Barry Bonds Indicted

[Sea Skimmer]

Being an asshole aside. Why was he even being questioned by CONGRESS. Don't they have better things to worry about than which baseball player is hitting to many homeruns? This just seems like one more distraction from what really matters.

Its one of the jobs of Congress to conduct investigations on behalf of public interest and common welfare. The main motivation in this case was concerns over rampant steroid use in sports of all kinds, including use by kids still in high school. Baseball was singled out because it’s such a high profile with such a blatant problem. This is no bullshit; this is congress actually doing its job for once. Congress usually has multiple investigations into open at any given time, you just don’t hear much about it.

[NeoGoomba]

Did they actually brand the baseball? I voted, but I never heard how it turned out.

I was under the impression that the guy who caught the ball branded an asterick on it, and that there was a big Bonds tirade about how he would refuse to be inducted into the Hall of Fame if that ball was in there with said asterick.

Barry Bonds, MAN OF PRINCIPALS! And they say there are no more heroes.

[Havok]

Being an asshole aside. Why was he even being questioned by CONGRESS. Don't they have better things to worry about than which baseball player is hitting to many homeruns? This just seems like one more distraction from what really matters.

Its one of the jobs of Congress to conduct investigations on behalf of public interest and common welfare. The main motivation in this case was concerns over rampant steroid use in sports of all kinds, including use by kids still in high school. Baseball was singled out because it’s such a high profile with such a blatant problem. This is no bullshit; this is congress actually doing its job for once. Congress usually has multiple investigations into open at any given time, you just don’t hear much about it.

So you are saying that it is Congress's job to parent our children now? If Congress wanted to investigate the rampant use of steroid in pro athletics why are they going after the users and not the suppliers, or how about the manufacturers? Where is the investigation into all the doctors that are writing the prescriptions or the labs that are designing and making the steroids? What vital information did they intend to glean from Barry Bonds about steroids? "Yes I use them. Where are they made? I dunno.How are they made? Man, I'm a pro baseball player. I haven't learned anything since my senior year in high school. Ask the guy who sold them to me. Who you already know."

[Havok]

Did they actually brand the baseball? I voted, but I never heard how it turned out.

I was under the impression that the guy who caught the ball branded an asterick on it, and that there was a big Bonds tirade about how he would refuse to be inducted into the Hall of Fame if that ball was in there with said asterick.

Barry Bonds, MAN OF PRINCIPALS! And they say there are no more heroes.

Marc Echo, the designer, bought the ball from the guy that battled for it and he held the online poll as to whether or not to brand the ball.

[SCRawl]

Being an asshole aside. Why was he even being questioned by CONGRESS. Don't they have better things to worry about than which baseball player is hitting to many homeruns? This just seems like one more distraction from what really matters.

Its one of the jobs of Congress to conduct investigations on behalf of public interest and common welfare. The main motivation in this case was concerns over rampant steroid use in sports of all kinds, including use by kids still in high school. Baseball was singled out because it’s such a high profile with such a blatant problem. This is no bullshit; this is congress actually doing its job for once. Congress usually has multiple investigations into open at any given time, you just don’t hear much about it.

So you are saying that it is Congress's job to parent our children now? If Congress wanted to investigate the rampant use of steroid in pro athletics why are they going after the users and not the suppliers, or how about the manufacturers? Where is the investigation into all the doctors that are writing the prescriptions or the labs that are designing and making the steroids? What vital information did they intend to glean from Barry Bonds about steroids? "Yes I use them. Where are they made? I dunno.How are they made? Man, I'm a pro baseball player. I haven't learned anything since my senior year in high school. Ask the guy who sold them to me. Who you already know."

If it is perceived that steroids are a necessary ingredient in the making of a professional athlete, then thousands of young lives will be forfeit in the attempt to become one. It ends up being that simple.

Why have Bonds testify at all? He can certainly testify to what he knows: had he ever taken steroids? Asking these kinds of questions is part of investigating the problem. I don't really know that it had to be done in the context of a congressional hearing, but I suppose that that gives the process some transparency.

[Havok]

Being an asshole aside. Why was he even being questioned by CONGRESS. Don't they have better things to worry about than which baseball player is hitting to many homeruns? This just seems like one more distraction from what really matters.

(Emphasis mine)

Well, that's an excellent question. I think that it was just a bunch of politicians making hay by taking MLB -- an organization that brings in billions of dollars and enjoyed antitrust protection for decades (and still might, for all I know) -- to task for their nonexistent steroid policy. Few things are as all-American as baseball, and since the everyman can relate to it, votes are there to be had by being the guy (or guys) to "fix" it.

I don't know if the "everyman" can really relate to MLBers anymore, but I agree with what you are saying.

End of the day, though, the reason why he was hauled before Congress is irrelevant: he was there, he was under oath, and he made the decision to lie. If we let perjurers off, then the whole system falls apart.

I also agree with this.

[FSTargetDrone]

For those interested, a PDF of the indictment can be found right here. It's a scan, so no copy/pastey. And the ESPN story from the first page has some new stuff appended to the original story:

Bonds is scheduled to appear in U.S. District Court in San Francisco on Dec. 7.

He has never been identified by Major League Baseball as testing positive for steroids.

The Giants, the players' union and even the White House called it a sad day for baseball.

"This is a very sad day. For many years, Barry Bonds was an important member of our team and is one of the most talented baseball players of his era. These are serious charges. Now that the judicial process has begun, we look forward to this matter being resolved in a court of law," the Giants said.

Union head Donald Fehr said he was "saddened" to learn of the indictment, but cautioned that "every defendant, including Barry Bonds, is entitled to the presumption of innocence unless and until such time as he is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt."

In Washington, White House spokesman Tony Fratto said: "The president is very disappointed to hear this. As this case is now in the criminal justice system, we will refrain from any further specific comments about it. But clearly this is a sad day for baseball."

Commissioner Bud Selig withheld judgment, saying, "I take this indictment very seriously and will follow its progress closely."

Bush, who once owned the Texas Rangers, called Bonds to congratulate him in August when the Giants' outfielder broke the home run mark. "You've always been a great hitter and you broke a great record," Bush said at the time.

Former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell, who is investigating drug use in baseball, declined comment.

The Hall of Fame currently has an exhibit dedicated to Bonds' record-breaking 756th home run.

"As a historic museum, we have no intention of taking the exhibit down," Hall vice president Jeff Idelson said.

Bonds joins a parade of defendants tied to the BALCO investigation, including Anderson, who served three months in prison and three months of home detention after pleading guilty to steroid distribution and money laundering.

BALCO founder Victor Conte also served three months in prison after he pleaded guilty to steroids distribution. But Conte has long insisted that Bonds didn't get steroids from his lab.

Conte, in an interview with ESPN's Steve Levy, said Thursday night he "doesn't expect to testify" on behalf of Barry Bonds. Earlier Thursday, Conte told ESPN the Magazine's Shaun Assael that he "may" testify on Bonds' behalf that the sample the government claims Bonds tested positive for steroids on, is not what it seems.

Bonds was charged in the indictment with lying when he said he didn't knowingly take steroids given to him by Anderson. Bonds is also charged with lying that Anderson never injected him with steroids.

"Greg wouldn't do that," Bonds testified when asked if Anderson ever gave him any drugs that needed to be injected. "He knows I'm against that stuff."

Anderson's attorney, Mark Geragos, said the trainer didn't cooperate with the grand jury that indicted Bonds.

"This indictment came out of left field," Geragos said. "Frankly I'm aghast. It looks like the government misled me and Greg as well, saying this case couldn't go forward without him."

Prosecutors promised Bonds they wouldn't charge him with any drug-related counts if he testified truthfully. But according to the indictment, Bonds repeatedly denied taking any steroids or performance-enhancing drugs despite evidence to the contrary.

According to the indictment, Bonds even denied taking steroids when prosecutors showed him the results of a test from November 2000 that showed a "Barry B" testing positive for two types of steroids.

"I've never seen these documents," Bonds said. "I've never seen these papers."

The indictment does not explain where prosecutors obtained those results, but they likely were conducted at BALCO. Bonds first visited BALCO in November 2000 and submitted to the series of urine and drug tests conducted by BALCO founder Victor Conte on every athlete who went through the lab.

The test results may have been seized when federal agents raided BALCO in September 2003.

Conte said Thursday the tests were administered to protect athletes from taking legal supplements contaminated with illegal steroids. But he said he had no way of knowing Bonds' test results because the samples were assigned numbers rather than names.

"The reason for the testing wasn't to circumvent the system," Conte said. "It was to protect the athletes."

Bonds said that at the end of the 2003 season Anderson rubbed some cream on his arm that the trainer said would help him recover. Anderson also gave him something he called "flax seed oil," Bonds said.

Bonds then testified that prior to the 2003 season, he never took anything supplied by Anderson -- which the indictment alleges was a lie because the doping calendars seized from Anderson's house were dated 2001.

Bonds has long been shadowed by allegations that he used performance-enhancing drugs. The son of former big league star Bobby Bonds, Barry broke into the majors with the Pittsburgh Pirates in 1986 as a lithe, base-stealing outfielder.

By the late 1990s, he had bulked up to more than 240 pounds -- his head, in particular, becoming noticeably bigger. His physical growth was accompanied by a remarkable power surge.

Speculation of his impending indictment had mounted for more than a year, but the specter of steroid allegations have shadowed him for much longer.

[Havok]

Its one of the jobs of Congress to conduct investigations on behalf of public interest and common welfare. The main motivation in this case was concerns over rampant steroid use in sports of all kinds, including use by kids still in high school. Baseball was singled out because it’s such a high profile with such a blatant problem. This is no bullshit; this is congress actually doing its job for once. Congress usually has multiple investigations into open at any given time, you just don’t hear much about it.

So you are saying that it is Congress's job to parent our children now? If Congress wanted to investigate the rampant use of steroid in pro athletics why are they going after the users and not the suppliers, or how about the manufacturers? Where is the investigation into all the doctors that are writing the prescriptions or the labs that are designing and making the steroids? What vital information did they intend to glean from Barry Bonds about steroids? "Yes I use them. Where are they made? I dunno.How are they made? Man, I'm a pro baseball player. I haven't learned anything since my senior year in high school. Ask the guy who sold them to me. Who you already know."

If it is perceived that steroids are a necessary ingredient in the making of a professional athlete, then thousands of young lives will be forfeit in the attempt to become one. It ends up being that simple.

Why have Bonds testify at all? He can certainly testify to what he knows: had he ever taken steroids? Asking these kinds of questions is part of investigating the problem. I don't really know that it had to be done in the context of a congressional hearing, but I suppose that that gives the process some transparency.

There is no problem. A professional athlete, who is paid to ENTERTAIN us is doing just that. He used an illegal substance that may or may not have helped him do that. And if he had just admitted that? Exactly. None of this would be happening. It's not that he TOOK steroids or where he got them from, or who made them or the poor retarded children that can't ever figure out right from wrong. It is that he lied about it. And that is why the whole thing is Bull Shit.

[SCRawl]

If it is perceived that steroids are a necessary ingredient in the making of a professional athlete, then thousands of young lives will be forfeit in the attempt to become one. It ends up being that simple.

Why have Bonds testify at all? He can certainly testify to what he knows: had he ever taken steroids? Asking these kinds of questions is part of investigating the problem. I don't really know that it had to be done in the context of a congressional hearing, but I suppose that that gives the process some transparency.

There is no problem. A professional athlete, who is paid to ENTERTAIN us is doing just that. He used an illegal substance that may or may not have helped him do that. And if he had just admitted that? Exactly. None of this would be happening. It's not that he TOOK steroids or where he got them from, or who made them or the poor retarded children that can't ever figure out right from wrong. It is that he lied about it. And that is why the whole thing is Bull Shit.

It's clear enough that what they're going to get Bonds for is perjury, instead of anything else. Hell, he was granted immunity if he wanted to admit to taking steroids, so that's not an issue. (He would have lost his job if he'd done that, though, and at c. $20M/year that's no small consideration.)

I think the issue we're having is this: you don't see a problem with letting professional athletes take whatever they want in order to entertain us. If I'm wrong about that, I'll withdraw the statement and apologize. If I'm right, though, let's just pursue that line of reasoning.

If professional athletes are all allowed to use steroids to whatever extent they like, then only those who use the stuff will become professional athletes. Some of these steroids (and other substances they use) are quite hazardous to one's medium- and long-term health (see Lyle Alzado). So, you might say, why should we care if a miniscule segment of society wants to poison themselves in order to optimize their earning potential?

Personally, I don't care if a bunch of millionaires want to wreck their health in order to hit a baseball (or tackle a running back, or whatever) just a little harder. Let them have their androstenedione. The problem is that every college athlete will perceive -- and quite correctly -- that his chances of making it to the big leagues are zero without going on steroids. So now, as all but the most marginal college athletes will be taking steroids, every high school athlete who wants to get an athletic scholarship will be taking them. And so on.

Going after the suppliers won't work; some of these substances have legitimate therapeutic purposes, and some of them are meant for use with animals. You can keep going after the guys who distribute the stuff, and you should, but as long as a culture of necessity exists with respect to steroids and success in the professional ranks, too many young people will ruin their health, and have nothing to show for it.

[LMSx]

Bonds obstructed an investigation into an organization that was illegally distributing controlled substances, I don't see any issue with indicting him.

[Flagg]

Did they actually brand the baseball? I voted, but I never heard how it turned out.

They sure as hell did!

[NeoGoomba]

Marc Echo, the designer, bought the ball from the guy that battled for it and he held the online poll as to whether or not to brand the ball.

Well then I stand corrected.

[Havok]

If it is perceived that steroids are a necessary ingredient in the making of a professional athlete, then thousands of young lives will be forfeit in the attempt to become one. It ends up being that simple.

Why have Bonds testify at all? He can certainly testify to what he knows: had he ever taken steroids? Asking these kinds of questions is part of investigating the problem. I don't really know that it had to be done in the context of a congressional hearing, but I suppose that that gives the process some transparency.

There is no problem. A professional athlete, who is paid to ENTERTAIN us is doing just that. He used an illegal substance that may or may not have helped him do that. And if he had just admitted that? Exactly. None of this would be happening. It's not that he TOOK steroids or where he got them from, or who made them or the poor retarded children that can't ever figure out right from wrong. It is that he lied about it. And that is why the whole thing is Bull Shit.

It's clear enough that what they're going to get Bonds for is perjury, instead of anything else. Hell, he was granted immunity if he wanted to admit to taking steroids, so that's not an issue. (He would have lost his job if he'd done that, though, and at c. $20M/year that's no small consideration.)

I think the issue we're having is this: you don't see a problem with letting professional athletes take whatever they want in order to entertain us. If I'm wrong about that, I'll withdraw the statement and apologize. If I'm right, though, let's just pursue that line of reasoning.

If professional athletes are all allowed to use steroids to whatever extent they like, then only those who use the stuff will become professional athletes. Some of these steroids (and other substances they use) are quite hazardous to one's medium- and long-term health (see Lyle Alzado). So, you might say, why should we care if a miniscule segment of society wants to poison themselves in order to optimize their earning potential?

Personally, I don't care if a bunch of millionaires want to wreck their health in order to hit a baseball (or tackle a running back, or whatever) just a little harder. Let them have their androstenedione. The problem is that every college athlete will perceive -- and quite correctly -- that his chances of making it to the big leagues are zero without going on steroids. So now, as all but the most marginal college athletes will be taking steroids, every high school athlete who wants to get an athletic scholarship will be taking them. And so on.

Going after the suppliers won't work; some of these substances have legitimate therapeutic purposes, and some of them are meant for use with animals. You can keep going after the guys who distribute the stuff, and you should, but as long as a culture of necessity exists with respect to steroids and success in the professional ranks, too many young people will ruin their health, and have nothing to show for it.

The issue could be complicated because Bonds did admit to using "The Cream", although he said he thought it was a topical arthritic ointment.

My personal stand on steroids is the same one I take on pot. I think it should be treated like booze. You can use them with mild restrictions, but the second you harm someone else because of them you are up shit fucking creek.

That said, using them in baseball and other sports, I think should NOT be allowed. I want to see the peak of human performance not the cutting edge of chemistry.
THAT said, I am a realist. They are not going anywhere. They make the sports more entertaining, because they do enhance your speed and strength and most importantly they prolong your career and speed injury recovery time. They turn good athletes into great ones and can turn great ones into legends. (I don't consider baseball players athletes ) Juiced up players that perform better bring in more fans which makes more money for the teams and the leagues which usually makes the whole sport better for the fans.

Do I oppose them in high school sports? Absolutely, but like all other drugs, it is the responsibility of the parents and the coaches to keep those kids on the straight and narrow.

Do I oppose them at a collegiate level? Yes I do. However, in this country when you reach the age of 18 you can fight and die for this country and if you make the decision to do so nobody questions you. I think those same 18 year olds can make the decision to take steroids if they think that that is what they want/need/have to do to make it to the next level. They all know the risk/reward factors. It is their choice if they want to do it.

There are plenty of athletes that have never even considered taking steroids and never had to. There will always be those athletes. With the exception of the straight brute strength sports like power lifting, it is ALWAYS going to be a talent, skill and understanding of a sport that makes a good player. So I disagree that only those players that take steroids can be Pros or that we would ever reach that state.

Going after the suppliers absolutely would work. All the steroids that I have ever seen, heard of or taken have come from someone, at some point, that works around them, in some sort of medical facility. If you want to stop people from being able to get them (for the most part, you could never stop it 100%) then you put tighter restrictions on who can access them, or levy heavy fines on whatever or whoever you need to. This isn't Columbian drug lords spending BILLIONS to get their product into our country. This is your high school buddy who is now a doctor writing out prescriptions for you and your friends or the local body building guru taking trips to Tijuana and back.
It's sports medicine companies like BALCO. They are easy to spot and easy to shut down.

[CmdrWilkens]

Couple of thoughts:

For starters Bonds admitting he used the drugs could (not under the deal offered but otherwise) have resulted in charges related to possesion and illegal use of a Controlled Dangerous Substance. Given that he was at the center of a ring it could have even lead to conspircay to distribute or distribution charges so him admitting under oath to using steroids (without the immunity deal he was offered and rejected) would have been legally disastrous.

Second thought Congress reserves the right to enqire into baseball in general mostly because it is one of very few legal monopolies left in the United States and that protected status grows more and more uncertain everytime the sport fails to police its own. All things aside it may be entertainment but it is still an industry employing hundreds of thousands and generating hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue. For Congress to simply leave the industry as an unregulated monopoly would be a gross breach of the public trust. This is without even going into the public health concerns. At the end of the day using steroids for any reason other than a prescribed medical need is dangerous and when it is done by a person with large public standing failing to question that person should be met with outrage.

So why Bonds and not Landis perhaps? Well Bonds has not been punished or in any way reprimanded by the organization whereas the offenders in most other major sport leauges have fines and penalties imposed which, if not comensurate with criminal indictment, certainly serve an equivalent purpose. So long as those who use steroids are punished harshly and publicly (anybody heard any cheers for Rafael Palmerio lately?) then the system is doing its job. Bonds, all commentary aside, still drew his salary and went to work evey day he was placed in the lineup without ever serving a suspension or being subject to any disciplinary action. So again if the organization won't punish him then somebody needs to and the courts are the most logical next step.

[The Yosemite Bear]

good news to warm the sub-cackles of my heart, if I still had one...