Federation in the SW Galaxy

[Alyeska]

Ok, this is not a “real” vs, as in the stats are not those that canon dictate.

There are several points to this vs.

The total firepower of a Galaxy Class Starship (War Version) is equal to the total firepower of an Imperial Star Destroyer (MK-2). Shuttles and fighters are excluded from this.

If a War GCS and ISD-MK2 were to fight each other, once all factors were considered, it would be a dead even match. One ship would survive with massive damage while the other would be destroyed. This excludes shuttles and fighters.

The Warp drive on a Galaxy class is equal to the speed of the Hyper drive on an Imperial class.

The Venture class scouts are roughly equal to Tie-Defenders while Tac-Fighters are roughly equal to Tie-Avengers. ST shuttles are comparable to lower level Tie-Craft. Runabouts are comparable to Lambda Shuttles.

Both Star Wars and Federation captains are of equal skill and competence, none of the “they are so stupid they kill themselves”. All other comparable forces are relatively equal in skill and competence (IE, Imperial Army-Redshirts)

The Federation also has a limited supply of Advanced Genesis type “weapons” (the device used to turn a dead star, ball of rock, into a new star). These weapons are basically planet killers. However they do not have star killing devices.

The E-11 blaster carbine is roughly equal to the Type-3 (TNG and DS9 rifle) phaser rifle.

As I stated before, this is not a “real” vs, it obviously sets up unrealistic pre-conditions. However this is not a direct vs, it is seeing how the sides would interact.

The Federation through an act of Q is teleported in its entirety to the Star Wars Galaxy, into the outer rim. This is all of the Federation, all their planets, ships, and assets. That is 12,000 Starfleet ships. This is just prior to the Dominion war with roughly 3,000 of the ships being re-commissioned Miranda, Excelsior, or other Frankenstein ships. The other 9,000 are of newer ship classes or the “new” Miranda and Excelsior class ships that were on the end of their original life span.

This all takes place just 1 month prior to the events of the start of the Thrawn Trilogy.

How does the Federation interact with the rest of the SW Galaxy? Do they side with the New Republic? Do they side with the Empire? Do they stay neutral? Try and conquer them on their own? What happens in this situation?

[Darksider]

given the federation's "prime directive" is not to interfere with indigenous(sp?) cultures they would probably stay neutral unless either side attacked them first and even then they would attempt all kinds of negotiations first

[Alyeska]

given the federation's "prime directive" is not to interfere with indigenous(sp?) cultures they would probably stay neutral unless either side attacked them first and even then they would attempt all kinds of negotiations first

IIRC the Prime Directive only applies to cultures and governments that do not have FTL capability or have not yet been contacted by other FTL capable groups. The SW Galaxy obviously has FTL capabilities. The Federation is thrust into a new galaxy and must find a way to survive, which means they must interact.

[Darth Wong]

A GCS is equivalent in all respects to an Imperial ship which is 15 times larger by volume? Even if we throw canon to the winds and assume technological parity, that's still pretty damned unfair.

The effect is to exaggerate Federation fleet sizes by more than order of magnitude. 12,000 ships, even if we assumed technological parity for some unknown reason, would be equivalent to perhaps 500 Imperial ships at most, and probably less when you consider that GCS's are near the upper end of the Federation size range.

I know it's admitted up-front as an unrealistic scenario, but even your assumed technological parity should not give the Federation a 15:1 size/firepower ratio advantage.

Anyway, if you gave the Federation this huge power boost and plunked them into the SW galaxy, they would probably end up allying with the NR. Unless you dropped them in the middle of the Civil War timeline, in which case they could have been used as a threat by the Emperor to justify his deprivations, thus weakening the Rebellion's power base and helping the Emperor (nothing silences critics faster than an external threat).

[Alyeska]

A GCS is equivalent in all respects to an Imperial ship which is 15 times larger by volume? Even if we throw canon to the winds and assume technological parity, that's still pretty damned unfair.

The effect is to exaggerate Federation fleet sizes by more than order of magnitude. 12,000 ships, even if we assumed technological parity for some unknown reason, would be equivalent to perhaps 500 Imperial ships at most, and probably less when you consider that GCS's are near the upper end of the Federation size range.

I know it's admitted up-front as an unrealistic scenario, but even your assumed technological parity should not give the Federation a 15:1 size/firepower ratio advantage.

Anyway, if you gave the Federation this huge power boost and plunked them into the SW galaxy, they would probably end up allying with the NR. Unless you dropped them in the middle of the Civil War timeline, in which case they could have been used as a threat by the Emperor to justify his deprivations, thus weakening the Rebellion's power base and helping the Emperor (nothing silences critics faster than an external threat).

Yeah, I know its unrealistic, hence admiting that. However your answer is what I am looking for, just how they interact.

Though we should take Thrawn into account. Would it not be possible for him to conduct negotiations with the Federation for possible support or at least neutrality? What about when the YV come along in the future, might this alter some of those future events?

[Warspite]

They would initally stay neutral, since they don't know the stance of the other powers, they would open up diplomatic talks with all the factions, and establish a territory, from where they would build the powerbase. Later, it would be by the actions of the NR or the Empire that the Federation would take up sides, if it would... Could they stay neutral, and mediate between the NR and the Empire?
If they have half a brain, possibly, it would be a faster way to gain power, than comiting resources to battle.
If the Federation acts as an agressor, it would present a threat to the NR and the Empire, possibly causing a temporary alliance between them. (Interesting ideia...)

My answer: The Federation would stay neutral, until diplomatic contact is established in all factions, and a clearer picture of the galaxy is made. Then, two courses can be made, one, in which the Federation chooses to ally with the NR, or the Empire, and the second, in which it continues to stay neutral, mediating a peace between the NR and the Empire.

[Slartibartfast]

Ok, this is not a “real” vs, as in the stats are not those that canon dictate.

There are several points to this vs.

<snip>

How does the Federation interact with the rest of the SW Galaxy? Do they side with the New Republic? Do they side with the Empire? Do they stay neutral? Try and conquer them on their own? What happens in this situation?

Too many details for a situation that basically means "assuming the Federation is the equivalent to any other power in the Star Wars galaxy", you didn't have to make a ship-by-ship comparison to see "how they interact"

[Alyeska]

Ok, this is not a “real” vs, as in the stats are not those that canon dictate.

There are several points to this vs.

<snip>

How does the Federation interact with the rest of the SW Galaxy? Do they side with the New Republic? Do they side with the Empire? Do they stay neutral? Try and conquer them on their own? What happens in this situation?

Too many details for a situation that basically means "assuming the Federation is the equivalent to any other power in the Star Wars galaxy", you didn't have to make a ship-by-ship comparison to see "how they interact"

I wanted to make it impossible for people to say things like "The Empire laughs at the Feddie ships" or "The New Republic snickers at their slow FTL drives". I am interested to see what other people think the Federation government would do in such a situation.

[Lord Pounder]

Given that the feddies have fucked up every 1st contact situation they have been involved in they somehow manage to insult both parties. Say at the meeting with the NR they serve fish to a Mon Cal and with the Empire they send an alien diplomat that looks as un-human as possible. This would cause a 3-way war which would be interesting.

[SirNitram]

Thrawn's reaction is probably to ensnare some key Captain's in a trick that has their uber-Galaxies heading to cause havoc in the NR, under some lie. These ships have one huge advantage over the ISD's, and that's they are not obvious warships(Indeed, many races would dismiss them as some sort of scout vessel). If Thrawn can trick the Federation into allying with him, he has an immense upper hand on the NR(You thought 200 Dreads were bad? Try whatever he can convince the Feddies to 'lend' from their uberfleet..)

[Master of Ossus]

The UFP's forces in this are actually pretty substantial. They would certainly be able to defend themselves from anything but a concerted attack by any of the major governments. I would assume that they would begin by exploring everything, and that they would side with the NR during the Thrawn campaign. They would be enough to tip the balance in favor of one side or the other easily (remember that in this campaign, a few hundred ships represent a substantial gain or loss for either side). While they would be unable to conquer more than another sector or two of space due to their limited ground forces, they would become (after Thrawn's death) the third or fourth most powerful organization in the SW Galaxy (after the Chiss and NR, and possibly after the Hapans). That would represent a substantial shift in the Galactic affairs of the day.

[Frank Hipper]

Given that the feddies have fucked up every 1st contact situation they have been involved in they somehow manage to insult both parties. Say at the meeting with the NR they serve fish to a Mon Cal and with the Empire they send an alien diplomat that looks as un-human as possible. This would cause a 3-way war which would be interesting.

You gotta admit, Alyeska, that is damned funny. And having just recently read the Thrawn triology, I would think the Federation would opt for the NR.

[Ghost Rider]

Depending on the time...they would either be

Old Republic: Probably side with the OR...and summarily reorgainzed by Palp.

Civil War: Either courted by either side...and trying their damndest to stay neutral, because the Republic would love to have some extra ships...the Empire would either say surrender or die.

NR: more than likely just simply side with the NR.

[Master of Ossus]

Depending on the time...they would either be

Old Republic: Probably side with the OR...and summarily reorgainzed by Palp.

Civil War: Either courted by either side...and trying their damndest to stay neutral, because the Republic would love to have some extra ships...the Empire would either say surrender or die.

NR: more than likely just simply side with the NR.

You would assume that they would be assimilated by the OR. I don't think they would be, due to their large fleet sizes for this particular scenario.

[Mr Bean]

Simple, SW Technology still outdistances them and the Empire as you've often noted, Technology Aside still can outproduce the Federation in thier sleep

Even during Thrawn a ISD being complety destroyed would have only set back construction about a month....

Kuat is still running at full during Thrawn Trilogy as I remeber along with the other associate Yards(Except Correllia which I belive went under around this time)

[Ghost Rider]

True...I wonder how that would react to the whole seperatist movement.

Given the power levels given to them, they'd remain similar as the Hapans...and pretty much keep to themselves, possibly into the NR era.

[Admiral Johnason]

okay, I am a new person here, but while tha Federation has higher quality ships, the Empire does have better commanders (due to experience and better training for combat). There is only one real possibility for a Federation victory in any verus story. They would be forced to send their physics into the Great Barrier and come back with a group of people with egos the size of Death Stars. However, the Empire would have figured out the secret of the Great Barrier and sent Sith in and come back with super sith. However, this becomes mute when we use this course of events, so (since the NR has FTL) the feds would join the Rebels.

[Alyeska]

Simple, SW Technology still outdistances them and the Empire as you've often noted, Technology Aside still can outproduce the Federation in thier sleep

Even during Thrawn a ISD being complety destroyed would have only set back construction about a month....

Kuat is still running at full during Thrawn Trilogy as I remeber along with the other associate Yards(Except Correllia which I belive went under around this time)

Only a month on an ISD? The one in the Thrawn Trilogy was attacked because it was almost done, and just a month till being finished. Then we have the likes of the Defiant being built in the mirror universe using the same technology, but with NO resources.

You say their Industry is dwarfed, yet by the Thrawn Trilogy the NR has a fleet of a few thousand ships along with the Empire. Either side would most certainly want an ally with 12,000 ships. The Federation wouldn't have the forced to take territory, but if they allied with either side, then victory could be assured.

[Ghost Rider]

The Federation would in Thrawn's time be considered similar to either Hapes Consortium or the Katana Fleet.

Their stance though I see leaning towards the NR given the two stories.

[Crown]

Actually is it too hard to see that they (Federation) would be more powerfull than all? Maybe, just maybe the NR and Empire would be 1st, but after that it will be the Federation all the way. Think about it this way, their space:ship ratio is absurdly high! They would be a significant power, and thanks to the stipulation that stupidity cannot apply, I forsee the Fed's allying with the one that promises them the best returns for their assets.

Think about it, they are a completely new power! They have no complex treatise, or cease-fires that date back 25,000 years! For the first time the Federation gets to act un-constrained by any diplomatic chain.

My scenario; Fed's ally with who ever promises them the best reward for their troubles. Also as stipulated in this scenario, the Fed's have the only planet killers at this time. However they lack the manpower, to take too much by force and then hold it.

[Colonel Olrik]

I may add that their hyperdrived fleet size, in their small territory, gives them a formidable defense force, since they don't have to spread their forces through huge sections of the galaxy, like the NR or the Empire, to ensure protection. They're first in the ships/systems rate.

[Ender]

I forsee thrawn delaying his campaign, and working to expand the influence and power of groups like the Marquis to occupy the federation. This will keep them out of the war and weaken them until he is ready to deal with them.

[Alyeska]

I forsee thrawn delaying his campaign, and working to expand the influence and power of groups like the Marquis to occupy the federation. This will keep them out of the war and weaken them until he is ready to deal with them.

But what are the Maquis fighting against with the Cardassians out of the picture?

[Ender]

I forsee thrawn delaying his campaign, and working to expand the influence and power of groups like the Marquis to occupy the federation. This will keep them out of the war and weaken them until he is ready to deal with them.

But what are the Maquis fighting against with the Cardassians out of the picture?

The Federation selling them out? The Feddies are after them because officers keep leaving? I dunno, I just think he would look to cause them to turn on each other to weaken themselves. That's his style.

[Admiral Johnason]

I see the Federation Coming out of the unknown regions, as Q is a total asshole. They first thing they would do is attempt to make contact. They would first meet the Imperials, who have procuered the area because of Thrawn. After several engagments, the Empire would be forced to make peace so that they could put more of their forces into the fight against the New Republic. The Federation would start to put their fleet through a ton of major upgrades, probably removing the diplomatic and science capibilities on most of their starships to increase proformance and firepower. They would make contact with the NR a year or two later and might atteempt a diplomatic solution. Trade would then start two years later. By this time, the Feds have procuered enough tech to become a power. The Republic will offer them membership or vise versa five years after the Feds were ripped from thier galaxy. Wewill hen see the Federation fight with the Republic againdt misc. threats and the whole Vong thing will not be as bad.

We might then come into some of the funnier aspects of science fiction. The Orions would mate with the Hutts, Vulcans and Wookies would hold hands, and Riker and Solo would start to play cards together. Or maybe not.