What is wrong with the Tau?

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white_rabbit
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Post by white_rabbit »

Cykeisme wrote:Does anyone else agree that the Eldar are generally the goodest?
Fuck no, the Eldar are just as bad!

they are like an entire race of arseholes.

Its one cuntish trick after another with them, and the "noble" Eldrad is one of, or was one of the trickiest fuckers in 40k.
Anyone who does not believe me should read the current Rogue Trader novels by andy Hoare. Rebel star (whichI am getting set to read) is particularily wanky I hear..
I kept on thinking the next page would have " ITS A GUNDAM!", in some of the space scenes.
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Post by Connor MacLeod »

white_rabbit wrote: I kept on thinking the next page would have " ITS A GUNDAM!", in some of the space scenes.
I came to that conclusion after reading a Tau codex. :P

Anyhone who ever tries using the Tau wank from the Hoare novels needs to be introduced to the Tau in "Kill Team" :P Gav Thorpe nicely balanced the perceptions there, IMHO.
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

Gullible Jones wrote:The WH40K universe begs the question of whether species survival is really worth it, if it requires you to descend to the lowest depths of evil. Nietzche's famous warning comes to mind.
I contend that species survival is the ultimate good. I would not hesitate in personally killing any number of beings for the the sake of mankind's survival. I would do both completely assured of the morality of my actions. Species survival is the ultimate good, it absolutely and automatically overrides all other concerns. It is when you start killing aliens in situations where the survival of humanity is not at stake that you become a degenerate xenophobic asshole. Which is why I contend the Imperium are xenophobic assholes, their whole sale slaughter of aliens just because they're aliens is not justified by species survival. In fact, it's not justified by anything at all, save their own xenophobia.
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Post by Big Orange »

I'd say the Tau Empire so far have proven themselves to be quintessentially a lesser evil to most other WH40K factions out there (although that could also loosely apply to various Ork clans, Eldar craftworlds, and less loony factions in the Imperium of Man). The Tau sterilizing humans or using them as canon fodder could depend on the general circustances surrounding the location of the human world they conquered (ie next to a Ork system) and the temprament of the humans themselves (violent humans get sterilized).
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Post by MJ12 Commando »

The Tau would be horrible evil big bads in most games. Now, see, the issue here is that they're in 40k, which is sweetness and light and puppies insofar as the sweetness is being raped by Slaanesh, the light is what you see when the Exterminatus comes, and the puppies are ten tons of raging bio-engineered muscle, bone, and death.
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Post by Ted C »

Sephirius wrote:i.e. The Imperial Citizen's guide to Xenos:

Eldar= Creepy, Mysterious space elves who hate you. Secretly emo about the loss of their empire and envious of humanity. Will screw you over in any alliance ASAP.
The Eldar don't hate you, but they don't give a rat's ass about you either. They'll cheerfully sacrifice a billion humans to save one Eldar.
Sephirius wrote:Dark Eldar= Like Robin Hood in bondage gear. With Pain sticks. Also hate you for not giving them money.
The Dark Eldar don't hate you, they like you! You make amusing noises when they torture you.
Sephirius wrote:Ork= They hate you. Also, WAAAAAAAAAAAGH
Don't take it personally, though. Orks hate everyone.
Sephirius wrote:Tau= They don't hate you per se; but if you don't join them, you die. Enjoy being cannon fodder and infertile if you do join them.
The Tau don't hate you, they just don't think you understand them. They will MAKE YOU understand them.
Sephirius wrote:Chaos= Unpredictable force that hates you.
Can't really argue with that.
Sephirius wrote:Necrons= Hate you for waking them up.
Again, though, they actually hate anyone with a pulse.
Sephirius wrote:Tyranid= Hate you.
The Tyranids don't hate you. They think you're delicious.
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Post by white_rabbit »

Don't take it personally, though. Orks hate everyone.
Annihilation Squad gives the perspective of a Daemon on Orks, they don't seem to "hate" so much as they exist to break things and beat people up.
I'd say the Tau Empire so far have proven themselves to be quintessentially a lesser evil to most other WH40K factions out there
They haven't exactly been around long enough as a spacefaring race have they ?

As far as races go,

Oldest
C'tan
"Old One" races/Ancient Warp beastie races
Necrons/races lost during big fight/maybe guys like the Fra'al
Eldar
Orks
Hrud?
Humans
way the fuck away from everyone else




Tau.

Hell, the Imperium has tanks older than Tau civilisation that still work.
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Post by Shadowtraveler »

Connor MacLeod wrote:Rebel star (whichI am getting set to read) is particularily wanky I hear..
Not really, aside from "ZOMG ANTI-GRAV WHUT?!" and a short scene with Space Gundams, it's pretty sedate.

Of course, the writing is boring and sub-par, but that's besides the fact.
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Post by Sephirius »

white_rabbit wrote: Hell, the Imperium has PEOPLE older than Tau civilisation that still work.
fixed :lol:
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

Sephirius wrote:
white_rabbit wrote: Hell, the Imperium has PEOPLE older than Tau civilisation that still work.
fixed :lol:
Depends on whether some of the sensei are still around. Else, it's just the ol' Emperor.
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Post by Imperial Overlord »

Adrian Laguna wrote:
Sephirius wrote:
white_rabbit wrote: Hell, the Imperium has PEOPLE older than Tau civilisation that still work.
fixed :lol:
Depends on whether some of the sensei are still around. Else, it's just the ol' Emperor.
Depends on how old Tau civilization is (I don't recall exactly). The Space Wolves have some freaking old venerable Dreadnoughts and I'm sure they aren't the only ones.
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Post by Flameblade »

According to the codex, the Tau weren't sapient 6,000 years ago when an Adeptus Mechanicus scout ship landed there.
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Post by Aaron »

Imperial Overlord wrote:
fixed :lol:
Depends on whether some of the sensei are still around. Else, it's just the ol' Emperor.[/quote]

Depends on how old Tau civilization is (I don't recall exactly). The Space Wolves have some freaking old venerable Dreadnoughts and I'm sure they aren't the only ones.[/quote]

Doesn't Bjorn the Fell-Handed (I think that's his name) actually remember serving alongside the Emperor?
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Post by SAMAS »

Connor MacLeod wrote:Why does there need to be an inherently "good" side or "bad" side? I mean even in the literture there have been others who try ot present even Chaos in a fairly positive light. all factions in 40K are "good" or "evil" to varying degrees and in varying ways, there's nothing unusual or unrealistic about that. (The Us is hardly "all good, or all bad, as I am sure there are people who agree.)

As for the Tau, whats wrong more often than not is that they're both technologically and tactically wanked out (usually with other forces deliberately represented as being worse - the Imperium in paticular - to emphasize how good the Tau look.) Anyone who does not believe me should read the current Rogue Trader novels by andy Hoare. Rebel star (whichI am getting set to read) is particularily wanky I hear..
I think it's a reaction to the fact that whenever a company makes a universe that's not told in Black and White, the only thing that gets removed is the "White". So instead of Good vs. Evil, you get Asshole vs. Evil, rather than true shades of gray.
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Post by SAMAS »

Ghetto Edit: Personally, I's like to see what Chaos' good side is, if for no other reason than to push back against the "Rar, EVIL!" image it's taking on now.
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Post by Rye »

SAMAS wrote:Ghetto Edit: Personally, I's like to see what Chaos' good side is, if for no other reason than to push back against the "Rar, EVIL!" image it's taking on now.
I've been thinking about this one for a while, and what the draw of Chaos would be since it seems so universally bad on first appraisal that only a few obsessives would volunteer for it. Thinking about the subject in an empathetic and seductive manner, I've come to the following good points:

It makes accomplishing your goals in life incredibly easy, with a deal here and there with the Fell Powers you can accomplish just about anything, extremely valuable in the short term, and with an introductory knowledge of warpcraft you probably think you'll be able to screw over the daemons in the long term and get away with it (after all, how many daemons can be controlled with the right words).

Chaos worship likely has drug like properties, if not outright involving drug use, so for thousands of people, getting their fix of choice on condition that they submit to the will of the Chaos cult is probably a good way to get loads of cultists.

Being a warrior for Chaos probably satisfies your life in the way almost nothing else can. Similar to the way islamic extremism produces a sense of righteousness and clarity in the minds of the terrorists, the Chaos religions probably have similar things going on in their cults. Becoming a chosen warrior of Khorne or a plague-bearer or whatever is probably a high you never want to come down from, especially as your mindset is warped, your empathy dulled, etc.

If you play the game right, you have the opportunity for eternal, satisfied life with experiences beyond imagination. Chaos cultists usually speak of knowing the underpinnings of reality, they've seen the cosmos laid bare, maybe they have, maybe they haven't, but the experience is apparently enough to convince them in the truth and value of their cause.
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Post by loomer »

Wouldn't the good side of Chaos be Tzeentch's inspiring of creativity, or Slaanesh's inevitable patronage of fine art?
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Post by darth korte »

loomer wrote:Wouldn't the good side of Chaos be Tzeentch's inspiring of creativity, or Slaanesh's inevitable patronage of fine art?
And Nurgle´s encouragement to love all things, and Khorne encourages his followers to be ultimate examples of chivalry.
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Post by Peptuck »

I think that the good side of Chaos isn't that the Chaos Gods themselves are bad, its that the followers of the Chaos Gods just go too far in extremes. The current edition of the Chaos Codex focuses on the human side of things, and how Marines who fall to Chaos feel liberated and wish to dominate and control.

Really, from what I see, its more of a case that humans simply cannot handle the power and freedom that Chaos would bring them, and the biggest threat regarding this comes from the Traitor Legions, who wage their wars mostly because they're still stuck in the Horus Heresy and too twisted by their Chaos worship to do anything else.
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Post by speaker-to-trolls »

darth korte wrote:
loomer wrote:Wouldn't the good side of Chaos be Tzeentch's inspiring of creativity, or Slaanesh's inevitable patronage of fine art?
And Nurgle´s encouragement to love all things, and Khorne encourages his followers to be ultimate examples of chivalry.
Right except for that last one, I've read some vague references to Khorne representing 'martial honour' as well as sheer bloodlust, but I've yet to see anything to indicate that he actually does.
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

The book Deamonworld, aside from being really fucking awesome, does a good job of explaining the allure of Chaos.
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Post by Ryan Thunder »

Lone_Prodigy wrote:
Ryan Thunder wrote:Well of course you'd like that. Most Imperial players would love that, simply because they can't stand to see a civilization that has hope and survives. They're too used to that sort of thing getting wiped out before the end of the paragraph. :roll:
I just find it funny how unprepared they are, and I eagerly await the "Oh, shit..." moment when they realize that assimilating humans and other non-Tau races into their Empire will have daemonic consequences. Their current methods are working, but their ambitions are going to bite them in the ass when their Empire takes in too many psychically active beings.
Yes. And when that day comes... HOORAY! Another "dark" and "gritty" faction! As if there aren't enough of those already...

Or the Tau just die, and you loose the hopeful folk so we can all just go back to the same old semi-backwards shit. Serves them right, doesn't it? :roll:
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Post by Ryan Thunder »

Shadowtraveler wrote:
Ryan Thunder wrote:Well of course you'd like that. Most Imperial players would love that, simply because they can't stand to see a civilization that has hope and survives. They're too used to that sort of thing getting wiped out before the end of the paragraph. :roll:
It's not so much that the Tau are thriving. It's because their victories are played up as being won due to superior technology/philosophy/everything, which is bullshit; the Imperium is currently busy with more serious matters, and the Tau are using that to expand as much as they can.
Well, on the philosophy angle, I agree. Philosophy doesn't have much to do with winning.

They do have superior technology in some regards. Sure, the Imperium might have instances of technology that is better, but it's rarely common stuff, while the Tau can build their tech as often as they want, with resources being the only limitation. That, and they actually improve on it, which is more than can be said for the other factions.
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Post by Uraniun235 »

Ryan Thunder wrote:Yes. And when that day comes... HOORAY! Another "dark" and "gritty" faction! As if there aren't enough of those already...
I don't think you really "get" 40K.
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Post by Ryan Thunder »

Uraniun235 wrote:
Ryan Thunder wrote:Yes. And when that day comes... HOORAY! Another "dark" and "gritty" faction! As if there aren't enough of those already...
I don't think you really "get" 40K.
Sure I do. It's set in the evil dark and gritty future where everything's, well, "dark" and "gritty". And its gritty, eh?

Then they wrote in something that isn't and people threw a fit. :?
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