My Faith for the Future of the U.S. is Shattered

[phongn]

Sorry, I should have added "in public school". Every American seems to know all sorts of things about their own Revolutionary War, some stuff about their own Civil War, and as you move toward the present day, less and less. How many Yanks know how Marcos seized power in the Philippines, for example?

Exactly! Every time I took history in high school and middle school it was the same old plan. Most of the class is spent on the first 100 years, with just a small amount of time on the last 100 years.

You would think with so many of the teacher at my time being from the Vietnam War area they would want to talk about it, but evidently not.

Due to time constraints, we didn't go over (in depth) much after WW2. The rest was fairly detailed, though.

[phongn]

Sorry, I should have added "in public school". Every American seems to know all sorts of things about their own Revolutionary War.

Actually, one major battle was banned from their history books.

The battle of Penobscot Bay, in which 43 American ships were burned or captured.

By 6 British ships.

That was in my history book, you must be using the old American history book up there in Canada.

I also like how Ted leaves out convenient details about the battle, like the composition and location of forces or the which ship was destroyed by whom.

His quote is entirely misleading.

Anyways, I give you the Penobscot Expedition:

On 13th August 1779 an RN squadron consisting of a man-of-war, four frigates and (IIRC) a sloop trapped the American fleet inside the Penobscot Bay. As the British forces outranged the American fleet (and had much heavier guns) the American commander more or less ordered his fleet to run aground up north in the bay, which were then burned.

[Balrog]

God that makes me laugh yet be sad at the time....

[Sir Sirius]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/EDUCATION/11/20 ... index.html

Global goofs: U.S. youth can't find Iraq
Friday, November 22, 2002 Posted: 11:13 AM EST (1613 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Young Americans may soon have to fight a war in Iraq, but most of them can't even find that country on a map, the National Geographic Society said Wednesday.

The society survey found that only about one in seven -- 13 percent -- of Americans between the age of 18 and 24, the prime age for military warriors, could find Iraq. The score was the same for Iran, an Iraqi neighbor.

Although the majority, 58 percent, of the young Americans surveyed knew that the Taliban and al Qaeda were based in Afghanistan, only 17 percent could find that country on a world map.

A U.S.-led force attacked the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan in October 2001, and President Bush has said he is prepared to use force to rid Iraq of any chemical, nuclear or biological weapons programs.

The survey asked 56 geographic and current events questions of young people in nine countries and scored the results with traditional grades.

The surveyed Americans got a "D," with an average of 23 correct answers. Mexico ranked last with an average score of 21, just three points from a failing grade.

Topping the scoring was Sweden, with an average of 40, followed by Germany and Italy, each with 38. None of the countries got an "A," which required average scores of 42 correct answers or better on the 56 questions.

"Someone once said that war is God's way of teaching geography, but today, apparently war or even the threat of war cannot adequately teach geography," said John Fahey, president of the National Geographic Society.

"More American young people can tell you where an island that the 'Survivor' TV series came from is located than can identify Afghanistan or Iraq. Ironically a TV show seems more real or at least more meaningful interesting or relevant than reality."

National Geographic is convening an international panel of policy makers and business and media leaders to find ways to improve geographic education and to encourage interest in world affairs, the society said.

Other findings from the survey
• Thirty-four percent of the young Americans knew that the island used on last season's "Survivor" show was located in the South Pacific, but only 30 percent could locate the state of New Jersey on a map. The "Survivor" show's location was the Marquesas Islands in the eastern South Pacific.

• When asked to find 10 specific states on a map of the United States, only California and Texas could be located by a large majority of those surveyed. Both states were correctly located by 89 percent of the participants. Only 51 percent could find New York, the nation's third most populous state.

• On a world map, Americans could find on average only seven of 16 countries in the quiz. Only 89 percent of the Americans surveyed could find their own country on the map.

• In the world map test, Swedes could find an average of 13 of the 16 countries. Germans and Italians were next, with an average of 12 each.

• Only 71 percent of the surveyed Americans could locate on the map the Pacific Ocean, the world's largest body of water. Worldwide, three in 10 of those surveyed could not correctly locate the Pacific Ocean.

• Although 81 percent of the surveyed Americans knew that the Middle East is the Earth's largest oil exporter, only 24 percent could find Saudi Arabia on the map.

The international survey was conducted for the National Geographic by RoperASW. The results were based on face-to-face interviews with at least 300 men and women aged 18 to 24 in Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Sweden, Britain and the United States.

The questionnaires were in the local language, but the content was universally the same.

WHERE IN THE WORLD
Among 18- to 24-year-old Americans given maps:

87 percent cannot find Iraq

83 percent cannot find Afghanistan

76 percent cannot find Saudi Arabia

70 percent cannot find New Jersey

49 percent cannot find New York

11 percent cannot find the United States

Eh, thats pretty bad.

[Crayz9000]

On 13th August 1779 an RN squadron consisting of a man-of-war, four frigates and (IIRC) a sloop trapped the American fleet inside the Penobscot Bay. As the British forces outranged the American fleet (and had much heavier guns) the American commander more or less ordered his fleet to run aground up north in the bay, which were then burned.

The price of not getting captured...

[Knife]

Actually, one major battle was banned from their history books.

The battle of Penobscot Bay, in which 43 American ships were burned or captured.

By 6 British ships.

That was in my history book, you must be using the old American history book up there in Canada.

I also like how Ted leaves out convenient details about the battle, like the composition and location of forces or the which ship was destroyed by whom.

His quote is entirely misleading.

Anyways, I give you the Penobscot Expedition:

On 13th August 1779 an RN squadron consisting of a man-of-war, four frigates and (IIRC) a sloop trapped the American fleet inside the Penobscot Bay. As the British forces outranged the American fleet (and had much heavier guns) the American commander more or less ordered his fleet to run aground up north in the bay, which were then burned.

The way I heard it/read it, is that a small battle did happen and the American commander disengaged. After trying to escape the British fleet and failing, they went into the north part of the bay and scuttled their ships to prevent the British from capturing them. The sailors escaped over land AFAIK.

[phongn]

The way I heard it/read it, is that a small battle did happen and the American commander disengaged. After trying to escape the British fleet and failing, they went into the north part of the bay and scuttled their ships to prevent the British from capturing them. The sailors escaped over land AFAIK.

A small contingent may have attempted to engage the RN squadron, but it seems that the American commander did not think his firepower great enough (while he had over 100 more guns, they weren't very powerful).

Most ships were burned, not scuttled - and most troops and sailors did indeed escape overland. A debacle indeed - had the Americans decided to be more decisive a day earlier the objective would have been their's.

[paladin]

I remember when I was in high school and we had to take a test on geography. The talk at that time was like now, that American students can not pass a basic geography.

The funny thing about the test was everyone in my history class passed it. My class had some of the "burn-outs" in it. Generally, "burn-outs" in my school were considered by teachers to be stupid. They were surprised when results came in.

So, I think that for every stupid kid without a clue there are several that know what's going on.

[Slartibartfast]

Before you get to happy, Oh Glorious Europeans, remember that America, land of stupid people, is despite being said land, still the strongest nation on the planet.....

"So, if you mock us we're going to punch you in da face."

[weemadando]

Sounds a lot like the global conspiracy of Australians Abroad.

If asked a stupid question we will take the piss relentlessly. And any Australian within earshot will also join in.

A great one in a London Pub (how unsurprising) by some people I know:

Stupid Cockney Git: "So, whats Australia like then? Do you have any problems with the wildlife?"

Aussie 1: "No, the wildlife are fine, but... but..." [looks like breaking down]

SCG: "What?"

Aussie 1: "I got a phone-call earlier, some aboriginals raided our house and kidnapped my sister."

SCG: "No..."

Aussie 2 [random Aussie at the bar, hears this and joins in]: "Damnit! I can't believe it. We had to shoot all the ones on our property after they sacrificed the family dog..."

-and so on and so on and so on-

I myself have done it a few times to stupid people asking me dumb questions about Tasmania, and inevitably there is someone else nearby who'll join in.

Ah, what fun it is being a git.

[Ted]

Penobscot Bay:

Americans had 19 warships, and 24 armed transports. 3000 infantry, and Artillery detatchment for dealing with the small fort.

The British had originally 3 sloops, and about 10 transports, and 850 soldiers.

The British had established the fort to get pine trees for masts and spars as there was not the 3 year supply at home, they needed restocking and the Baltic was closed to them.

The fort was not completed when the Americans showed up.

The Americans had small engagements with the RN sloops, with atleast 6 of their own attacking.

The RN sloops then anchored in an inlet next to the fort and landed half of their guns.

The USN commodore and the General bickered over how the attack went, the commodore wanted the fort taken out first, even though he out gunned the RN at that point by about 300 guns, and the General wanted the RN taken out first.

After TWO weeks of doing nothing, 6 British ships arrived from New York, a liner, 3 frigates and 2 sloops, having a total of 100 guns less than the Americans.

The Americans, rather than destroying the anchored sloops then meeting the RN squadron, fled up river. They could have defeated the RN. As they fled up river, they beached themselves, and then burned when they did beach them, only 2 ships were not burned, both were captured by the RN.

Only FOUR RN sailors and 21 Redcoats were casualties.

[Malecoda]

Before you get to happy, Oh Glorious Europeans, remember that America, land of stupid people, is despite being said land, still the strongest nation on the planet.....

.....Can you imagine what we'd have done by now if we were all brilliant?

Ha! If you had been brilliant, you would all be coming to Sweden to learn the secrets of yümmy føød!

Bork bork bork.

I feel so much smarter in my Volvo...

[ArmorPierce]

While that doesn't represent everyone it unfortunately represents most people.

[Enforcer Talen]

I can name every state - my 3rd grade teacher was obsessive bout that.

course, at some museum, the adults were impressed when I showed them so. . .

[Illuminatus Primus]

Americans learn about every conceivable detail of their Revolutionary War history, and ... then they stop.

Now there's the truth. They beat it into us and then they slack off. I only found salvation due to the fact I enrolled in the International Baccalurette program. International, and a saving grace w/ actually decent educators.

[Raptor 597]

Americans learn about every conceivable detail of their Revolutionary War history, and ... then they stop.

Eh, how about slighty. Every significant battle is an well insignifacant sentence. Everything is sd about History/Geography when I outsmart the teacher with ease.. It might also be I made the highest GEE History averages in the school, ever.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Lennox knows what he's talking about. My world history teacher was a moron.

And they never tell us about Washington starving Indians into submission for victory by burning their food.

[Crown]

Seriously though, how much does an Atlas cost in the US any way?

weemadando I assume though that the fact that Tasmanian's have two heads is still being er, authenticatied? hehe

[Falcon]

a large portion of any population is little better than a mob, you're just finding this out now?

[Raptor 597]

Crown, I can get a good 50 State and Province for $15 and a good world one for $20. Illuminatus Primus, indeed. My teacher has a over use of interjections and I told her the 1980s were over. Anything I respond with she says: "Oh, I didn't know that." And due too glorification of Washington is that a fact? Oh, and and smartass, Anti-American, factul remark I make the Class gets in uproar. A few smart Honors students the rest are Jocks and Cheerleaders.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I dated a cheerleader once. Dumbest thing I ever indulged.

Pun intended.

[Uraniun235]

Considering that you'd be hard pressed to find people so stupid in my public high school, I must conclude that this is a problem related to the large cities (i.e. L.A.) and thus recommend a rectification of this problem via nuclear attack.

[Exonerate]

Hehe... I used to live in Hawaii. When I got to California, they asked me where I used to live. When I told them, I got stupid questions like
"Do you guys live in grass huts there?"
"Can you do the hula dance?" (Yes, I know a little... Was forced by the evil Hawaii DoE to learn it)
"Do you guys eat taro for everything?"
"Is it true that the average is like 90 degrees (fahrenheit) there?"
"Is each island their own state?"

[Gil Hamilton]

Now there's the truth. They beat it into us and then they slack off. I only found salvation due to the fact I enrolled in the International Baccalurette program. International, and a saving grace w/ actually decent educators.

That's very similar to what happened at my school Schenely. All the IB kids got the up-to-date text books (you know, the ones that don't talk about the upcoming Viking II mission) and good teachers. Everyone else the school simply didn't bother with.




Anyway, this all reminds me of something that happened to me in 8th grade (in 1995). At the school I went to, they had weekly trivia contests about the world and students would fill out a slip. Then a teacher would draw until they found a correct answer. One week, they asked the question "Which two countries have the 2nd and 3rd greatest population?" At the time, it was India and the United States, so I filled out my form and waited till the 3rd bell where they'd announce the answer and the winner. 3rd bell came and the loudspeaker said "The winner is such and such a person and the answer is India and the Soviet Union". Can anyone find out what's wrong with this picture? I was livid, so I took it up with the teacher in charge and he said that they said the Soviet Union because they figured none of the students knew that the Soviet Union didn't exist any longer, and I got detention when I made the strong suggestion that the teacher in question didn't know it either.

[PeZook]

• Only 71 percent of the surveyed Americans could locate on the map the Pacific Ocean, the world's largest body of water. Worldwide, three in 10 of those surveyed could not correctly locate the Pacific Ocean.

Ugh...holy motherfucking shit...

I've never EVER met anyone who couldn't find the frigging PACIFIC OCEAN!

I'll leave it at that, since I can't find any more curses that can adequately describe my shock


With relation to history classes, at our high school we didn't do much of the XX century, due to time constraints. But surprisingly, we did learn a HUGE amount of details about Polish history, with the cost of skipping over some of the more important events from world history - it was like three classes discussing the economic situation in each of the three parts of XIX century Poland (ok, what WAS poland a few centuries earlier), and one class about the rest of europe.

So I guess this phenomenon is not limited to the US. Fortunately, I took an additional course in world history of the XX century. It concentrated on Poland, too (to my irritation, but it was supposed to get me past University exams, so the curricullum was profiled accordingly), but fortunately we had MUCH more classes about the rest of the world than in high school.

Still, I know of several of my countrymen (actually, she's a girl ) that is almost as ignorant as those teens who thought Germany is a nuclear wasteland.

But she has an explanation, she comes from the countryside, and quite frankly, our education there SUCKS even worse than the American system. And, she is willing to educate herself.