What is wrong with the Tau?

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Cykeisme
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Post by Cykeisme »

Adrian Laguna wrote:
NecronLord wrote:Interestingly, back in RT, 'Dreadnought Armour' - as in battlesuits - wasn't that rare. It was rare, but the Imperium had it. They may actually have some heavy power armour like that outside of the compact version the Astartes wear (Hence, tactical dreadnought armour) somewhere...
Not only do they have it "somewhere", most of the older chapters have several. I'm pretty sure the Imperium can make new ones, just that the foundries that make them are very few and work rather slowly.
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I think NecronLord is referring to something different. He's saying that the (now defunct) Rogue Trader had references to battlesuits that men can wear, that let them be all stompy and shooty.
The Dreadnoughts we have now contain a sarcophagus that contains the body of a near-dead Space Marine, different in appearance and in function.
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Bob the Gunslinger
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Post by Bob the Gunslinger »

Are these the same thing as the Knights that the Imperium used to field back in Rogue Trader days that were kind of like mini Titans? Or were they more like Dreadnoughts for the living?
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Post by Lost Soal »

Tactical Dreadnaught Armour was just the formal name of Terminator Armour. Also, I would suspect that its just the Astartes armouries which can't build new Terminator Armour for some reason while the Ad Mech can but generally only do so for special and/or powerful people and for newly created chapters
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Post by Imperial Overlord »

In Rogue Trader, Dreadnought was just one type of vehicle. They were pretty similar to Space Marine Dreadnoughts, but everybody had them. Wraithlords, War Walkers, Killer Kanz, etcetera are all the latter edition descendents of the Rogue Trader dreandnoughts.
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Post by white_rabbit »

Lost Soal wrote:Tactical Dreadnaught Armour was just the formal name of Terminator Armour. Also, I would suspect that its just the Astartes armouries which can't build new Terminator Armour for some reason while the Ad Mech can but generally only do so for special and/or powerful people and for newly created chapters
Its been batted back and forth in various articles that while Termy armour is rare and difficult to build, its not impossible, and a limited amount of suits are constructed. I've got the references on my computer, or would have if it wasnt' deader than dead as of yesterday!

Similarly Dreadnaught armour suits.
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Post by Connor MacLeod »

The Rogue Star novel mentions a Rogue tRader in olden times supposedly being taken away by the AdMech and placed into his own personal set of Dreadnought armour. And in the second Inquisition War novel, a guy escaped the ASsassin temples(whichever one meh'lindi was from) and had his body stuck into a suit of Dreadnought armour stolen from some Space Marine chapter (IIRC.) Noone commented on the guy being in the armour on the planet (even if it was remote), and the Spacee Marines didn't appear to have missed it.

Rogue Star also had the selfsame Rogue tRader dude possessing his own suit of powered armour (though without a helmet.) As I recall it also mentioned him having armour (plural as in more than one kind) the equal in protection to Astartes Terminator armour.
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Post by Connor MacLeod »

white_rabbit wrote: Its been batted back and forth in various articles that while Termy armour is rare and difficult to build, its not impossible, and a limited amount of suits are constructed. I've got the references on my computer, or would have if it wasnt' deader than dead as of yesterday!

Similarly Dreadnaught armour suits.
I recall those somewhere as well. Of course some sources also suggest that the Admech can no longer build Titans, while others say they can (and it just takes a fuck-off long time.) :P

Anyhow, if you really think about it, if Termy armour weren't producible anymore, they probably should have run out at some point. Most space marine first companies (the ones using the Terminator armour) can get some pretty hefty casualties, and that baiscally means destroying the armour in the process. Even allowing for some salvage, they'd have to have new suits built or they'd never be able to maintain their First companies in termy armour at all.
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Post by NecronLord »

Connor MacLeod wrote:The Rogue Star novel mentions a Rogue tRader in olden times supposedly being taken away by the AdMech and placed into his own personal set of Dreadnought armour. And in the second Inquisition War novel, a guy escaped the ASsassin temples(whichever one meh'lindi was from) and had his body stuck into a suit of Dreadnought armour stolen from some Space Marine chapter (IIRC.) Noone commented on the guy being in the armour on the planet (even if it was remote), and the Spacee Marines didn't appear to have missed it.
Tarik Ziz, secundus of Callidus, did indeed steal a dreadnought. But he seems to have been amniotic in it. Meh'lindi and Lexandro consider attempting to stopper up its heat exchangers so he'll fry in his own juices, but eventually have to leave him for someone else to kill.

The Callidus shrine was searching for him, and surely if they knew where it went, the Chapter it belonged to would take revenge, just on principle.
Rogue Star also had the selfsame Rogue tRader dude possessing his own suit of powered armour (though without a helmet.) As I recall it also mentioned him having armour (plural as in more than one kind) the equal in protection to Astartes Terminator armour.
Interesting.
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Post by white_rabbit »

Its exceedingly likely if not confirmed that "power" armour, i.e. an exoskeletal suit can be reproduced in the Imperium.

It becomes a question of how good it is compared to the most recognisable stuff, i.e. marine armour, some instances it seems to be merely carapace armour with some artifical musculature/support.

Bounty hunters, Rogue traders, Inquisitors, Ministorum agents have all been seen equipped with power armour, and when it comes down to it, termy armour is just a more powerful version, with extra doodads.

Hell, they've even customised marine armour to fit a normal human Inquisitor, which IMO would take some doing, and Inquisitors have been equipped with termy armour, sometimes even customised termy suits for years.

Most space marine first companies (the ones using the Terminator armour) can get some pretty hefty casualties, and that baiscally means destroying the armour in the process. Even allowing for some salvage, they'd have to have new suits built or they'd never be able to maintain their First companies in termy armour at all.
You don't neccessarily have to destroy termy armour to kill the occupant, not even close in some instances.

I probably helps that they have teleport homers built in, as long as the armour hasn't been annihilated, or completely torn asunder, the part with the homer in it can be retrieved, and indeed this has been shown in at least one comic, dead marines retrieved along with their equipment.

But yeah, you need to build new armour, and if you can custom build from scratch a set of artificer armour, you can damn well build a bulkier terminator suit.
Are these the same thing as the Knights that the Imperium used to field back in Rogue Trader days that were kind of like mini Titans? Or were they more like Dreadnoughts for the living?
Knights are more like battlemech/stomper size.
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Post by Sidewinder »

Regarding dreadnoughts, I found this on their manufacture:
Wikipedia wrote:Venerable Dreadnoughts are prone to malfunction and the parts needed to update them can no longer be manufactured. Some of these ancient behemoths no longer resemble the current mass production Dreadnoughts and are bulky and cumbersome. Others stand towering over their foes like elegantly crafted statues ready to smite their enemies.

The original design for scratch-building dreadnoughts have been long lost and so newer versions of these behemoths (if any exist) can only be built from spare/salvaged parts. This is evident in the Iron Hands chapter as they have very few of these beasts after the Drop Site Massacre.
I think it's bullshit that the Imperium can no longer build new dreadnoughts, but I'm not one of the guys who writes fluff for WH40K.
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Post by Imperial Overlord »

Sidewinder wrote:Regarding dreadnoughts, I found this on their manufacture:
Wikipedia wrote:Venerable Dreadnoughts are prone to malfunction and the parts needed to update them can no longer be manufactured. Some of these ancient behemoths no longer resemble the current mass production Dreadnoughts and are bulky and cumbersome. Others stand towering over their foes like elegantly crafted statues ready to smite their enemies.

The original design for scratch-building dreadnoughts have been long lost and so newer versions of these behemoths (if any exist) can only be built from spare/salvaged parts. This is evident in the Iron Hands chapter as they have very few of these beasts after the Drop Site Massacre.
I think it's bullshit that the Imperium can no longer build new dreadnoughts, but I'm not one of the guys who writes fluff for WH40K.
Well that wikipedia quote, if correct, only indicates that they can no longer produce venerable dreadnought quality machines. It specifically states that modern models are mass produced, which does mean the Imperium can and does build new dreadnoughts.

As for Tactical Dreadnough Armour, I'm presdispossed to believe that Terminator armour is difficult to build and beyond the capacity of most places to create, but is still built in limited numbers.
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