Red Guards vs Magnaguards

EnterpriseSovereign · Post by **EnterpriseSovereign** » 2007-11-13 09:36am

When I read "Labyrinth of Evil", I noticed that when Grievous moved to capture Palpatine near the end, he fought the four Jedi assigned to protect the chancellor while the Magnaguards fought against the Red Guards. After Grievous dispatched the Jedi, he himself killed four of the five surviving Red Guards (out of 8 to begin with) who were fighting 3 remaining Magnagaurds.

My question is that, one-on-one, is a Magnaguard with its electrostaff superior to a Red Guard with his force pike, given that both are elite units with special training?

I searched for topics like this, but couldn't find any:

Magnaguard
Red Guard

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-11-14 09:49am

The Red Guard have been wanked out of all proportion down the years, creating various force-sensative Sovreign Protectors and such. The most recent ones out of the creative idiocy department at WotC even have lightsaber staves, and dress in black.

However, their actual preformance in the 'G-canon' isn't much to shout about. In comparison, the Magnaguards are impressive. I seriously doubt a Red Guard can fight on after having his head cut off, or his legs crushed.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2007-11-14 10:02am

NecronLord wrote:The Red Guard have been wanked out of all proportion down the years, creating various force-sensative Sovreign Protectors and such. The most recent ones out of the creative idiocy department at WotC even have lightsaber staves, and dress in black.

What are you talking about? In what? Only thing I know of is Infinities where they brandish lightsabers.

Anywho, we don't know much about the make-up or performance of the Red Guard of the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic as opposed to the Imperial and Royal Guard of the Galactic Emperor. The similarities could be largely superficial; a look he decided to keep. He certainly couldn't have been having trained a weakly-Force-sensitive elite guard, especially endowed with the dark side of the Force as the late Sovereign Protectors were, while maintaining his cover and hiding from the Jedi.

NecronLord wrote:However, their actual preformance in the 'G-canon' isn't much to shout about. In comparison, the Magnaguards are impressive. I seriously doubt a Red Guard can fight on after having his head cut off, or his legs crushed.

The Red Guard doesn't perform in the G-canon.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-11-14 10:08am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:What are you talking about? In what? Only thing I know of is Infinities where they brandish lightsabers.

Brace yourself for the lastest abomination, the Emperor's Shadow Guard.

The Red Guard doesn't perform in the G-canon.

They get knocked on their ass by Yoda. I wasn't entirely serious.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2007-11-14 12:16pm

NecronLord wrote:Brace yourself for the lastest abomination, the Emperor's Shadow Guard.

Wow, there's a stormtrooper for everything.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2007-11-14 12:24pm

If they are elite personal agents directed at Palpatine's personal behest (I thought he had his Hands for this?) and presumably a secret or covert tool, why would they have readily apparent unique ceremonial armor?

I hate the idea that the Guard in general dresses in ceremonial BRIGHT RED armor all the time; I'm sure a general attack on Palpatine's person would be responded by mostly urban/indoor camo-armor-clad Guardsmen, nominally looking more or less like normal Stormtroopers, perhaps with the best, prohibitively expensive for general infantry-use equipment and armor, but not in ceremonial robes. The CEREMONIALLY ARMORED Guardsmen at his side are just there as props and for show - y'know, CEREMONY - largely, with the fighting force held in reserve for response.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2007-11-14 12:27pm

Eleas wrote:Wow, there's a stormtrooper for everything.

I await the day of the Royal Guard Cook for the Emperor. Literally take the armor and add a toque.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2007-11-14 01:08pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
Eleas wrote:Wow, there's a stormtrooper for everything.
I await the day of the Royal Guard Cook for the Emperor. Literally take the armor and add a toque.

That's awesome. We can build an entire miniseries on this! What to call it... ah, I have it! Say hello to the Star Wars - Foodstar trilogy*!

*Possibly for extreme values of "tri"

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2007-11-14 02:20pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote: I hate the idea that the Guard in general dresses in ceremonial BRIGHT RED armor all the time; I'm sure a general attack on Palpatine's person would be responded by mostly urban/indoor camo-armor-clad Guardsmen, nominally looking more or less like normal Stormtroopers, perhaps with the best, prohibitively expensive for general infantry-use equipment and armor, but not in ceremonial robes. The CEREMONIALLY ARMORED Guardsmen at his side are just there as props and for show - y'know, CEREMONY - largely, with the fighting force held in reserve for response.

The troopers you describe kind of sound like the Coruscant Shock Troopers to me. Although I liked their red marked stormtrooper armor better than the brand new armor they got for Shadows of the Empire.

The Red Guards don't look like much but I thought they had better armor and such underneath their cloaks, with the cloaks themselves made out of Armorweave like the capes favored by Dooku and Vader.

Addendum:

That all being said I always thought the Royal Guard's helmets looked ridiculous. You'd get better peripheral vision looking down a cardboard tube it would seem.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-11-14 03:01pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:If they are elite personal agents directed at Palpatine's personal behest (I thought he had his Hands for this?) and presumably a secret or covert tool, why would they have readily apparent unique ceremonial armor?

<Sarli> It's stealth armour, see, it's painted black, like a stealth bomber, huyck huyck!

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2007-11-14 03:13pm

NecronLord wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:If they are elite personal agents directed at Palpatine's personal behest (I thought he had his Hands for this?) and presumably a secret or covert tool, why would they have readily apparent unique ceremonial armor?
<Sarli> It's stealth armour, see, it's painted black, like a stealth bomber, huyck huyck!

It's times like these where I wonder why they even have a cape which is a hinderence to covert ops.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2007-11-14 03:15pm

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
NecronLord wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:If they are elite personal agents directed at Palpatine's personal behest (I thought he had his Hands for this?) and presumably a secret or covert tool, why would they have readily apparent unique ceremonial armor?
<Sarli> It's stealth armour, see, it's painted black, like a stealth bomber, huyck huyck!
It's times like these where I wonder why they even have a cape which is a hinderence to covert ops.

Jedi and Sith seem to do just fine with them.

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2007-11-14 04:07pm

NecronLord wrote:Brace yourself for the lastest abomination, the Emperor's Shadow Guard.

Well at least they're using an actually useful weapon rather than light-chucks.

Besides the Darkside Sourcebook says that all Guardmen have some latent Force Abilities, but only the Sovereign Protectors are adept enough for it to matter.

(name here) · Post by **(name here)** » 2007-11-14 08:58pm

odds may change if the red guard have blasters. The idea that the cerimonial guard are good fighters makes sense when you consister that they WILL be the first responders to any attack on important military or other executive branch leaders. and it's not like there are alot, so you can cherry pick the best stormtroopers for them, but the idea that they are covert operations guys is stupid... for very large values of stupid.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2007-11-14 09:03pm

I don't deny that they ceremonially-armored Guardsmen are effective combatants and would respond effective in spite of their armor; however, why would reserve elements or responding troops or troops defending a residence where the Emperor was use that armor? In some cases they'd be able to respond having prepared for combat, and they doubtlessly would change into something more practical. Moreover, the comics show Guardsmen in field combat wearing full ceremonial armor. That's retarded. If they're disposed to enter field combat, they'll surely clad themselves in effective equipment.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2007-11-14 09:06pm

Aside from the cape, which can be thrown back over the shoulders, what about the rest of the ceremonial armor isn't effective?

(name here) · Post by **(name here)** » 2007-11-14 09:09pm

No, they wouldn't. them being deployed in that armor, with those weapons, any way other than they are in the movies (as direct body guards of VIPs) is just stupid.

Ryan Thunder · Post by **Ryan Thunder** » 2007-11-14 11:22pm

NecronLord wrote:Brace yourself for the lastest abomination, the Emperor's Shadow Guard.

Am I the only one who thinks wielding the lightsabre backwards is stupid? It just seems like yet another "ZOMG NINJA COOL!" bit of bullshit...

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2007-11-15 12:33am

Aren't Palpatine's red guard just an extension of the blue guard (aka the senate guard), without having anything but the uniform and primary function in common with the later imperial guard

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2007-11-15 01:07am

Ryan Thunder wrote:
NecronLord wrote:Brace yourself for the lastest abomination, the Emperor's Shadow Guard.
Am I the only one who thinks wielding the lightsabre backwards is stupid? It just seems like yet another "ZOMG NINJA COOL!" bit of bullshit...

Of all the things to complain about on those mini's and it's not how shitty they look compared to... oh say, the very first mini range?

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2007-11-15 01:20am

Wait a minute.... First, how did Vader train his secret apprentice from an early age? He was like 22 when he became Vader and was only Vader for 20 years? WTF?

Second, how did he teach his secret apprentice how to use Force lightning if he can't even use it himself... and HELLO... "Hey I'm going to teach you the one attack that is SURE to kill me but you know, I trust you, so don't fry my life support systems with it ok?" WTF!!!!

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2007-11-15 12:17pm

havokeff wrote:Wait a minute.... First, how did Vader train his secret apprentice from an early age? He was like 22 when he became Vader and was only Vader for 20 years? WTF?

Second, how did he teach his secret apprentice how to use Force lightning if he can't even use it himself... and HELLO... "Hey I'm going to teach you the one attack that is SURE to kill me but you know, I trust you, so don't fry my life support systems with it ok?" WTF!!!!

The only rationalization I can find is that somewhere between Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader and Episode IV: A New Hope, Vader learns a way to defend himself from lightning, either with his lightsaber or with his gauntlet or.. something.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2007-11-15 12:23pm

havokeff wrote: Second, how did he teach his secret apprentice how to use Force lightning if he can't even use it himself... and HELLO... "Hey I'm going to teach you the one attack that is SURE to kill me but you know, I trust you, so don't fry my life support systems with it ok?" WTF!!!!

Please everyone and their aunt can use force lightening. In the EU is practically short hand for "OMG! He's using TEH DARKSIDE!!!11one." One of the Solo kids is feeling all angsty? Zap!

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-11-15 01:02pm

Vader can't use it because he has bionic arms. That doesn't mean he can't have learnt the Sith Lore to use it over the twenty years he's been a sith lord. He can't do, but he can teach.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2007-11-15 01:22pm

NecronLord wrote:Vader can't use it because he has bionic arms. That doesn't mean he can't have learnt the Sith Lore to use it over the twenty years he's been a sith lord. He can't do, but he can teach.

Have you ever tried teaching something you don't know how to do?