WaPo: Iowa, Obama 30, Clinton 26, Edwards 22

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WaPo: Iowa, Obama 30, Clinton 26, Edwards 22

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+http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 7111900946
The top three Democratic contenders remain locked in a close battle in Iowa, with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) seeing her advantages diminish on key fronts, including the questions of experience and which candidate is best prepared to handle the war in Iraq, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

Illinois Senator Barack Obama gets the support of 30 percent of likely Democratic caucus-goers in Iowa, compared to 26 percent for Clinton, 22 percent for former senator John Edwards and 11 percent for New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson. The results are only marginally changed from a Post-ABC poll in late July, but in a state likely to set the course for the rest of the nominating process, there are significant signs of progress for Obama -- and harbingers of concern for Clinton.


The factors that have made Clinton the clear national front-runner -- including her overwhelming leads on the issues of Iraq and health care, a widespread sense that she is the Democrats' most electable candidate, and her strong support among women -- do not appear to be translating on the ground in Iowa, where campaigning is already fierce and television ads have been running for months.

Obama is running even with Clinton among women in Iowa, drawing 32 percent to her 31 percent, despite the fact that the Clinton campaign has built its effort around attracting female voters.

At the heart of the Democratic race has been the dichotomy between strength and experience (qualities emphasized by Clinton, Richardson and Sens. Joe Biden and Chris Dodd) and the ability to introduce a new approach to governing (as Obama and Edwards have promised to do).

Iowa Democrats are tilting toward change: 55 percent reported that a "new direction and new ideas" are their top priority, compared with 33 percent who favored "strength and experience." That is a shift from July, when 49 percent sought change and 39 percent experience.

Nationally, Clinton is viewed as a candidate of change, winning 41 percent of Democrats who say they are seeking a new direction in a recent Post-ABC poll. But in Iowa, Obama dominates the so-called "change" vote, winning 43 percent of those voters, compared with 25 percent for Edwards and 17 percent for Clinton.

Still, Clinton retains a comfortable lead among Iowa voters who consider strength and experience more important, with 38 percent compared with 19 percent for Edwards, 18 percent for Richardson and 12 percent for Obama, according to the new survey.

Obama has made key gains. His support is up 8 percentage points since July among voters aged 45 and older -- who comprised two-thirds of Iowa caucus-goers in 2004.

And despite widespread impressions that Obama is banking on unreliable first-time voters, Clinton depends on them heavily as well: About half of her supporters say they have never attended a caucus before, compared with 43 percent of first-timers for Obama and 24 percent for Edwards. Previous attendance is one of the strongest indicators of who will turn out to vote.

That gap helps explain Clinton's recent push to get voters to show up on caucus night (including a lively "caucusing is easy" video featuring former Pres. Bill Clinton and a juicy hamburger) and also illustrates why Edwards, with his cadre of experienced caucusgoers, remains a formidable threat.

In another positive shift for Obama, the Illinois senator is increasingly not only the first but also the second choice of Iowa voters, an important trend in a state where voters often switch their support at the last minute after sizing up the political landscape.

Among Edwards supporters, 43 percent said they would make Obama their second choice, up from 32 percent who said so in July.

There was also some movement among Obama supporters: in the new poll, 32 percent said they would choose Clinton second, down from 45 percent four months ago.

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According to Democratic Party rules, a candidate must draw at least 15 percent at each caucus site for the votes to count; if that fails to happen, their supporters often throw their votes to a more viable contender. Combining the second-choice picks of candidates outside the top three, 34 percent would select Obama, 28 percent Edwards and only 15 percent Clinton.

Most supporters of each of the top three said they will "definitely" support their chosen candidate on Jan. 3 of next year. Few, only about two in 10, said there is a "good chance" they will change their minds. That level of certainty suggests the race will continue to be close in the weeks ahead.

Voters in Iowa continue to view Clinton as the most viable of the Democrats, although her advantage is significanltly smaller than it is nationally. About four in 10 Iowa voters called her the Democrats' best hope for November 2008, a quarter said it is Obama, 22 percent Edwards. In the latest Post-ABC national poll, 62 percent said she is the party's strongest general election candidate.

The results of the survey, conducted Nov. 14 to 18, underscore the urgency and fluidity of the contest as it heads into its final seven-week stretch. It was conducted by telephone among a random sample of 500 Iowa adults likely to vote in the 2008 Democratic presidential caucus; the results have a margin of sampling error of plus or minus four percentage points.
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Iraq and health care dominate as the campaign's top issues. A third of likely voters call the Iraq war the single biggest issue in their choice for the nominee, 26 percent said it is health care. Ten percent highlight the economy and jobs, and all other issues are in the single digits.

The race at the local level only somewhat resembles the national campaign. While Clinton held a 51-point lead on the question of which Democrat would best handle the issue of health care in a national Post-ABC poll in late September, she now has a narrow 9-point on that same question in Iowa.

And Clinton does not have a meaningful edge on the five other issues tested in this poll. Obama rivals her, with 26 percent to 23 percent, on who would best handle Iran. He matches her on who would best handle the economy and Social Security. On Iraq -- on which Clinton prevailed with a 12-point lead in a similar survey in July -- Obama is now even, preferred by 26 percent of those surveyed compared to 23 percent for Clinton and 15 percent each for Edwards and Richardson.

Richardson, the only Hispanic candidate in the race, registered in fourth place on a number of questions. But on the explosive matter of immigration, 25 percent said they trust him the most. During the Democratic debate in Las Vegas last Thursday night, Richardson gave a clear answer to the question of whether he would give drivers licenses to illegal immigrants, saying that as governor, he already had. The same question has flummoxed both Clinton and Obama at various points.

On the issue of experience, 38 percent call Clinton the most well-suited for the White House, significantly more than said so about other candidates. However, Clinton's number on that question has slipped from 50 percent in late July. On that question she dropped 17 percentage points among men, and 8 points among women. Over the same time period, Obama picked up points among women for understanding the problems of people like them, drawing 33 percent, up from 25 percent in July. Clinton remained steady on that question, with about a quarter saying she is best on this.

Regardless of whom they support, voters reported being deeply involved in -- or at least bombarded by -- the campaign well ahead of the final stretch. More than half said they had already attended a campaign event. More than four in 10 had been to a candidate's Web site; two in 10 had donated money. One in three said they had personally spoken to or shaken hands with one of the Democratic candidates. Eight in 10 report receiving calls from one or more of the campaigns, 38 percent have been e-mailed. And an overwhelming nine out of 10 people who attended a previous caucus said they had already been called by one of the campaigns.

Polling analyst Jennifer Agiesta contributed to this report.
We're about a month out in Iowa. Hillary is up by double digits in most other primary states at this point.

Apologies for any random shit appearing it the article; the WaPo's articles are cluttered up with adds and promos, and this is a long article.
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Post by Rogue 9 »

Just a little tip: Copy from the printer-friendly version; it doesn't have all the advertising bullshit or the links to other stories.

Anyway, that's very interesting. Annoying that Iowa is going to shape the Presidential race almost singlehandedly, but that's a complaint for every single election year. *Shrug*
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Post by Mlenk »

Is there something particularly unique about Iowa that makes it a consistently crucial swing-state every election year?
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Post by Rogue 9 »

Mlenk wrote:Is there something particularly unique about Iowa that makes it a consistently crucial swing-state every election year?
It and New Hampshire hold their primaries before all the other states, so the outcome there influences what all the other primary voters do.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Rogue 9 wrote:
Mlenk wrote:Is there something particularly unique about Iowa that makes it a consistently crucial swing-state every election year?
It and New Hampshire hold their primaries before all the other states, so the outcome there influences what all the other primary voters do.
Why do voters in other states care what Iowa decides, even if Iowa does go first? Is it some kind of herd mentality, ie- "Candidate #3 won in Iowa, so I must vote for him myself?"
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Post by LMSx »

Darth Wong wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
Mlenk wrote:Is there something particularly unique about Iowa that makes it a consistently crucial swing-state every election year?
It and New Hampshire hold their primaries before all the other states, so the outcome there influences what all the other primary voters do.
Why do voters in other states care what Iowa decides, even if Iowa does go first? Is it some kind of herd mentality, ie- "Candidate #3 won in Iowa, so I must vote for him myself?"
Basically. It was a little disheartening to see voters drop Edwards and Dean off the map like they did in 2004 solely because Kerry won Iowa. That Kerry guy must be a winner!
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Post by Guardsman Bass »

Darth Wong wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
Mlenk wrote:Is there something particularly unique about Iowa that makes it a consistently crucial swing-state every election year?
It and New Hampshire hold their primaries before all the other states, so the outcome there influences what all the other primary voters do.
Why do voters in other states care what Iowa decides, even if Iowa does go first? Is it some kind of herd mentality, ie- "Candidate #3 won in Iowa, so I must vote for him myself?"
It actually is a kind of herd mentality, so to speak. What happens is that if a candidates wins firmly in one of these races, the media (if he/she was in the lead) portrays him/her as the Champion Pulling Away From the Pack, or if he was behind, The Upstart Pulling Ahead (or some other totally bullshit media 'storyline'). People start thinking, "Wow, if he won there, then he's probably electable", funds start pouring in along with new volunteers, and the campaign grows more powerful.
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Post by Darth Holbytlan »

Darth Wong
Though I'm sure herd mentality plays a big role, I suspect it has a lot to do with weeding out other candidates. In other words, those who place significantly behind the top vote-getters are viewed as not viable, and voters don't want to waste their votes on them.

This is probably even rational in first-past-the-post systems, which really does penalize third- and worst-place votes.
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Post by Rogue 9 »

Darth Wong wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
Mlenk wrote:Is there something particularly unique about Iowa that makes it a consistently crucial swing-state every election year?
It and New Hampshire hold their primaries before all the other states, so the outcome there influences what all the other primary voters do.
Why do voters in other states care what Iowa decides, even if Iowa does go first? Is it some kind of herd mentality, ie- "Candidate #3 won in Iowa, so I must vote for him myself?"
Partly, but it's also that, once a candidate has one state primary win under his belt, his campaign will typically be able to generate more money and bring in more volunteers because he's already ahead.

I say fuck New Hampshire state law and just have them all on the same day, but that's not going to happen.
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Post by CmdrWilkens »

Mlenk wrote:Is there something particularly unique about Iowa that makes it a consistently crucial swing-state every election year?
Part of it is that the caucus system is VERY different from what most people imagine primaries to be. When you think of primaries most folks just imagine a general election only with voters only from one party. The caucus system is much more of a local debate group meeting where everyone can shift alleigance every 30 minutes.

So when you have a typical primary you just have to brainwash folks as they might never see a person with an opposing view until the last 15 feet before the poll which means views of the populace as a whole change slowly are rarely. In the caucus system every 30 minutes you are literally in a room where supporters of each candidate will try and get you to come join their side of the room. So the alignment of voters can literally change every 30 minutes and means the populations intentions and second choices can suddenly become first choices rather quickly. It also means the voters shift to smaller changes.
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Post by Mr. T »

Rogue 9 wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote: It and New Hampshire hold their primaries before all the other states, so the outcome there influences what all the other primary voters do.
Why do voters in other states care what Iowa decides, even if Iowa does go first? Is it some kind of herd mentality, ie- "Candidate #3 won in Iowa, so I must vote for him myself?"
Partly, but it's also that, once a candidate has one state primary win under his belt, his campaign will typically be able to generate more money and bring in more volunteers because he's already ahead.

I say fuck New Hampshire state law and just have them all on the same day, but that's not going to happen.
And it's amazing how quickly allegiances will shift. TIME magazine had an article in 2004 mentioning how Howard Dean's supporters in New Hampshire literally changed their allegiance to Kerry overnight. The media seems to perpetuate the idea that Iowa decides everything too. I can't count how many times I've heard "He needs a big win in Iowa or New Hampshire or he/she's out of the race".

With the primaries spaced so close this year I think whoever wins in Iowa is going to take the nomination yet again. You just need to have momentum the first two weeks when primaries are held and you've pretty much locked up the race.

Good that Obama is ahead, although the poll probably doesn't mean anythng at this stage. He was one of the more impressive candidates in the last debate. He gave real answers (or as close to real as you can expect from someone running for President). The biggest let-down was Hillary Clinton, it's as if she's not even trying anymore to hide the fact that she's dodging every question. Her answers would often come down to "we'll put together a bipartisan commission to look in to the matter". I'd give the debate to Obama and Biden.

What I'm hoping above all is that Edward's doesn't take the nomination. He drew a surprising second place finish last time around in Iowa despite spending alot less money and time then Kerry or Dean though. And I think Iowa is going to be far more inclined to elect him based on the other options.
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Post by RIPP_n_WIPE »

Personally I favor Obama. He just seems to offer a balanced yet hard nosed approach, especially on abortion, which is definitely a heated debating topic.

Incidentally, do any of you have links to some of the live debates. I would definitely like to see some.

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Post by Darth Raptor »

Darth Wong wrote:Why do voters in other states care what Iowa decides, even if Iowa does go first? Is it some kind of herd mentality, ie- "Candidate #3 won in Iowa, so I must vote for him myself?"
Nonsense. Clearly our two million suburban white folks have their collective finger on the pulse of the nation.
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Post by Tsyroc »

I used to get the impression that Iowa and New Hampshire wins were only good for getting a little starting momentum. They could be great if the canidate had previously been flying kind of low on the radar but I hardly thought of either being all that important. It certainly is possible for the winners of Iowa and New Hampshire to completely get their asses kicked later on in the race for the nomination.

Now, if Florida had been allowed to be the first primary I might be more concerned about one state deciding it all just because Florida has enough electoral votes that if it went one way or another during a primary that might actually mean something to people who decide how they are going to vote by checking which way the wind is blowing.

As things currently are I wouldn't get too excited if Obama wins Iowa since he's from Illinois. He's going to get a few bonus points just from being from a neighbor state (even though it's Illinois :wink: ). If he buries everyone else it might be worth taking note of but it could also be written off as a fluke.

By the way, can't anyone vote in the caucuses in Iowa? I mean, I don't think you have to be of a particular party to vote for particular canidate.
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Post by Darth Raptor »

I'm not sure. This will be my first caucus, but I'd like to vote in the Republican one too so I can throw my feeble support behind Ron Paul. I feel so sorry for that guy. I wish I could give him a hug, even if he is a lolbertarian. :cry:
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Post by Tsyroc »

Darth Raptor wrote:I'm not sure. This will be my first caucus, but I'd like to vote in the Republican one too so I can throw my feeble support behind Ron Paul. I feel so sorry for that guy. I wish I could give him a hug, even if he is a lolbertarian. :cry:
I wasn't old enough to vote until after I moved from Iowa so I can't remember how the caucuses work.

I wouldn't mind seeing Ron Paul at least do well enough to have some impact on what the party does but I doubt that'll happen.
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Post by Durandal »

Tsyroc wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing Ron Paul at least do well enough to have some impact on what the party does but I doubt that'll happen.
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Post by Flagg »

Darth Wong wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
Mlenk wrote:Is there something particularly unique about Iowa that makes it a consistently crucial swing-state every election year?
It and New Hampshire hold their primaries before all the other states, so the outcome there influences what all the other primary voters do.
Why do voters in other states care what Iowa decides, even if Iowa does go first? Is it some kind of herd mentality, ie- "Candidate #3 won in Iowa, so I must vote for him myself?"
I have no fucking clue, and never have. I vote for who I want to win no matter how other states voted.
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Post by ray245 »

I prefer a Obama/clinton combination for 2008.
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Post by Xisiqomelir »

ray245 wrote:I prefer a Obama/clinton combination for 2008.
Bush has been pretty decent to Singapore, no? USSFTA is a great escape hatch for people fleeing the PAP regime. With all the brouhaha here over immigration, I'm pretty sure that's a path out of the Straits that's going to be shut off soon, I'm just happy I could take advantage of it.
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Post by Glocksman »

During the Democratic debate in Las Vegas last Thursday night, Richardson gave a clear answer to the question of whether he would give drivers licenses to illegal immigrants, saying that as governor, he already had. The same question has flummoxed both Clinton and Obama at various points.
Like or dislike him, at least he answered the question.
Hillary's obvious dodging (and rumored subsequent armtwisting of Gov. Spitzer to withdraw the proposal) on the issue only reinforced her image as someone who has no real principles and who will say anything to be elected.

As it stands, despite his illegal immigration stances I support Richardson the most out of all of the Democrats and would vote for him in a general election over any of the Republican contenders.
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Xisiqomelir wrote:
ray245 wrote:I prefer a Obama/clinton combination for 2008.
Bush has been pretty decent to Singapore, no? USSFTA is a great escape hatch for people fleeing the PAP regime. With all the brouhaha here over immigration, I'm pretty sure that's a path out of the Straits that's going to be shut off soon, I'm just happy I could take advantage of it.
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