Army Desertion rate up 80%

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Army Desertion rate up 80%

Post by FaxModem1 »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071117/ap_ ... _deserters

Article wrote:
Army desertion rate up 80 pct. since '03

By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 9 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Soldiers strained by six years at war are deserting their posts at the highest rate since 1980, with the number of Army deserters this year showing an 80 percent increase since the United States invaded Iraq in 2003.
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While the totals are still far lower than they were during the Vietnam War, when the draft was in effect, they show a steady increase over the past four years and a 42 percent jump since last year.

"We're asking a lot of soldiers these days," said Roy Wallace, director of plans and resources for Army personnel. "They're humans. They have all sorts of issues back home and other places like that. So, I'm sure it has to do with the stress of being a soldier."

The Army defines a deserter as someone who has been absent without leave for longer than 30 days. The soldier is then discharged as a deserter.

According to the Army, about nine in every 1,000 soldiers deserted in fiscal year 2007, which ended Sept. 30, compared to nearly seven per 1,000 a year earlier. Overall, 4,698 soldiers deserted this year, compared to 3,301 last year.

The increase comes as the Army continues to bear the brunt of the war demands with many soldiers serving repeated, lengthy tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. Military leaders — including Army Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey — have acknowledged that the Army has been stretched nearly to the breaking point by the combat. Efforts are under way to increase the size of the Army and Marine Corps to lessen the burden and give troops more time off between deployments.

"We have been concentrating on this," said Wallace. "The Army can't afford to throw away good people. We have got to work with those individuals and try to help them become good soldiers."

Still, he noted that "the military is not for everybody, not everybody can be a soldier." And those who want to leave the service will find a way to do it, he said.

While the Army does not have an up-to-date profile of deserters, more than 75 percent of them are soldiers in their first term of enlistment. And most are male.

Soldiers can sign on initially for two to six years. Wallace said he did not know whether deserters were more likely to be those who enlisted for a short or long tour.

At the same time, he said that even as desertions have increased, the Army has seen some overall success in keeping first-term soldiers in the service.

There are four main ways that soldiers can leave the Army before their first enlistment contract is up:

_They are determined unable to meet physical fitness requirements.

_They are found to be unable to adapt to the military.

_They say they are gay and are required to leave under the so-called "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

_They go AWOL.

According to Wallace, in the summer of 2005, more than 18 percent of the soldiers in their first six months of service left under one of those four provisions. In June 2007, that number had dropped to about 7 percent.

The decline, he said, is largely due to a drop in the number of soldiers who leave due to physical fitness or health reasons.

Army desertion rates have fluctuated since the Vietnam War — when they peaked at 5 percent. In the 1970s they hovered between 1 and 3 percent, which is up to three out of every 100 soldiers. Those rates plunged in the 1980s and early 1990s to between 2 and 3 out of every 1,000 soldiers.

Desertions began to creep up in the late 1990s into the turn of the century, when the U.S. conducted an air war in Kosovo and later sent peacekeeping troops there.

The numbers declined in 2003 and 2004, in the early years of the Iraq war, but then began to increase steadily.

In contrast, the Navy has seen a steady decline in deserters since 2001, going from 3,665 that year to 1,129 in 2007.

The Marine Corps, meanwhile, has seen the number of deserters stay fairly stable over that timeframe — with about 1,000 deserters a year. During 2003 and 2004 — the first two years of the Iraq war — the number of deserters fell to 877 and 744, respectively.

The Air Force can tout the fewest number of deserters — with no more than 56 bolting in each of the past five years. The low was in fiscal 2007, with just 16 deserters.

Despite the continued increase in Army desertions, however, an Associated Press examination of Pentagon figures earlier this year showed that the military does little to find those who bolt, and rarely prosecutes the ones they find. Some are allowed to simply return to their units, while most are given less-than-honorable discharges.

"My personal opinion is the only way to stop desertions is to change the climate ... how they are living and doing what they need to do," said Wallace, adding that good officers and more attention from Army leaders could "go a long way to stemming desertions."

Unlike those in the Vietnam era, deserters from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars may not find Canada a safe haven.

Just this week, the Supreme Court of Canada refused to hear the appeals of two Army deserters who sought refugee status to avoid the war in Iraq. The ruling left them without a legal basis to stay in Canada and dealt a blow to other Americans in similar circumstances.

The court, as is usual, did not provide a reason for the decision.
Huh, this surprises me.
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Post by Knife »

The Marine Corps, meanwhile, has seen the number of deserters stay fairly stable over that timeframe
Go figure, the service that recruited according to 'nationalism' and a sense of duty is fairly stable in it's rates of desertion. We're looking for a few good men. Even fewer decide they can't hang.
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But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Post by Elfdart »

Just following the example set by their commander-in-chief.
:roll:
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

heh, no they would have to join the Texas Air guard, and than weasal out on it.
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Post by Zablorg »

While the prospect of being in the military in these times is quite intimidating, I think that they really shouldn't join the army in any case if they weren't prepared to go to war anyway.
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Post by Medic »

Hah! USAF had as low as 16 deserters and at most 56, color me shocked. :lol:
FaxModem1 wrote:Huh, this surprises me.
That it isn't higher? All sounds about right to me, especially the Army.

I bet a disproportionate number of these 1st-term deserters are from Fort Jackson, where they call their trainees "Warriors." :roll: I've actually had an E-5 Sergeant relate to me and some guys that some random-ass private in the PX one day insisted this Sergeant that "you need to call me a warrior, not a private" when he told this soldier to take his hands out of his pockets. Though he didn't use these words, he was basically so flabbergasted that he couldn't think of anything to say or do, just... shocked. :lol: This isn't Army-wide thankfully, just a Ft. Jackson-ism I'm told.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

It matters not. The US military's sole purpose is being hedged by the Saudis, who have just invested in a much larger security force. Your investment in the Middle-East is assured thanks also to BAE Systems and a load of other foreign arms companies.
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Post by Repoman »

SPC Brungardt wrote:I bet a disproportionate number of these 1st-term deserters are from Fort Jackson, where they call their trainees "Warriors." :roll: I've actually had an E-5 Sergeant relate to me and some guys that some random-ass private in the PX one day insisted this Sergeant that "you need to call me a warrior, not a private" when he told this soldier to take his hands out of his pockets.
LOL! Ft. Jackson. Ah, memories. I did my basic/OSUT at Ft. Benning (11-B) but did spend a week at Ft. Jackson in my second term. They are a bunch of leg REMFs. I hope the "warriors" that run away crying for their mothers get hunted down and are forced to do hard time at Leavenworth for deserting their nation during a time of war.

(I recognize that there might actually be some members here that disagree with the US policy of fighting back against terrorists. To those kind-hearted but misguided little fellas I can only suggest that they imagine a world where their sisters can be stoned to death for kissing their boyfriend - that is our enemy)
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Post by Mr. Coffee »

Elfdart wrote:Just following the example set by their commander-in-chief.
:roll:
So what you're saying is that people that have a sense of honor and integrity to stick by their word are "wrong" then? Cause that's what I'm reading...
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Post by Spyder »

Mr. Coffee wrote:
Elfdart wrote:Just following the example set by their commander-in-chief.
:roll:
So what you're saying is that people that have a sense of honor and integrity to stick by their word are "wrong" then? Cause that's what I'm reading...
Only if their word was actually "I promise I'll go overseas and blow up some brown people so the boss can make a few bucks off oil revenue."
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Post by Mr. Coffee »

Spyder wrote:
Mr. Coffee wrote:
Elfdart wrote:Just following the example set by their commander-in-chief.
:roll:
So what you're saying is that people that have a sense of honor and integrity to stick by their word are "wrong" then? Cause that's what I'm reading...
Only if their word was actually "I promise I'll go overseas and blow up some brown people so the boss can make a few bucks off oil revenue."
Yeah, I see that now looking at the wording of my previous post...

But my point still stands. You give your word to do X and Y. You biotch out of that for whatever reason... You don;t like Bush, you don't like iraq, you don't like what-ever-the-fuck...

You still gave your word as a man(or a woman) to stand there and follow the plan your were given and you can either voice a complaint because thewy voilated that contrated or you can be a man(or woman) and stand by your fucking word.

These people swore to stand by there word and they have recourses for things they don't agree with. To just walk away and reneg on there word means they have no honor or integrity.

That's my point. I mean, fuck, if I went around trying to cancel contracts with clients because I didn't like their fucking politics or becuase I didn't quote agree with their buisness model I'd have fucking gone banrupt years ago.
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Post by Spyder »

Mr. Coffee wrote:
Spyder wrote:
Mr. Coffee wrote: So what you're saying is that people that have a sense of honor and integrity to stick by their word are "wrong" then? Cause that's what I'm reading...
Only if their word was actually "I promise I'll go overseas and blow up some brown people so the boss can make a few bucks off oil revenue."
Yeah, I see that now looking at the wording of my previous post...

But my point still stands. You give your word to do X and Y. You biotch out of that for whatever reason... You don;t like Bush, you don't like iraq, you don't like what-ever-the-fuck...

You still gave your word as a man(or a woman) to stand there and follow the plan your were given and you can either voice a complaint because thewy voilated that contrated or you can be a man(or woman) and stand by your fucking word.

These people swore to stand by there word and they have recourses for things they don't agree with. To just walk away and reneg on there word means they have no honor or integrity.

That's my point. I mean, fuck, if I went around trying to cancel contracts with clients because I didn't like their fucking politics or becuase I didn't quote agree with their buisness model I'd have fucking gone banrupt years ago.
You must have laid some really fucking evil floors if doing a job for someone you disagree with would have the same consequences.
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Post by Mr. Coffee »

Spyder wrote:You must have laid some really fucking evil floors if doing a job for someone you disagree with would have the same consequences.
No, sir...

I laid floors for people according to the contract I gave them to sign. I said I would "lay that floor" and they said they "would pay me for it".

That agreement didn't ask anyhting about me liking them, their politics, or their plans. Just like the agrement my little Bros entered into with the USDOD didn't ask about the same.

Their agreements we so much simplier than the one I ask me employees..
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
My brothers swore those oaths and like men thgey stand by their word. They don't ask anything else other than what that oath says. They are MEN and let their words and their deads stand for them.

For that alone I support their families dor everything that they cannot. I am their brother and I owe that to them and to my brothers for doing somnething that I could not do for myself. They both put their own lives on the line in defense of all those I might profit from or rant about.

They did it without whining about Bush. they did it without whining at all. They saw that as their own just diues to pay for their enjoyment of the freedoms we supposedly enjoy. They did that so my supid-self could talk shit to men like you who are members of the "Mess", simply because they have been there and done that in my place.

I honor them, and yes, I hold their word above all others. They signed up for a stretch and they kept their word to Do that and they have done it as well. What better men for me to idolize to my son but my own brothers?

They gave their word as MEN and they followed through on it. Anyone that does less is not a man. If you give you woprd and don't follow through, then fuck you.

I stand by that and I always will.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Repoman wrote:(I recognize that there might actually be some members here that disagree with the US policy of fighting back against terrorists. To those kind-hearted but misguided little fellas I can only suggest that they imagine a world where their sisters can be stoned to death for kissing their boyfriend - that is our enemy)
Because the misguided Iraq policy and invasion qualifies to fighting world Islamic terrorism? Saddam was keeping Iraqi Islamism under thumb. So does "axis of evil" Syria, for example. Assad's dad knew how to take care of Islamist terrorists: he destroyed a city to obliterate the Syrian Islamic Brotherhood.

Besides, even if we did nothing Americans are not going to be subjugated by Islamists imposing shariah here. That's an absurd caricature of the grand strategic situation. Can all you Republitards come up with is these grandiose, wide-eyed hopelessly broad generalizations and bumper sticker-claims?

Please, explain how if we'd never invaded Iraq - or even Afghanistan - we'd have gotten shariah here. This ought to be rich. And who cares what they do to their own people - they WANT it first of all, and second of all, the U.S. experiment in being a successful nation-state will be over quite soon if we dedicate ourselves to a non-hypocritical, even-handed, general policy of righting wrongs in other countries worldwide.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Mr. Coffee wrote:
Spyder wrote:
Mr. Coffee wrote: So what you're saying is that people that have a sense of honor and integrity to stick by their word are "wrong" then? Cause that's what I'm reading...
Only if their word was actually "I promise I'll go overseas and blow up some brown people so the boss can make a few bucks off oil revenue."
Yeah, I see that now looking at the wording of my previous post...

But my point still stands. You give your word to do X and Y. You biotch out of that for whatever reason... You don;t like Bush, you don't like iraq, you don't like what-ever-the-fuck...

You still gave your word as a man(or a woman) to stand there and follow the plan your were given and you can either voice a complaint because thewy voilated that contrated or you can be a man(or woman) and stand by your fucking word.

These people swore to stand by there word and they have recourses for things they don't agree with. To just walk away and reneg on there word means they have no honor or integrity.

That's my point. I mean, fuck, if I went around trying to cancel contracts with clients because I didn't like their fucking politics or becuase I didn't quote agree with their buisness model I'd have fucking gone banrupt years ago.
POTUS' only contract is to serve the wishes of the American people with respect to his competency under the Constitution of the United States of America. Most Americans wish to end the failed Iraq experiment. POTUS has no job obligation to the Iraqi people, and its a damn good thing anyone with a brain understands. What is it with conservatives? GROW UP. The real world of geopolitics isn't a touchy feely land of bullshit where you do things based on honor and right wrongs. Its based on furthering the individual interests of your sovereign state by any means necessary and whatever those interests may be. Period.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Someone please contract this. The above only applies if you were addressing the issue of our national policy. On an individual level, it is disgraceful and unacceptable for enlisted men to desert their service.
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Post by Mr. Coffee »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:POTUS' only contract is to serve the wishes of the American people with respect to his competency under the Constitution of the United States of America.
Which is why they voted his ass in, *I'm a smarmy asshole*?

Even more, so what? Lets say you signed up under the current Admin. You still swore an oath to uphold and execute the lawful given orders of the asshole in charge and not "uphold the lawful orders as long as I agree with them". You raiused your arm adn swore as a man that yoiu would do it.

As I said, stand by your word or be something OTHER THAN a man.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Most Americans wish to end the failed Iraq experiment.
And?

So now we should base our policy off of what the MASSES say? Take that and shove it up your ass, son.




Illuminatus Primus wrote:POTUS has no job obligation to the Iraqi people, and its a damn good thing anyone with a brain understands.

No shit, slap nuts? Gee, I've monly been a US citizen for almost THRITY ONE FUCKING YEARS NOW, and I NEVER ONCE NOTICED THAT... Or that what you just said has JACK and SHIT to do with ANYTHING in the argumeument. Good Jopb, slap nuts...
Illuminatus Primus wrote:What is it with conservatives? GROW UP.
Ok, so what you are saying is that if YOU raise your right hand and give your OATH as a MAN to DO something and the sign your NAME to a LEGAL DOCUMENT swearing the same then that is all part ofa conservative agenda...

Fucking idiot...

The rest of the geopolitical "bullshit" you describe is now colored by the same. Congradualtaions, moron. We now know that you are a worthless sack of shit whos given word or SIGNED word is meaningless.

Have a nice day, you're an asshole.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Mr. Coffee wrote: Which is why they voted his ass in, *I'm a smarmy asshole*?

Even more, so what? Lets say you signed up under the current Admin. You still swore an oath to uphold and execute the lawful given orders of the asshole in charge and not "uphold the lawful orders as long as I agree with them". You raiused your arm adn swore as a man that yoiu would do it.

As I said, stand by your word or be something OTHER THAN a man.
I said individual soldiers who desert are scum. What else do you want? Still, it does bear repeating what Elfdart said that its hardly as if their commander-in-chief is an inspiration to civic virtue or service.
Mr. Coffee wrote:And?

So now we should base our policy off of what the MASSES say? Take that and shove it up your ass, son.
Are we a representative democracy? Or an oligarchy? What makes you, Philosopher-Flooring Specialist, not part of the masses?
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Post by Mr. Coffee »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I said individual soldiers who desert are scum.
Atr least you admit it...

Oh, did I engage in the same soret of cherry picking bullshit you do? Oh well...
'
Illuminatus Primus wrote:What else do you want?
I want you to stop hiding behind others words and stand by what yoiu say, asshole. Don't blame Elfdart for your fucking asshole words. Either stand by them or shut your fucking mouth.

Should I rephrase that in smaller words?
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Still, it does bear repeating what Elfdart said that its hardly as if their commander-in-chief is an inspiration to civic virtue or service.
Once again...

And? Or are you saying (again) that it's perfectly fine for someone to give their legal word, sign on it, anbd then reneg on it because they don't like it?

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Are we a representative democracy? Or an oligarchy? What makes you, Philosopher-Flooring Specialist, not part of the masses?
Then obey your word, ovbey the law, and expose the wrongs in the system by the same, you gutless fucking pussy. If you give your word then stick by it, boy. It's what the rest of of that have BALLS and COCKS do. We sticdk by our verbal word and even more so by our WRITTEN WORD. If you can't do that much then you do NOT deserve the right to be considered an adult, as you cannot enter an agree ment, or give your contractual obligation.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Suck my cock, machismo wanker. I said individual soldiers have an obligation to meet their agreements to serve. No one ever said it was a good thing that soldiers desert, so stopping turning this into a big dick-wave about how HUR HUR MANLY you are versus anyone who says anything other than what you do, regardless of content.

However, Bush is a cowardly, lying cocksucker and it should not be surprising that a growing number of people are unwilling to risk dying when the commander-in-chief is not meeting HIS public obligations, but instead tossing troops into a meat grinder to shore his sad "legacy."

Besides, this has nothing to do with intrinsic manliness or a hard-and-fast absolute rule of contractual obligations. A completely unfair state violates its public obligations and cannot demand the loyalty of even its soldiers, ethically speaking. We need soldiers to meet their obligations to have a functional, strong state, there's no more and no less to it than that.
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Post by Mr. Coffee »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Suck my cock, machismo wanker. I said individual soldiers have an obligation to meet their agreements to serve. No one ever said it was a good thing that soldiers desert,


Which is why you made it sound that anyone that stayed in or supported Bush's politics was wrong, amiright?

Oh, but wait, you said the following...
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Someone please contract this. The above only applies if you were addressing the issue of our national policy. On an individual level, it is disgraceful and unacceptable for enlisted men to desert their service.


Right there, asshole. On one hand you say it;s the RIGHT thing for them to do, but then you cover your ass by saying "they shouldn;t do that" while continueing to denegrate them for following through with their words.


Illuminatus Primus wrote:so stopping turning this into a big dick-wave about how HUR HUR MANLY you are versus anyone who says anything other than what you do, regardless of content.
Regardless oif content, and I dare anyone to contradict me on this too...

You enter into a legally binding agrement with me, you decide to reneg on that agreement for something OTHER than a lawful reason as defined by the contract. You are still wrong and I now have a very optionable legal optertunity to come after you.


Illuminatus Primus wrote:However, Bush is a cowardly, lying cocksucker and it should not be surprising that a growing number of people are unwilling to risk dying when the commander-in-chief is not meeting HIS public obligations, but instead tossing troops into a meat grinder to shore his sad "legacy."
Insert "ZMGD, BUSH IS TEH EVIL>>>>" bullshit here.

SAo because of Bush, anyone that sign a contract from 2001 to current date is now no longer beholden to their contract or to their word, asshole?

Gee, doesn't that kinda negate all the other bullshit you've said thus far?


Illuminatus Primus wrote:Besides, this has nothing to do with intrinsic manliness or a hard-and-fast absolute rule of contractual obligations. A completely unfair state violates its public obligations and cannot demand the loyalty of even its soldiers, ethically speaking. We need soldiers to meet their obligations to have a functional, strong state, there's no more and no less to it than that.
Simple concept, IP. If you give your word and then breakj it you are a LIAR. It your sign your name to a legal document and then renbeg on that you are a LIAR.

Same shit we give Trekkies shit for... DISHONESTY.

See where I'm going yet or should I ask Eion to help you out with pictograms in MSPaint?
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Spyder
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Post by Spyder »

Mr. Coffee wrote:
Spyder wrote:You must have laid some really fucking evil floors if doing a job for someone you disagree with would have the same consequences.
No, sir...

I laid floors for people according to the contract I gave them to sign. I said I would "lay that floor" and they said they "would pay me for it".

That agreement didn't ask anyhting about me liking them, their politics, or their plans. Just like the agrement my little Bros entered into with the USDOD didn't ask about the same.

Their agreements we so much simplier than the one I ask me employees..
You seem to be suggesting that completing a floor laying project for someone you disagree with is somehow an analogy for going to war for someone you disagree with. Exactly how many sovereign nations have been toppled and how many foreign nationals have been slaughtered needlessly by your flooring projects?

Are you telling me that if you agreed to complete a project and you then found out that somehow the completion of this project would somehow result in some unethical situation, you would still complete it because "you gave your word?"
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
My brothers swore those oaths and like men thgey stand by their word. They don't ask anything else other than what that oath says. They are MEN and let their words and their deads stand for them.

For that alone I support their families dor everything that they cannot. I am their brother and I owe that to them and to my brothers for doing somnething that I could not do for myself. They both put their own lives on the line in defense of all those I might profit from or rant about.

They did it without whining about Bush. they did it without whining at all. They saw that as their own just diues to pay for their enjoyment of the freedoms we supposedly enjoy. They did that so my supid-self could talk shit to men like you who are members of the "Mess", simply because they have been there and done that in my place.
Actually, you could be doing this anyway. Right now they're just getting themselves blown up and shot at so people with much larger businesses then your own can find new revenue streams. It bears pointing out that this little rant of yours, charming, manly and patriotic as it is, doesn't actually require men on the ground in Iraq for you to write it.

I honor them, and yes, I hold their word above all others. They signed up for a stretch and they kept their word to Do that and they have done it as well. What better men for me to idolize to my son but my own brothers?

They gave their word as MEN and they followed through on it. Anyone that does less is not a man. If you give you woprd and don't follow through, then fuck you.

I stand by that and I always will.
Well that's good, you should consider signing up. Cheyney's running out of ivory backscratchers and for some reason all his soldiers keep dissapearing. They need more people that will just say "oh damn, I suppose I did sign that piece of paper. Oh well, off I go to start the third world war then."
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Post by Mr. Coffee »

Spyder wrote:You seem to be suggesting that completing a floor laying project for someone you disagree with is somehow an analogy for going to war for someone you disagree with.
So what you're saying is that someone who signs a contract to joiun the MILITARY is to be held to a lesser legal standard than someone who signs a service agreement with a florring installer (or any other construction worker for that matter)?

Spyder wrote:Exactly how many sovereign nations have been toppled and how many foreign nationals have been slaughtered needlessly by your flooring projects?
But, Scarecrow, it was the Lion that got the Heart!

Spyder wrote:Are you telling me that if you agreed to complete a project and you then found out that somehow the completion of this project would somehow result in some unethical situation, you would still complete it because "you gave your word?"
If there was no legal recourse for me, then yes, I would finish the contract that I signed... Because I'm not a dishonest, unethical, dishonorable, non-intregrity having asshole. After that, though, I would not do buisness with a company that put me in such a possition.

Which you'll see, doesn't put me at odds with anything I've said thus far.

But in the case of the weorthless assholes in the OP, they had legal recourse, did not take it, and then violated the terms of their contract. Therefore fuck them.

Or are you saying that now poeple have a valid reason for violating contracts they enter iunto without a legal reason?
Spyder wrote:Actually, you could be doing this anyway. Right now they're just getting themselves blown up and shot at so people with much larger businesses then your own can find new revenue streams.
Like I said, and others have said, where is the legal break in the contract they signed? When are you going to stop with the emotional appeals and stick the the fact that they reneged on a legally binding contract wiuthout a legal reason for doing so?

Or are you yet again suggesting that people can just disengage from contracts simply because they don't like the terms? In that case, I'll go tell Ford I won't be making anymore payments and refernce you as my new lawyer. That work? Just PM me your address, phone number, ect, and I'll get right on that...

Oh, wait, you're the guy that says people that enter into contracts don't have to follow the terms of those contracts... Better not use you as a lawyer.

Spyder wrote: It bears pointing out that this little rant of yours, charming, manly and patriotic as it is, doesn't actually require men on the ground in Iraq for you to write it.
Ya mean just like your counter arguement doesn't require anything more then a "BUSH IS TEH 3V1L!!1SHIFT+ONE11!"? At least my arguemnt is based in something other than what comes out of a cow's ass and regurgfitations of DemUnderground threads, asshole...

Spyder wrote:Well that's good, you should consider signing up.
I tried and got denied. Eitherway, that's as much bullshit as asking anyone to sign up in order to back their words. it's fuckign idiot strawman, and as a SENATOR, you should fuckign know better then that. Fuck, what, was it a slow month when you got nominated?

Spyder wrote:Cheyney's running out of ivory backscratchers and for some reason all his soldiers keep dissapearing.
Yeah. because everyone that thinks people should abid by thewir legally binding word is a right-ring, christoholic, iraqi-baby raping GOP, *I'm a smarmy asshole*?


Why don't you and IP got get a hotel room, a bottle of astroglide, and go fuck yourselves?
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Goddammit, now I'm forced to say in public that I agree with Mr. Coffee. - Mike Wong
I never would have thought I would wholeheartedly agree with Coffee... - fgalkin x2
Honestly, this board is so fucking stupid at times. - Thanas
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Post by Mr. Coffee »

Will an Admin fix my tags for me, please?
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Goddammit, now I'm forced to say in public that I agree with Mr. Coffee. - Mike Wong
I never would have thought I would wholeheartedly agree with Coffee... - fgalkin x2
Honestly, this board is so fucking stupid at times. - Thanas
GALE ForceCarwash: Oh, I'll wax that shit, bitch...
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