What is wrong with the Tau?

Cycloneman · Post by **Cycloneman** » 2007-11-14 04:20pm

I've read quite a bit about the races of 40k around, but I have apparently missed the flaws of one particular faction: the Tau. So, what's wrong with the Tau? Are they really just pure goody-goodies?

I mean, huge assholes seems to describe every other successful race in the galaxy of 40k, so it seems likely that I've just overlooked the notable flaws of the Tau, rather than them actually having none.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2007-11-14 04:25pm

The Tau aren't as nice as it first appears. Their going to annex you regardless but they offer you a choice first: join them and be a lesser partner in the Empire or get steamrolled.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-11-14 04:47pm

The Tau are basically as moral niche as the Dominion from Star Trek. It's just they look good by being around so many really evil people. Rather like I try to make myself look thin by hanging around fat people.

It's worth noting, for example, that when/if the Fire Warriors are destroyed by the Eldar in Dawn of War: Dark Crusade, the human civillians massacre all the Tau civillians. Willing partners my ass - once the guns are removed from their heads by the superior technology of the Eldar, the 'human helpers' are quite happy to reassess the situation.

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2007-11-14 04:48pm

The Tau do have their assholish aspects, but they're just not readily apparent. For example, if they have you in their sights to be added to the Empire, you will join, whether you like it or not. They view the Greater Good dogma with religious zeal, and will make everyone join; if they don't or refuse to join, they usually get blasted outright or get shipped off to reeducation camps.

There's also the issue with the Ethereals and how they control other Tau, and how Commander Farsight broke away after all his Ethereals were killed in battle.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2007-11-14 05:32pm

It helps that since the Tau are not very Warpy, they don't have to resort to the brutal methods the have been forced on the Imperials.

A lot of the bad shit the Imperium does is out of necessity, they really don't have much choice in the matter. If they don't drain psykers to run the Astronomicon, the Imperium collapses and humanity is fucked. If they don't feed psykers to the Emperor, Chaos eats everything and humanity is fucked. If they don't treat psykers like dirt, they are possessed by nasty, nasty shit from the Warp and kill thousands, or even hundreds of thousands. If they don't enforce the worship of the Emperor, his power weakens and Chaos gains leverage. If they don't run things with an iron fists, Chaos cults spring everywhere and millions die. And so on, and so forth.

Granted, a lot of the things they do are not necessary. For example the Adeptus Mechanicus, I really, really hate their guts, they've got no justification except institutionalized paranoia. Another example, the Imperium's xenophobia is, while a bit understandable, nothing more than pure assholery.

Sephirius · Post by **Sephirius** » 2007-11-14 08:17pm

Adrian Laguna wrote:It helps that since the Tau are not very Warpy, they don't have to resort to the brutal methods the have been forced on the Imperials.

A lot of the bad shit the Imperium does is out of necessity, they really don't have much choice in the matter. If they don't drain psykers to run the Astronomicon, the Imperium collapses and humanity is fucked. If they don't feed psykers to the Emperor, Chaos eats everything and humanity is fucked. If they don't treat psykers like dirt, they are possessed by nasty, nasty shit from the Warp and kill thousands, or even hundreds of thousands. If they don't enforce the worship of the Emperor, his power weakens and Chaos gains leverage. If they don't run things with an iron fists, Chaos cults spring everywhere and millions die. And so on, and so forth.

Granted, a lot of the things they do are not necessary. For example the Adeptus Mechanicus, I really, really hate their guts, they've got no justification except institutionalized paranoia. Another example, the Imperium's xenophobia is, while a bit understandable, nothing more than pure assholery.

Well, considering the other races in the 40k universe, yeah, I'd hate the xenos too.

i.e. The Imperial Citizen's guide to Xenos:

Eldar= Creepy, Mysterious space elves who hate you. Secretly emo about the loss of their empire and envious of humanity. Will screw you over in any alliance ASAP.

Dark Eldar= Like Robin Hood in bondage gear. With Pain sticks. Also hate you for not giving them money.

Ork= They hate you. Also, WAAAAAAAAAAAGH

Tau= They don't hate you per se; but if you don't join them, you die. Enjoy being cannon fodder and infertile if you do join them.

Chaos= Unpredictable force that hates you.

Necrons= Hate you for waking them up.

Tyranid= Hate you.

need I go on?

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2007-11-14 08:19pm

I think it would be safe to say that they are much like that of the Imperium before the Horus Heresy. Any world that interests them *must* join them just like any lost human or alien populated but habitable world *must* join the Imperium and submit to the Imperial Truth.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2007-11-14 08:41pm

Well, Adrian Laguna sums it up nicely.

Btw, what are the current theories on the truth about the Ethereals? They're creepy all right, and the fact that they aren't psykers only makes it creepier.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2007-11-14 08:48pm

Cykeisme wrote:Well, Adrian Laguna sums it up nicely.

Btw, what are the current theories on the truth about the Ethereals? They're creepy all right, and the fact that they aren't psykers only makes it creepier.

1. C'Tan did it (But then again, what didn't they do?)

2. Eldar did it (implied in Xenology, but contradicted by recent actions by the Tau Empire which pretty much prove that they aren't controlled by the Eldar).

3. Chaos did it (extreme batshit-insane lunatic fringe group of 40k'ers who also happen to believe that Abbadon the Despoiler isn't a colossal failure)

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2007-11-14 08:56pm

Sephirius wrote:Another example, the Imperium's xenophobia is, while a bit understandable, nothing more than pure assholery.

Well, considering the other races in the 40k universe, yeah, I'd hate the xenos too.[/quote]

I said it was understandable. Particularly because large sections, if not the majority, of humanity was subjugated by aliens prior to the Great Crusade. However the examples you list are all the big players. The problem with the Imperium's xenophobia is how they'll casually exterminate even aliens who aren't a threat, or pose a minimal threat. In fact, pretty much the only reason they don't slaughter all non-humans is that they can't spare the resources to do so. They also keep around a few alien species which are useful to them, such as the Jokaero.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2007-11-14 10:35pm

Are there any more details on the state of humanity prior to the Great Crusade?

I understand that humanity was in a sorry state before the warp storms around Terra abated and the Emperor went a-crusadin', but there don't seem to be much details out there.

I don't know much about other worlds, most of the people living on those hellholes that the Primarchs landed on, were being preyed on by other people (rather than foul xenos).

Lone_Prodigy · Post by **Lone_Prodigy** » 2007-11-14 10:55pm

Adrian Laguna wrote:It helps that since the Tau are not very Warpy, they don't have to resort to the brutal methods the have been forced on the Imperials.

The thought of the Tau slowly developing a psychic presence as humanity once did warms the cockles of my heart. They lack the faith, the ruthlessness, and the sheer paranoia to survive Chaos's ravages. They have no fucking idea what's waiting for them in the Warp. Their research and development rate alone will give Tzeentch a field day, and without blessings and holy inscriptions their very vehicles are going to go apeshit on them. They wouldn't know the first thing about isolating and detaining psykers, and how utterly fucked they would be is simply hilarious.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2007-11-14 11:24pm

Well, considering you'd ultimately end up with a new clutch of demonworlds and possibly even a little warp-realspace overlay over in that corner of the galaxy, it's probably not going to induce too many smiles in the Imperium.
They're going to wished they sent a proper crusade to erase those annoying bastards a little earlier.

Unlikely that it'll turn out that way, though. We don't need yet another "dying race" plying the spacelanes in home-ships :p

Ryan Thunder · Post by **Ryan Thunder** » 2007-11-14 11:30pm

Lone_Prodigy wrote:
Adrian Laguna wrote:It helps that since the Tau are not very Warpy, they don't have to resort to the brutal methods the have been forced on the Imperials.
The thought of the Tau slowly developing a psychic presence as humanity once did warms the cockles of my heart. They lack the faith, the ruthlessness, and the sheer paranoia to survive Chaos's ravages. They have no fucking idea what's waiting for them in the Warp. Their research and development rate alone will give Tzeentch a field day, and without blessings and holy inscriptions their very vehicles are going to go apeshit on them. They wouldn't know the first thing about isolating and detaining psykers, and how utterly fucked they would be is simply hilarious.

Well of course you'd like that. Most Imperial players would love that, simply because they can't stand to see a civilization that has hope and survives. They're too used to that sort of thing getting wiped out before the end of the paragraph.

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2007-11-14 11:55pm

Ryan Thunder wrote:Well of course you'd like that. Most Imperial players would love that, simply because they can't stand to see a civilization that has hope and survives. They're too used to that sort of thing getting wiped out before the end of the paragraph.

It's not so much that the Tau are thriving. It's because their victories are played up as being won due to superior technology/philosophy/everything, which is bullshit; the Imperium is currently busy with more serious matters, and the Tau are using that to expand as much as they can.

Personally, I like them. They claim the moral high ground while simultaniously playing off both sides for their own gain like the sneaky shits they are. It's truly beautiful. *sniff*

Lone_Prodigy · Post by **Lone_Prodigy** » 2007-11-15 12:19am

Ryan Thunder wrote:Well of course you'd like that. Most Imperial players would love that, simply because they can't stand to see a civilization that has hope and survives. They're too used to that sort of thing getting wiped out before the end of the paragraph.

Wait, what? The Orks are my favorite race and they're very hopeful; hell, they're essentially green British soccer hooligans in the future. I love the concept of a hopeful race, but I'm enjoying the problems that come with the Tau's arrogance. Orks keep their ranks generally chaos-free thanks to an instinctive need to purge "un-Orkish boyz," but the Tau don't even realize their peril.
I just find it funny how unprepared they are, and I eagerly await the "Oh, shit..." moment when they realize that assimilating humans and other non-Tau races into their Empire will have daemonic consequences. Their current methods are working, but their ambitions are going to bite them in the ass when their Empire takes in too many psychically active beings.

Gullible Jones · Post by **Gullible Jones** » 2007-11-15 12:23am

I don't know, from my limited knowledge of them they don't sound too awful. Roughly similar to the USSR under Kruschev, if a bit nuttier; whereas the Imperium sounds closer to a bastard offspring of the Third Reich ruled by Charles Manson.

(The WH40K universe begs the question of whether species survival is really worth it, if it requires you to descend to the lowest depths of evil. Nietzche's famous warning comes to mind.)

Sephirius · Post by **Sephirius** » 2007-11-15 12:24am

Lone_Prodigy wrote:
Ryan Thunder wrote:Well of course you'd like that. Most Imperial players would love that, simply because they can't stand to see a civilization that has hope and survives. They're too used to that sort of thing getting wiped out before the end of the paragraph.
Wait, what? The Orks are my favorite race and they're very hopeful; hell, they're essentially green British soccer hooligans in the future. I love the concept of a hopeful race, but I'm enjoying the problems that come with the Tau's arrogance. Orks keep their ranks generally chaos-free thanks to an instinctive need to purge "un-Orkish boyz," but the Tau don't even realize their peril.
I just find it funny how unprepared they are, and I eagerly await the "Oh, shit..." moment when they realize that assimilating humans and other non-Tau races into their Empire will have daemonic consequences. Their current methods are working, but their ambitions are going to bite them in the ass when their Empire takes in too many psychically active beings.

All it takes is one or two A-Level unsanctioned psykers fleeing from a death sentence in the imperium...

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2007-11-15 12:36am

Unfortunately, 40k is perpetually stuck in 999 M41, so we'll never see the day the Tau get their faces kicked in by everybody else in the galaxy.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2007-11-15 12:45am

The Tau are good because the rest are bad. The Imperium's badness is justified by it confronting Chaos at least, while the rest of WH40K powers are just plain evil. The Tau use auxillaries as disposable units in battle and brainwash and subdue their opponents, but the fact is most of the other races would have done even worse here - from outright slaughter to chaotic corruption.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2007-11-15 12:59am

Does anyone else agree that the Eldar are generally the goodest?

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » 2007-11-15 01:14am

Not really - they'll gladly sacrifice millions of Imperials aka Mon-Keighs if it means sometime in the future a dozen or so Eldar are saved. Just a bunch of self-serving bastards who only act "good" when it suits their needs.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2007-11-15 01:35am

Balrog wrote:Not really - they'll gladly sacrifice millions of Imperials aka Mon-Keighs if it means sometime in the future a dozen or so Eldar are saved. Just a bunch of self-serving bastards who only act "good" when it suits their needs.

Ah, okay. I guess that the interests of Man just happen to occassionally coincide with those of the Eldar (especially when it comes to staving off Chaos), so they might be useful to have around sometimes.

Consider however that, coversely, the Imperium would willingly sacrifice a dozen humans if it would mean sometime in the future millions of Eldar are killed.
Emperor help me, I love 40k.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2007-11-15 02:12am

Orks are the least evil race in 40K. They follow the golden rule, in that they treat others how they want to be treated. Unfortunately, they lack the intelligence and the nuance to get that others don't possess the same physiology and psychology as them. If the universe was only Orks, the orks would be eternally blissful, living in orkish harmony, kicking the shit outta each other, eating squigs, and being orky.

Alternately, the C'tan are easily the most evil, as they are intelligent enough and powerful enough to easily choose to do good, but they willfully inflict suffering for nothing more than petty amusement.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2007-11-15 03:12am

Why does there need to be an inherently "good" side or "bad" side? I mean even in the literture there have been others who try ot present even Chaos in a fairly positive light. all factions in 40K are "good" or "evil" to varying degrees and in varying ways, there's nothing unusual or unrealistic about that. (The Us is hardly "all good, or all bad, as I am sure there are people who agree.)

As for the Tau, whats wrong more often than not is that they're both technologically and tactically wanked out (usually with other forces deliberately represented as being worse - the Imperium in paticular - to emphasize how good the Tau look.) Anyone who does not believe me should read the current Rogue Trader novels by andy Hoare. Rebel star (whichI am getting set to read) is particularily wanky I hear..