities are completely different. Can you seriously imagine a platoon of AT-PT's performing a building clearance operation?

Yes.

And it's comedy gold. An entire platoon of ED-209s trying to get down the stairs.

Perhaps he means AT-RTs, which are more like 'heavy power armour' in displacement.

[Aratech]

And what's with the AT-PT analogy? In what way is a light mechanised vehicle (essentially a walking light tank) equivalent to an infantryman wearing powered armour? The roles and capabilities are completely different. Can you seriously imagine a platoon of AT-PT's performing a building clearance operation?

Yes.

And it's comedy gold. An entire platoon of ED-209s trying to get down the stairs.

Thank you, Sir, I needed that laugh.

[Terralthra]

And what's with the AT-PT analogy? In what way is a light mechanised vehicle (essentially a walking light tank) equivalent to an infantryman wearing powered armour? The roles and capabilities are completely different. Can you seriously imagine a platoon of AT-PT's performing a building clearance operation?

Yes.

And it's comedy gold. An entire platoon of ED-209s trying to get down the stairs.

Perhaps he means AT-RTs, which are more like 'heavy power armour' in displacement.

Errrr, the AT-RT is taller than the AT-PT. AT-RTs were 3.2m to the top of the control panel, and the entire torso of the operator is above that. AT-PT is just 3m to the top of the cockpit.

I mentioned AT-PTs not because they are analogous to power armor, but because, and I believe I mentioned this point specifically, it's probable, given the relative power of blasters and the strength of armor, that in order to get a significant increase in durability over non-powered armor, you have to put on enough armor thickness that you bypass the "powered armor" you're thinking of completely, ending up with something like a personal walker.

In terms of "different capabilities and roles," what exactly are you picturing when you say "infantrymen in powered armor"? I mean, when I say that, I picture Glitter Boys or SAMAS from Rifts, or Space Marines from 40k, each of which are also comparable to today's tanks in both capabilities and roles.

[Coalition]

I would argue against routine power armor for only a couple reasons:
Shoulders and hips

Imagine trying to wrap the necessary motors/synthetic muscles/'motivators' around those joints so you have enough armor protection for the armor and the meat within, while also maintaining enough flexibility to allow the meat within to move. Your shoulders have the ball joint inside the torso, while most armors try to put the ball joint outside the torso. That will cause rubbing, at the potential to put your elbow at a different location than the armor's elbow. Bend your arm then, and it goes snap.

Also, the space taken up by the meat inside could be put to better use by having the entire arm be a droid limb. There is no weak meat inside to reduce structural or physical strength, and the lack of secondary joints (the meat's elbow vs the arm's elbow) means that the full range of motion is available.

So at best, you might have light power armor that just lets your troops carry heavier weapons or help move the armor around; but WH40k Space Marine armor would be stretching it. If you need a heavy human-form trooper, go with a droid. If you just need heavy firepower, go with a tank.

[Lazarus]

it's probable, given the relative power of blasters and the strength of armor, that in order to get a significant increase in durability over non-powered armor, you have to put on enough armor thickness that you bypass the "powered armor" you're thinking of completely, ending up with something like a personal walker.

Sounds like a pretty random hypothesis to me, and either way it's extremely general, not taking into account the user benefits that powered armour bestows beyond the damage absorption. I'm talking about enhanced speed, strength and agility, internal medical monitors and treatment systems etc etc, the kind of things which Mjolnir armour, 40K Power Armour, and god knows how many other instances of combat suits have, and SW infantry lack, when they blatantly have the technology to build them.

It would be advantageous to stormtroopers to be able to run at 30 mph, jump 20 metres and be able to completely outmatch almost any adversary in combat by massively superior speed, strength and agility. With SW technology, a suit that includes these capabilities should be well within the Empires reach.

In terms of "different capabilities and roles," what exactly are you picturing when you say "infantrymen in powered armor"? I mean, when I say that, I picture Glitter Boys or SAMAS from Rifts, or Space Marines from 40k, each of which are also comparable to today's tanks in both capabilities and roles.

Bullshit, Space Marines are nothing like tanks. They are infantry, and fulfill the traditional roles of infantry. The fact they are capable of functions on top of those doesn't make them armoured vehicles. An Apache gunship can be used as an anti-tank weapon, does that make it a self-propelled gun?

When I say 'infantry in powered armour', the way in which their role differs from armoured vehicles is the same way the role of infantry NOT in powered armour differ from armoured vehicles. I'm not sure whether you're asking me to explain this difference so I'll leave it at that...

I would argue against routine power armor for only a couple reasons:
Shoulders and hips

Have you ever seen an illustration of powered armour? Look at the joints. They look like they work fine to me. Mjolnir, for example, is a flexible suit with rigid armour plates over none-flexing areas (or overlapping plates on some slightly-flexing ones like inner thighs). 40K power armour uses either a similar system, or in the case of Space Marine armour shoulders, exterior plates over the joints to protect the vulnerable areas. Some types have no rigid sections at all.

Also, the space taken up by the meat inside could be put to better use by having the entire arm be a droid limb.

I agree, but as I have already said, if this is indeed the case, then why is it not shown? Why are biological troops repeatedly deployed into scenarios where they would benefit from powered armour and, therefore, where droids would be better suited?

Either way, there are times when you need biological troops, so for those times powered armour would massively enhance survivability and effectiveness. 'But maybe it's not cost-effective!' is rubbish - this is the Empire, they build battle moons as a hobby.

[NecronLord]

Errrr, the AT-RT is taller than the AT-PT. AT-RTs were 3.2m to the top of the control panel, and the entire torso of the operator is above that. AT-PT is just 3m to the top of the cockpit.

The AT-RT is also much less massive, as a whole, and much less likely to enter a building and immediately fall through to the basement. Not to mention shorter (thus more easily able to turn in enclosed conditions) and narrower.

And actually with a history of being used indoors (admittedly in the Jedi temple, but hey...)

In terms of "different capabilities and roles," what exactly are you picturing when you say "infantrymen in powered armor"? I mean, when I say that, I picture Glitter Boys or SAMAS from Rifts, or Space Marines from 40k, each of which are also comparable to today's tanks in both capabilities and roles.

I believe the OPer has already suggested he was thinking along the lines of Starcraft, where every grunt has it.

[Terralthra]

Sounds like a pretty random hypothesis to me, and either way it's extremely general, not taking into account the user benefits that powered armour bestows beyond the damage absorption. I'm talking about enhanced speed, strength and agility, internal medical monitors and treatment systems etc etc, the kind of things which Mjolnir armour, 40K Power Armour, and god knows how many other instances of combat suits have, and SW infantry lack, when they blatantly have the technology to build them.

It would be advantageous to stormtroopers to be able to run at 30 mph, jump 20 metres and be able to completely outmatch almost any adversary in combat by massively superior speed, strength and agility. With SW technology, a suit that includes these capabilities should be well within the Empires reach.

At what cost? They are indoctrinated from 8-10 years old and undergo massive surgical augmentation, which only a small fraction actually survive. You can't just put a normal human into a suit of space marine armor and expect him or her to function effectively. The weight of the suit of armor would crush them, for one. Your argument appears to be "but the Empire is so powerful that none of that would be necessary" based on...what?

The fact that power armor isn't used widely or frequently indicates the exact opposite: the Empire can not make the type of strength and agility enhancing power armor you are thinking of in an effective and efficient way.

'But maybe it's not cost-effective!' is rubbish - this is the Empire, they build battle moons as a hobby.

They build battle moons because to overcome a planetary shield with conventional starships is ineffective as a strategy, and as a weapon of terror to implement the Tarkin doctrine. Stormtroopers are already pretty significantly better than any ground infantry they oppose regularly (Noghri are an outlier example, and a dumb one at that).

Bullshit, Space Marines are nothing like tanks. They are infantry, and fulfill the traditional roles of infantry. The fact they are capable of functions on top of those doesn't make them armoured vehicles. An Apache gunship can be used as an anti-tank weapon, does that make it a self-propelled gun?

When I say 'infantry in powered armour', the way in which their role differs from armoured vehicles is the same way the role of infantry NOT in powered armour differ from armoured vehicles. I'm not sure whether you're asking me to explain this difference so I'll leave it at that...

I'm not sure where you get that. For one, Space Marines are 3 meters tall and encased in ceramic and metal armor that weighs at least a ton. The infantry of the Imperium of Man is the Imperial Guard. The books and material are fairly clear: the Space Marines are elite forces, designed for two missions: surgical, hit-and-fade strikes, and defending stationary objectives that must not fall. They do not wage prolonged ground campaigns. They do not typically engage in non-critical defense and patrol missions. They are neither equipped nor trained for those sorts of battles: that's what the IG are for.

[nightmare]

Disruptor Rifles, on the other hand... probably still not great in the battlefield, but more effective than standard disruptors. I'm not sure of their status in canon, however, as they're most prominantly featured in SW videogames, to my knowledge.

I believe they were mentioned in the newer Guide to Weapon Technology or something like that.

Yeah they were, and are so illegal and rare that they're massively uncommon even in private collections, never mind military uses. I find it somewhat jarring that this weapon is being used as an example of SW infantry firepower; you might as well say Haywire grenades are an example of Imperial Guard weaponry. Just because the weapon or technology exists doesn't mean it provides a standard example, and the same applies to all the examples of SW power armour given so far.

Disruptors were canon long before seen in games. Secondly, the Empire used military disruptors, not criminal junk. Plus there's the various heavy weapons Connor briefly mentioned, assault cannons, heavy repeaters and missiles for instance. You can also rack up standard blasters to rather serious blasts as long as you don't care about ammo conservation.

[Lazarus]

At what cost? They are indoctrinated from 8-10 years old and undergo massive surgical augmentation, which only a small fraction actually survive.

Because of course, I was talking about training Space Marines in SW.

Oh wait, thats completely different to what I was saying. Read the post, I said NOTHING about changing the person inside the armour, and don't even try 'well you can't use SM armour without augmentation!' because that's also twisting my point. I'm using SM armour as an EXAMPLE of suit design, I'm not saying the Empire should build copies. My reference to enhancements are abilities that can be bestowed by suit features, not personal augmentation.

The fact that power armor isn't used widely or frequently indicates the exact opposite: the Empire can not make the type of strength and agility enhancing power armor you are thinking of in an effective and efficient way.

If this is indeed the case, why is it? If they can build a Death Star, why can't they build a powered suit that enhances physical capability, survivability and effectiveness through technology? Stormtrooper armour goes some small way towards this, but survivability against energy weapons is still quite poor, there's no integration between the user and the suit, no medical functions, no physical enhancements, and to top it all off it decreases the users agility massively, rather than increasing it. If the UNSC can build Mjolnir and SPI armour (a massively lower tech culture than the Empire), why can't the Empire?

Of course, it's probably the case that the answer to this question is 'because George Lucas didn't think of it and everyone else ran with it'.

Stormtroopers are already pretty significantly better than any ground infantry they oppose regularly

US army troops are already significantly better than any ground infantry they oppose regularly, and have been for decades, but that doesn't stop research efforts to make them MORE effective. An equivalent RL scenario is having technology available to make ballistic protection which is 100% effective against anything up to and including RPG's, and not using it for no apparent reason.

the Space Marines are elite forces, designed for two missions: surgical, hit-and-fade strikes, and defending stationary objectives that must not fall. They do not wage prolonged ground campaigns. They do not typically engage in non-critical defense and patrol missions. They are neither equipped nor trained for those sorts of battles: that's what the IG are for.

Clearly you have absolutely no idea about the battlefield role of a tank. Show me tanks that perform hit and fade strikes, stealth infiltration and sabotage, boarding operations, and all the other infantry roles that the SM perform that can only be performed by infantry. SM perform NOTHING LIKE armoured vehicles, they are heavy infantry.

Secondly, the Empire used military disruptors, not criminal junk.

Source? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just intrigued.

Plus there's the various heavy weapons Connor briefly mentioned, assault cannons, heavy repeaters and missiles for instance.

Are any of those capable of completely disintegrating a man in one shot? My point was that taking the disruptor as a standard example of SW infantry level firepower is unfair because they are so rare.

[Terralthra]

At what cost? They are indoctrinated from 8-10 years old and undergo massive surgical augmentation, which only a small fraction actually survive.

Because of course, I was talking about training Space Marines in SW.

Oh wait, thats completely different to what I was saying. Read the post, I said NOTHING about changing the person inside the armour, and don't even try 'well you can't use SM armour without augmentation!' because that's also twisting my point. I'm using SM armour as an EXAMPLE of suit design, I'm not saying the Empire should build copies. My reference to enhancements are abilities that can be bestowed by suit features, not personal augmentation.

Do you have any sources on power armor that actually does any of the things you mentioned without the wearer being heavily modified or augmented? I mean, honestly, the only power armor wearers who are normal humans that I personally know of are Terran Space Marines from StarCraft, and they don't seem to move very fast or jump very high or be invincible to small arms fire at all.

The fact that power armor isn't used widely or frequently indicates the exact opposite: the Empire can not make the type of strength and agility enhancing power armor you are thinking of in an effective and efficient way.

If this is indeed the case, why is it? If they can build a Death Star, why can't they build a powered suit that enhances physical capability, survivability and effectiveness through technology? Stormtrooper armour goes some small way towards this, but survivability against energy weapons is still quite poor, there's no integration between the user and the suit, no medical functions, no physical enhancements, and to top it all off it decreases the users agility massively, rather than increasing it. If the UNSC can build Mjolnir and SPI armour (a massively lower tech culture than the Empire), why can't the Empire?

Of course, it's probably the case that the answer to this question is 'because George Lucas didn't think of it and everyone else ran with it'.

The Mjolnir armor which is...completely impossible for a normal human to wear? The Mjolnir armor that requires the heavily augmented SPARTAN soldiers to operate it? (75 were modified, 30 died in the process, 12 more were crippled) How much of MC's abilities are the armor, and how much are the augmentation of the wearer?

It may at this point be worth reiterating the main point I made before: maybe by the time the Empire got enough armor plating on a suit of armor to shrug off blaster bolts, they had enough armor mass that a small walker was more cost-effective. Putting that amount of armor around a person like stormtrooper armor and putting in the necessary motorization to move in a combat-effective manner, maintain life support, etc., may simply be an insurmountable goal.

Stormtroopers are already pretty significantly better than any ground infantry they oppose regularly

US army troops are already significantly better than any ground infantry they oppose regularly, and have been for decades, but that doesn't stop research efforts to make them MORE effective. An equivalent RL scenario is having technology available to make ballistic protection which is 100% effective against anything up to and including RPG's, and not using it for no apparent reason.

Well, sure. We could encase every soldier in a 24" thick suit of lead-steel alloy, rendering them invincible to RPGs. All we have to do is come up with a way for them to remain combat effective, which is a trivial technical problem for us to conquer, right? You keep saying that power armor is a trivial technical problem: it's not. Technical concerns are not "no apparent reason."

the Space Marines are elite forces, designed for two missions: surgical, hit-and-fade strikes, and defending stationary objectives that must not fall. They do not wage prolonged ground campaigns. They do not typically engage in non-critical defense and patrol missions. They are neither equipped nor trained for those sorts of battles: that's what the IG are for.

Clearly you have absolutely no idea about the battlefield role of a tank. Show me tanks that perform hit and fade strikes, stealth infiltration and sabotage, boarding operations, and all the other infantry roles that the SM perform that can only be performed by infantry. SM perform NOTHING LIKE armoured vehicles, they are heavy infantry.

Conveniently ignoring the other half of the mission profile, where the Space Marines stand in a line gunning down massive amounts of enemy infantry while enemy bullets bounce off of their massive armor. Or the parts of ground campaigns where the Space Marines are called in to break through enemy lines that are proving impregnable by regular infantry by being the armored spearhead behind which the infantry can penetrate enemy lines.

[Lazarus]

Do you have any sources on power armor that actually does any of the things you mentioned without the wearer being heavily modified or augmented?

Peter F Hamilton's Fallen Dragon, Night's Dawn Trilogy and Confederation Saga all feature combat suits with integrated weapons, electromuscle enhancements, flexible armour protection, computer systems which link with the wearer to improve effectiveness, EM warfare suites, advanced sensors... All able to be used by any human.

The first mention of powered armour I know of is in Starship Troopers, and they're unaugmented. This book created powered armour.

Lensman does so, though I've never read them myself.

There's loads of examples, just look on wiki. There's at least as many instances of non-augmented powered armour as augmented.

The Mjolnir armor which is...completely impossible for a normal human to wear? The Mjolnir armor that requires the heavily augmented SPARTAN soldiers to operate it? (75 were modified, 30 died in the process, 12 more were crippled) How much of MC's abilities are the armor, and how much are the augmentation of the wearer?

As you may have noticed, my point was that the UNSC are massively behind the empire in terms of technology, as are many other races which have mastered non-augmented powered armour (see above). If they can do it, the Empire logically can. That the UNSC version needs augmentation to use does not therefore mean that the Empire would run into the same problem despite their hugely more advanced civilization.

Putting that amount of armor around a person like stormtrooper armor and putting in the necessary motorization to move in a combat-effective manner, maintain life support, etc., may simply be an insurmountable goal.

But why would the Empire in particular run into this problem when so many other races of inferior technology have not? Why would the Empire be unable to master this relatively simple technology (in comparison to the Empire's level) which projections suggest we ourselves may possess within the next hundred years or so?

Conveniently ignoring the other half of the mission profile.

Which is, in fact, what heavy infantry do. Hence the 'heavy' part of their name. Armoured medieval troops were heavy infantry for the same reason. It doesn't matter what you come up with here, a man is not a tank is not a man, not until you put him in a vehicle, and powered armour is NOT a vehicle. Why do SM need their own tanks if they are already tanks themselves? Do you suppose modern tanks also often call in for armour support if faced with enemy armour? No, because they are the bloody armour support, which SM's are NOT.

[Connor MacLeod]

I'll touch on the two relevant points I need to address separately. First, disruptors.

Disrutpors are going to be more like the SW equivalent of meltaguns, but that's not quite a completely accurate analogy.

A disruptor is, at its essence, about the most powerful a blaster can get without being bigger. Its basically a brute force application of
blaster technology, much like the heavy blaster pistol, with many of the same advantages and limitations (greater firepower in a compact frame, but fewer shots and shorter ranges.) It packs an extremely devastating punch into a small package (a single shot can cremate a human, or vaporize starship hulls.) This does carry the drawbacks of slow rate of fire,
fewer shots (5 shots) and incredibly short range.

The reasons for this, however, are quite obvious if you've ever looked at a disruptor. They're incredibly compact weapons for their power level - about
the same size (or even smaller) than regular blaster pistols or rifles. Hell the "disrutpor rifle" isn't much bigger (subjectively) than an E-11 - it looks more like a SMG or a phaser rifle from TNG. It also lacks the long-barrels you see on many pistols and rifles, and the aperture looks very "wide bore", which can help explain the short range (it carries a huge blast of energy, but lacks the focusing gear to properly handle it.) Its compact size will also guarnatee the otherlimitations.

In othe words, the disruptor makes certain tradeoffs (range, ammo capacity, and fire ratE) for certain others (concealability and firepower.) But if you stuck a longer barrel on the disrutpor, or made it bulkier, some of those disadvatnages would disappear (although it woudln't be as concealable.) We have arguably even seen this.

By extension, t his logic also mans that "bigger" blaster weapons (the aforementioend blaster cannons) are also going to be roughl of that grade. The RASB, for example, make smention of Rebels using heavy/long rifles at Hoth that were capable of "cutting a storm trooper nearly in half" that only put "fist sized holes" in the Armour of At-ATs. Considering how bloody tough AT-AT armour is, that would take quite a bit of firepower. And that doesn't even factor in the bazooka like weapons, or the repeaters.

Likewise, as Mike has noted on his Ground Weapons small arms page.

An even more extreme example of this design philosophy is found in the Tenloss DX-2 Disruptor Pistol and DXR-6 Disruptor Rifle. An examination of the picture will reveal that both weapons are meant for extreme short range use, since even the "rifle" is no longer than a modern SMG and has no shoulder stock. The SWEGWT supports this speculation by stating that their ranges are just 7 metres and 20 metres. Ammunition capacity is also poor; both guns can fire just five shots before reloading. However, these guns are so powerful that even a single shot from the weaker pistol can disintegrate ½ m³ of durasteel armour plate! This makes them much more destructive than the normal handguns of the Empire (or the Federation), which can easily blast through rock or masonry but are ineffective against armour. The operating mechanism is actually no different than that of normal blasters; according to the SWEGWT, the only real difference is that it can "process a much greater volume of blaster gas" with each shot, thus indicating that as expected, it deliberately trades ammunition capacity for destructive power (it also means that 20 shots from a regular Blastech E-11 would have the same effect as one shot from the Disruptor).

The image of those disruptors is here You can find an image of a disrutpor with a sniper scope and longer barrel (thus denoting greater range) here

[Connor MacLeod]

And what's with the AT-PT analogy? In what way is a light mechanised vehicle (essentially a walking light tank) equivalent to an infantryman wearing powered armour? The roles and capabilities are completely different.

Gee, guess you didnt bother reading what i said:

On top of that, you also had stuff like the AT-PT (a SW version of A Sentinel) which, while not "true" power armour, sufficed for the purposes well enough and probably was better overall if you needed some sort of "power armour" type thing.

In case you have trouble reading, I never said "equivalent". If anything, its better for an infantryman, although nowhere was I assuming something as ludicrouse as "equipping every Infantryman with power armour" even if one assumed that were practical or reasonable. AT-PTs offer the potential to carry greater firepower and have greater protection (which seem to be primary arguments FOR power armour), with probably far more mobility outside of some super-human engineered supersoldier like a SPARTAN or Space Marine. And as far as the Space Marine goes, you have virutally the same height/profile. And, in case you forgot, Spacetrooper armour ("power armour") is generally referenced as being basically a vehicle as it is.
And while SPARTAN armour is definitely more compact, its not exactly "heavy-duty" protection by alot of sci fi standards. If you need something of that grade, there's Katarn armour the commandos wear. The Katarn armour could resist light laser cannons (which go up to 5 GJ per shot for antipersonnel weapons.)

Can you seriously imagine a platoon of AT-PT's performing a building clearance operation?

No, but thats what regular troops (or droids) are for. Or do you really think Darktrooper armour/Spacetrooper armour would fit through very many "man sized" openings? Nevermind something like, say, Space Marine armour.

That doesn't even account for ground pressure/noise issues, thermal signature, and all otehr sorts of lovely problems. We already had a bloody thread in OSF about power armour wanking, in case you didnt notice. Maybe you shoudl go read that and pay attention especailly to what Mike said, since he basically covered why a droid would be better than powersuited humans (for one thing you can stick treads on a droid and allow it to go faster.)

If protection is an issue, that's what personal shields are for. (They don't use them commonly because they're lousy for extended operations. They weaken quickly and draw more power.) There is evidencee officers (which presumably include stormtrooper officers) can employ it, however.

If indeed SW droids can perform every task that powered armour could be necessary for (which I agree is probably true in theory), why is this blatantly not the case in literature and on-screen? Why are human (or alien) soldiers deployed wearing stormtrooper-grade armour into situations where power armour could clearly be beneficial?

First off, did you watch AOTC? They covered the droid issue on at least some regards. As did the novelization. There's a certain bias against droids (or at least droid-only armies.) This doesn't stop t he Empire from using them, obviously, but there are certian limiting factors. There's also the arguments the novelization puts forth about the tactical value/skill of clones over droids (or at least those kinds of droids.) Moreover, there is always the issue of cost vs necessity. Droids or even powerwank armour exists ni SW and certianly can be used, but does this always assume its neccessary?{/i]. Much in the same way they can make or equip TIEs with hyperdrive and/or shielding, but they don't neccesarily choose to.

Secondly, what the fuck kinds of situations do you envision "power armour" being useful in? Aside from boarding ops (ANH was an exception because Vader demanded it. Even then, the ANH novel gives indication that at least some of the stormies were shielded, so they probably let the best-protected troops go in first. Normally they'd use spacetroopers, since that's part of their bloody purpose.)

[NecronLord]

The Katarn armour could resist light laser cannons (which go up to 5 GJ per shot for antipersonnel weapons.)

Is this gameplay or what? I assume, mind, that it wasn't necesserily AT-TE laser cannons on full power. The AAT ones, maybe?

[Ritterin Sophia]

The Katarn armour could resist light laser cannons (which go up to 5 GJ per shot for antipersonnel weapons.)

Is this gameplay or what? I assume, mind, that it wasn't necesserily AT-TE laser cannons on full power. The AAT ones, maybe?

Actually it was a light anti-personnel artillery weapon, IIRC.

[nightmare]

Source? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just intrigued.

You have for instance the MSD-32 and the MSD-36. The reason disruptors typically have short range is because they are designed to fire in a wider arc.

The JKII disruptor (Tenloss but we're talking Kyle Katarn and not the Empire now) could also fire standard bolts with longer range and was fitted with a scope. As a side note, disruptors also existed in the Old Republic at least as far back as the KOTOR era.

[Lazarus]

In case you have trouble reading, I never said "equivalent". If anything, its better for an infantryman, although nowhere was I assuming something as ludicrouse as "equipping every Infantryman with power armour" even if one assumed that were practical or reasonable.

And why not? Since when does 'powered armour' have to mean some multi-ton warmachine like SM armour? The example I gave of Peter F Hamilton's work describes suits of similar size to stormtrooper armour, and of light weight (users can stand on heavy wooden plank flooring with no problem). Users are massively enhanced in every combat-relevant aspect, and all combat personnel use them. I point again to Starship Troopers, which you claim is 'ludicrous' for equipping all troops with powered armour, despite the fact that this book created the very concept.

And apologies for misinterpreting your AT-PT point. Nevertheless, the case I'm making here is that SW tech should easily allow improvements in combat gear, and saying that these improvements are catered for by mechanised support misses the point. It's akin to saying that the US army didn't need to start wearing body armour, despite it being a practical reality. The technology is available, why is it not used?

Or do you really think Darktrooper armour/Spacetrooper armour would fit through very many "man sized" openings?

As I said above, there is no reason whatsoever to presume that 'powered armour' MUST be some sort of massive construction that can't walk on a second floor for fear of falling through.

They covered the droid issue on at least some regards.

Ok then, so it is necessary for an in-universe reason to deploy troops into situations where droids would be more effective, fair enough. Why, then, do these troops not have the benefit of combat gear that would improve their effectiveness as much as possible in the absence of droids? 'They don't need power armour, they have droids!' clearly falls on it's face. 'It's not practical' is also rubbish, there are dozens of improvements that could be made and used galaxy-wide for entirely justifiable expenditure.

For example, Scenario 1: A stormtrooper sees a grenade hit the ground 2 metres away. He tries to take cover, but is too slow and is killed when it goes off.

Scenario 2: A stormtrooper wearing an enhanced suit of armour sees a grenade hit the ground 2 metres away. Thanks to his speed and strength enhancing armour, he is able to cover 20 metres distance before the grenade goes off. He survives. He then takes a blaster bolt to the hip, but again survives thanks to his personal shield (deployed when entering a dangerous area).

The second trooper is alive, the first is dead. Why? The second's equipment is easily and practically achievable by the SW galaxy, but WHY are these improvements not made?

I do get the feeling I'm just running into an out-of-universe inconsistency here though, so there may well be no real explanation...

Secondly, what the fuck kinds of situations do you envision "power armour" being useful in?

Every single combat scenario. Enhanced armour improves the average stormtroopers survivability and lethality very considerably. Wearing full body armour encumbers Coalition troops in Iraq considerably, and they probably won't need it in most situations, but it is still worn.

Powered armour > non-powered armour. For that reason alone, it should be deployed in all situations where it is deemed necessary to wear armour at all.

You have for instance the MSD-32 and the MSD-36. The reason disruptors typically have short range is because they are designed to fire in a wider arc.

I see nothing that indicates military use of any form (rumoured use by 'Imperial agents' can mean anything), never mind the kind of widespread deployment that is necessary to take the disruptor as a standard example of Imperial military weaponry.

[NecronLord]

The simple reason they don't have powered armour is that 1977 costume technology wouldn't make very convincing Space Marines for a major motion picture. There are powered elements to it, though, and it's safe to assume, given the disposable nature of Stormtroopers that it's a cost thing. It's probably cheaper to grow more clones or draft more men¹ than it is to replace a space trooper suit. We know they have it and use it sometimes, after all.

¹ Especially if you're willing to use fast-learning techniques and brain washing...

[Lazarus]

The simple reason they don't have powered armour is that 1977 costume technology wouldn't make very convincing Space Marines for a major motion picture. There are powered elements to it, though, and it's safe to assume, given the disposable nature of Stormtroopers that it's a cost thing. It's probably cheaper to grow more clones or draft more men¹ than it is to replace a space trooper suit. We know they have it and use it sometimes, after all.

¹ Especially if you're willing to use fast-learning techniques and brain washing...

Yeah that's what I figured the real reason was at the end of the day. Some sort of in-universe explanation would be nice, though maybe slightly strained.

I can't see how it can possibly be cheaper to replace a stormtrooper than a suit of powered armour (doesn't have to be anywhere near as mecha-like as a spacetrooper). The training alone takes years, while surely the Empire could churn out even a suit of spacetrooper armour in a matter of hours, and for far less cost?

Stormtroopers are walking contradictions anyway, they're simultaneously highly trained soldiers AND they're disposable? If you want disposable troops, use droids, and you could get dozens, if not hundreds of droids for the price of one stormtrooper.