New Humpback Whale Study Planned

[Alyrium Denryle]

Additionally, I dont give two shits about the whalewatching industry. I am entirely concerned with the killing of intelligent creatures that have a capacity to suffer that closely approaches our own. And that is purely on utilitarian grounds. Add on the fact that I think we have direct duties toward ecosystems, species, and biodiversity in general that transcend anthropocentric moral concerns, and you can imagine my general outrage

[Covenant]

I do wish them ill and hope they earn no money and much trouble from their thinly-protected illegal whale poaching expedition, but there is a body of law that still allows this so it's not to a point I'd condone shooting the whalers. Just like how I disapprove of the kneejerk "torture them to death!" posts about heinous crime, I'm just not in favor of blasting them.

I'd be in favor of the nations into whose waters they may cross barring them passage, or seeking to board their vessels, or even for a heroic Captain Nemo with a submarine to scare off the whales or sabotage the apparatus on the boat to make the expedition pointless. But shooting them seems a bit extreme, as most of these people are just ignorant blue-collar workers who do fishing and don't really think about whales as societies of intelligent beings. We should be pointing our ire at the whaling lobby, not at the fishermen. I'm just cautioning that a cry of "Kill the Whalers" sounds too much like the false stereotype of the guy who likes animals more than people.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I do wish them ill and hope they earn no money and much trouble from their thinly-protected illegal whale poaching expedition, but there is a body of law that still allows this so it's not to a point I'd condone shooting the whalers. Just like how I disapprove of the kneejerk "torture them to death!" posts about heinous crime, I'm just not in favor of blasting them.

I'd be in favor of the nations into whose waters they may cross barring them passage, or seeking to board their vessels, or even for a heroic Captain Nemo with a submarine to scare off the whales or sabotage the apparatus on the boat to make the expedition pointless. But shooting them seems a bit extreme, as most of these people are just ignorant blue-collar workers who do fishing and don't really think about whales as societies of intelligent beings. We should be pointing our ire at the whaling lobby, not at the fishermen. I'm just cautioning that a cry of "Kill the Whalers" sounds too much like the false stereotype of the guy who likes animals more than people.

You noticed I was talking about the pro-whaling faction members of the IWC right? The fisherman are mostly innocent (mostly). So I dont support them being butchered (though the people who sign their paychecks certainly deserve it, and the scientists who do the "research" certainly do, they should know better)

I am however fully behind the interdiction efforts of groups like Sea Shepherd in this case, regardless of what I think of their other activities, they are right in this one.

[Erik von Nein]

Gah. What's with Japan and their fishing fucking around with keystone predators and endangered species? If it isn't them whaling it's them supporting the fucking awful practice of shark finning, just so they can have shark fine soup. Oh, it's not like Great Whites have enough pressures on them.

[Admiral Valdemar]

They also eat dolphins. Did I mention that?

[Erik von Nein]

Urrgh. I knew they hunted them (still remember the river dolphin hunt pictures were the river was a deep red from all the blood) but I didn't know they were killing 22,000 per year.

[AniThyng]

it's them supporting the fucking awful practice of shark finning, just so they can have shark fine soup. Oh, it's not like Great Whites have enough pressures on them.

I'm pretty sure that's chinese. And unfortunately alyrium is right, Asians in general, not just japanese are quite capable of eating whatever exotic species you care to name.

[Broomstick]

For fuck's sake japan, why dont you just start hunting people, it is about the same fucking thing these animals are so intelligent.

They came pretty close in WW2 in some degrees, I'd say, although they'd totally deny it.

Actually, a number of WWII veterans have come clean on the cannibalism thing. In some cases the troops were literally starving and ate each other for survival which, although I can't be happy about, is quite understandable and can be pardonable. In other cases they ate the locals for reasons that came perilously close to "they're there and convenient"

But back to the OP - seriously, WHAT are they "studying"? How whales taste?

Another stupid thing Japan is doing is helping to make the bluefin tuna an endangered species. Apparently, the global popularity of sushi is making tuna poaching extremely profitable. Japan apparently has no problems with hunting an animal into extinction just for a luxury food. I mean, yeah, I like tuna maki, too, but I'll give it up rather than see tuna vanish from the world.

[darthbob88]

But back to the OP - seriously, WHAT are they "studying"? How whales taste?

Spam +1, I know, but it's an appropriate quote.

The Kappamaki, a whaling research ship, was currently researching the question: How many whales can you catch in one week?

-- (Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman, Good Omens)

[Alyrium Denryle]

to answer the question...


Location: Working my ass off as a Biology major at ASU

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:24 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Now for the rant I promised.

I have done this before, but...

The status quo with international whaling is fucking disgusting. COmmercial whaling is basically illegal in name only because the pro-whaling factions in the IWC manage to force concessions for research. This research, usually "studies on population structure and distribution" is as far as I know, almost never published in reputable journals, most of them are published in the journal Mammal Study. I can let you guess what country that journal is published in... nah... JAPAN! A lot of the others are published in the Journal of Cetacean Research and Management. This is published by the International Whaling Commission. I can literally read the titles and tell you whether the data was obtained through whaling. For example.

Relationship between serum sex hormone concentrations and histology of seminiferous tubules of captured baleen whales in the western north pacific during the feeding season

The pattern of ovarian development in the prepubertal Antarctic minke whale (Balaenoptera bonaerensis)

Surfacing interval of Minke whale Balaenoptera bonaerensis in Antarctic

this one has a full citation

Okamura, Hiroshi, Kitakado, Toshihide, Mori, Mitsuyo
An improved method for line transect sampling in Antarctic minke whale surveys
Journal of Cetacean Research and Management 7 (2): 97-106 FAL 2005


All of these were published in obscure journals that no one ever reads

[Alyrium Denryle]

copied thart from another post on another board, only the article names were intended to be present... should have proof read.

If a mod could be so kind as to delete it and allow this post to stand I would be most appreciative

This research, usually "studies on population structure and distribution" is as far as I know, almost never published in reputable journals, most of them are published in the journal Mammal Study. I can let you guess what country that journal is published in... nah... JAPAN! A lot of the others are published in the Journal of Cetacean Research and Management. This is published by the International Whaling Commission. I can literally read the titles and tell you whether the data was obtained through whaling. For example.

Relationship between serum sex hormone concentrations and histology of seminiferous tubules of captured baleen whales in the western north pacific during the feeding season

The pattern of ovarian development in the prepubertal Antarctic minke whale (Balaenoptera bonaerensis)

Surfacing interval of Minke whale Balaenoptera bonaerensis in Antarctic

this one has a full citation

Okamura, Hiroshi, Kitakado, Toshihide, Mori, Mitsuyo
An improved method for line transect sampling in Antarctic minke whale surveys
Journal of Cetacean Research and Management 7 (2): 97-106 FAL 2005

You want to know how informative the hormone correlates of seminiferous tubules are in minke whales... to anyone is? It isnt. Flat out, the information is nifty, but no ethics committee in any country but japan would ever consider the benefit to outweigh the cost, and if they did they would insist on using naturally beached whales and species of opportunity like Pilot Whales, and generalize the findings.

This "research" is a sham. A cover for those nations whos people enjoy feeding on the flesh of intelligent creatures.

[Covenant]

But back to the OP - seriously, WHAT are they "studying"? How whales taste?

It was a joke about the stupidity of Japan's "research" program that they use to hunt whales. I was hoping to shock and horrify people who were hoping to find a new study on whalesongs, to get them to yell at the Japanese. Everyone on the planet knows what they're actually doing, and there's no reason to hunt 50 humpbacks for 'food' so it's not even justifiable harvesting operation.

[Broomstick]

I'm none too happy about indigenous arctic peoples hunting their whale quotas, either, but at least those groups seem to only take one or two a year, are willing to stick to relatively plentiful species, and have been known to forego the whale hunt and/or the eating part in exchange for cash for which to buy various necessities such as other forms of food (The Shedd Aquarium in Chicago acquired their belugas by paying such groups - buying live whales from them rather than the hunters eating them. No one seemed particularly upset by any of this, except some animal rights people who objected to the whales being held captive and totally missing the point that otherwise these whales would have been eaten, not swimming wild and free.) They aren't using factory ships to systematically hunt down any and all species. If that was the only whale hunting going on the populations would rebound because they are taking so few. More whales probably beach themselves in a year than are eaten by arctic tribal groups.

Japan is the worst offender, but frankly, I see no reason for other developed countries to be doing this. There are more than enough alternative foods and it's just stupid and wasteful to hunt endangered species. Yes, it's their "cultural tradition", too, but they're wealthy enough to have viable alternatives to what used to be subsistence hunting but is now not necessary for survival nor hunting but rather sheer slaughter. It's not some glorious tribal tradition of going out and directly capturing the food on your table, it's a commercial fishing operation driven by pure profit and greed.

[Erik von Nein]

I'm pretty sure that's chinese. And unfortunately alyrium is right, Asians in general, not just japanese are quite capable of eating whatever exotic species you care to name.

Durrr. I should have known that when I posted. Bah. Stupid me mixing those two up. *smacks forehead*

I know East Asians in general are really bad at this sort of thing, supported by third-world nations who don't give a damn about what they're hunting or are so poor that the bucket-loads of cash that are given for hunting these species. But Japan in particular just pisses me the Hell off, probably because of my marine biology bent. But how many other nations are trying to force throught endangered species hunting quota increases? On large, intelligent and incredibly important species? Especially when whale meat is apparently not even that popular in Japan itself!

[Rogue 9]

*Ahem*

Just out of idle curiosity, if an SSN just "happened" to be in the area of the hunt, about how likely is it for a harpooner to mistake the outline of the sub for a whale and make the fatal mistake of shooting at the United States Navy?

[Ritterin Sophia]

*Ahem*

Just out of idle curiosity, if an SSN just "happened" to be in the area of the hunt, about how likely is it for a harpooner to mistake the outline of the sub for a whale and make the fatal mistake of shooting at the United States Navy?

The idea of japanese whalers shooting a USN SSN is hilarious.

[Erik von Nein]

Just out of idle curiosity, if an SSN just "happened" to be in the area of the hunt, about how likely is it for a harpooner to mistake the outline of the sub for a whale and make the fatal mistake of shooting at the United States Navy?

I dunno. So far the US has a greater chance of accidentally surfacing just under the whaling ship. I mean, it's happened before. Of course, the last time was a normal fishing ship, but still.

[Chardok]

Godspeed to The Farley Mowat and Robert Hunter: May they end the "research" quickly.

[Sarevok]

Just out of idle curiosity, if an SSN just "happened" to be in the area of the hunt, about how likely is it for a harpooner to mistake the outline of the sub for a whale and make the fatal mistake of shooting at the United States Navy?

I dunno. So far the US has a greater chance of accidentally surfacing just under the whaling ship. I mean, it's happened before. Of course, the last time was a normal fishing ship, but still.

I am not sure. Fishing boats can be the most lethal anti submarine weapons in peacetime as one Soviet submarine crew can tell you after they got rammed...

[Big Orange]

These pro-whaling officials in Japan lying through their teeth about "research" have the same dishonest, intentionally malicious mindset as Imperial Japanese apologists who grossly play down the horrors of Nanking in 1937, or make hollow boasts about Japan's supposed "racial purity" in comparison to fellow Asians.

[Sarevok]

Nitpick I know but I doubt they are intentionally malicious. No one is evil for evil's sake; unless you work for Austin Power's arch nemesis.

*sniffs finger*

They Japanese probably have attitude towards whales as slaughtering cows for meat. Unless of course the whaling industry is a cover for a diabolical scheme to take over the world.

[Darth Wong]

Nitpick I know but I doubt they are intentionally malicious. No one is evil for evil's sake; unless you work for Austin Power's arch nemesis.

No, but people can lie for self-interest, and be perfectly aware that they're doing it.

[petesampras]

The new generation of high powered US navy sonar presents a potentially far greater threat to whales and dolphins than the Japanese hunting a few.

[Alyrium Denryle]

The new generation of high powered US navy sonar presents a potentially far greater threat to whales and dolphins than the Japanese hunting a few.

Potentially. But just because one threat exists does not mitigate the other. And 50 isd actually a good number when there are only a few thousand left, in populations that are slow to reproduce those numbers with their feeding grounds being disturbed by global climate change?

[Stuart Mackey]

Does Japan even do any research? They should lose their research quota allowances if they don't do proper research.

HAHAHAHAHAHAH! Proper research! Dont make me laugh. They claim to be studying population and age structure, anf genetic diversity IIRC. The thing is, none of that requires the killing of a single whale. There is very little research in population biology that ever requires killing an organism.

Research? Have you seen our new cook book, 101 new recipes for whale?