Alcohol causes cancer

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2007-11-19 08:00pm

Oddly enough, this topic of free-range meat and the like was the topic of last night's King Of The Hill. Hank got sick of crappy Mega-Lo Meats.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-11-20 03:35am

Justforfun000 wrote:Salads are great for you with all of the mixtures of antioxidants and flavenoids, but look at the pain in the ass of getting it ready? Meat is relatively simple for the main fast foods. Throw on a burger and fry the shit out of it. Throw a chicken in the oven with some salt and butter slapped on it and take it out ready in an hour.

Man, fuck salads. I hate salads so much. Salads make me want to die. I almost couldn't eat my meatloaf tonight because coughing down a fucking salad almost made me lose my appetite entirely. I hate salads. But I hate salad dressing more--I eat the salads with a little bit of salsa on them, and throw some of the meat or pasta from my meal in there. It's almost tolerable when I have ravioli for dinner.

And even though I eat them each night, I do it because it's acutally convenient to the people I eat with, and besides, it's not hard. Just get a salad mix and throw it in a bowl. Viola! Done! I dunno what other people put in a salad, but salads take me all of 3 seconds to prepare. It's all that other bullshit people put in there (cheese, crutons, etc) that makes them a bit hassle. If you want to chop an onion or radish or something and add some zong, go ahead--it takes less time than de-boning a chicken or pulling off all the goddamn fucking disgusting fat and skin.

Besides, there's not a damn thing in a salad that you can't get otherwise. Leafy dark greens? Cook them with the meat. Onions too. Celery? Carrots? Eat them raw--and abstain from dressing. They're crunchy and taste good. You can even eat radishes that way, though cutting into wedges and coins is good too. As for fruits, get small ones that are good for snacking (small apples and oranges) and just chop one into six pieces and stick it on the table. Bam! Another 10 seconds of effort and you have easily accessed fruit in quantities that are not frustratingly huge.

People act like you need to eat a head of lettuce each night. Lettuce is really worthless, by and large. Every veggie you need to eat can be prepared in the meal, cooked and set as a side dish (I love to steam broccoli), or munched raw from a pile on a plate in the center of the table.

Thing is, it's NOT hard in terms of time to eat healthy. It's not even more expensive--as bagged carrots can be cheap and pretty filling, and celery too. Moreso than meat. It's that people choose to eat what they want rather than make any effort at all, they're not preparing anything whatsoever. They're not even doing something smart, like buying a chicken from Boston Market, and serving with with canned corn reheated. You can make a quick meal that's good for you and cheap as hell if you used your brain for more than one minute.

I have no sympathy for such people, because it is so extremely easy to make a quick meal that's also healthy. There's no excuse. They're abstaining from their own health. If you're in college and broke, you have no options. But it's really a crime that we don't try harder to show normal people how simple it would be to combine things into quick, cheap, tasty and healthy meals. Bleh. It's a rant of mine. I love to cook, and do it on a tight budget in record speed. I'm always amazed when people say they don't have time. Do they work 18 hours a day?

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-11-20 04:40am

Man, I'm sick of people bitching about salad. Salad is awesome. You can eat a fuckton of it and still lose weight. I'd kill to be able to eat salad. Unfortunately I gag on that shit like it's poison.

Justforfun000 · Post by **Justforfun000** » 2007-11-20 06:19am

Man, fuck salads. I hate salads so much. Salads make me want to die. I almost couldn't eat my meatloaf tonight because coughing down a fucking salad almost made me lose my appetite entirely. I hate salads. But I hate salad dressing more--I eat the salads with a little bit of salsa on them, and throw some of the meat or pasta from my meal in there. It's almost tolerable when I have ravioli for dinner.

Really? I love the taste of salads. I always feel much better eating them too.

People act like you need to eat a head of lettuce each night. Lettuce is really worthless, by and large.

Not Romaine lettuce. Or leaf lettuce. They are the proper ones to eat. Not head lettuce. That stuff is garbage. Read This link to see the nutrients in Romaine for example:

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... ce&dbid=61

Actually, that's a great site in many respects. Browse it for a great deal of useful information.

Perseid · Post by **Perseid** » 2007-11-20 07:14am

Just to go back to the subject of alcohol and various other foods increasing the chance of cancer. Just what is that actual chance of getting any form of cancer?
By this I mean we see a lot of things in the papers concerning different things increasing the chance of getting colon cancer or breast cancer or some other cancer by x% but if the odds are small to begin with it won't make that much of a difference in the long run.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2007-11-20 08:33am

Mr CorSec wrote:Just to go back to the subject of alcohol and various other foods increasing the chance of cancer. Just what is that actual chance of getting any form of cancer?

If you live long enough you'll probably have some form of cancer in you when you die. Particularly men - past 80, virtually all men have prostate cancer but it's so slow growing they'll usually die of something else first.

You can make a general statement like "X of Y people will have cancer sometime during their lifetime" but it doesn't really tell you a whole lot about YOUR chances of getting cancer. A lot depends on genes, and a lot depends on your choices. You can do everything "right" - don't smoke, exercise, eat healthy, etc. - and still get cancer. There are people who do everything "wrong" and don't. But your odds are better if you keep yourself healthy, both for avoiding cancer and for surviving cancer if you do get it (or a lot of other diseases, for that matter)

Thunderfire · Post by **Thunderfire** » 2007-11-20 08:46am

Justforfun000 wrote: Potatoes are cheap, and even though they are vegetables, the inside of it is mostly starch. All the nutrients are focused in the skin and how many people commonly eat that?

This is an urban legend. The opposite is true - the skin contains and increased amount of the alkaloid solanin. The "Bundesforschungsanstalt für Ernährung und Lebensmittel" did a test and peeled potatoes contained up to 30 mg alkaloids / kg compared to unpeeled ones which contained up to 100 mg / kg.

Justforfun000 · Post by **Justforfun000** » 2007-11-20 05:58pm

Thunderfire Wrote:

This is an urban legend. The opposite is true - the skin contains and increased amount of the alkaloid solanin.

Ummmmm...

Q. Is it safe to eat the potato skin?
A. Absolutely! In fact, we recommend it. The skin of the potato contains the majority of the potato's fiber, and many of the nutrients are located close to the skin. Wash the potato thoroughly, cut away green discoloration and/or sprouts and enjoy your potato with the skin on.

http://www.healthypotato.com/nutrition/faq.asp

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-11-20 06:05pm

Justforfun000 wrote:
Man, fuck salads. I hate salads so much. Salads make me want to die. I almost couldn't eat my meatloaf tonight because coughing down a fucking salad almost made me lose my appetite entirely. I hate salads. But I hate salad dressing more--I eat the salads with a little bit of salsa on them, and throw some of the meat or pasta from my meal in there. It's almost tolerable when I have ravioli for dinner.
Really? I love the taste of salads. I always feel much better eating them too.

I dunno, but Flagg and I apparently react rather violently against them, despite the fact that I'd like to be able to enjoy them. Maybe there's just a segment of the population that has some sort of gag reflex to it, because eating a salad is sheer force of will. It has nothing to do with flavor, it's just difficult and makes me ill.

However, you're absolutely right--dark leafy lettuces are full of fantastic amounts of nutrients. As a bonus, they cook better in things and taste good, and you can get the Spring Greens type salad mixes that include a lot of soft, dark green lettuces. Add spinach and that's an excellent source of a variety of things. Most people don't make salads with that, and if you order it you're almost sure to get a lot of worthless iceberg head lettuce in there instead. My point was, initially, that people who complain about salads (or say they wish they liked them, or had time to make them, but don't and therefore are excused from sensible eating) over-estimate the usefulness of a salad. It'd be like someone complaining about not being able to drink enough OJ because it's expensive, when orange juice or apple juice is really not that good for you anyway.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-11-20 06:06pm

A potato is nutritionally not a vegetable, it counts as a starch. It's more akin to bread than to a tomato. That's why a 'meat and potatos' diet is really not that great for you--lots of protein and starch but missing a lot of necessary elements.

Justforfun000 · Post by **Justforfun000** » 2007-11-20 06:14pm

A potato is nutritionally not a vegetable, it counts as a starch. It's more akin to bread than to a tomato. That's why a 'meat and potatos' diet is really not that great for you--lots of protein and starch but missing a lot of necessary elements.

Not a vegetable? I've never heard that before?

In terms of nutrition, that same site says it's quite good. Look:

Potatoes contain many of the essential nutrients that the dietary guidelines recommend Americans increase in their diet. Potatoes eaten with the skin provide nearly half of the Daily Value for vitamin C and are one of the best sources of potassium and fiber. One medium-sized potato has 100 calories and provides complex carbohydrates needed to fuel our brains and bodies, giving us the energy we need for a busy lifestyle.

And from the WHfoods site that I linked earlier on:

Health Benefits

Potatoes are a very popular food source. Unfortunately, most people eat potatoes in the form of greasy French fries or potato chips, and even baked potatoes are typically loaded down with fats such as butter, sour cream, melted cheese and bacon bits. Such treatment can make even baked potatoes a potential contributor to a heart attack. But take away the extra fat and deep frying, and a baked potato is an exceptionally healthful low calorie, high fiber food that offers significant protection against cardiovascular disease and cancer.

Our food ranking system qualified potatoes as a very good source of vitamin C, a good source of vitamin B6, copper, potassium, manganese, and dietary fiber.

Potatoes also contain a variety of phytonutrients that have antioxidant activity. Among these important health-promoting compounds are carotenoids, flavonoids, and caffeic acid, as well as unique tuber storage proteins, such as patatin, which exhibit activity against free radicals.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2007-11-20 08:26pm

Justforfun000 wrote:Not a vegetable? I've never heard that before?

Potatoes are tubers:

1.Botany. a fleshy, usually oblong or rounded thickening or outgrowth, as the potato, of a subterranean stem or shoot, bearing minute scalelike leaves with buds or eyes in their axils from which new plants may arise.

And tomatoes are fruits, despite what the Supreme Court would have you believe.

Thunderfire · Post by **Thunderfire** » 2007-11-21 02:45am

Justforfun000 wrote: Q. Is it safe to eat the potato skin?
A. Absolutely! In fact, we recommend it. The skin of the potato contains the majority of the potato's fiber, and many of the nutrients are located close to the skin. Wash the potato thoroughly, cut away green discoloration and/or sprouts and enjoy your potato with the skin on.

http://www.healthypotato.com/nutrition/faq.asp

Hmm a organization of more than 6,000 potato growers and handlers across the country. I'd like to see a sturdy from a neutral source.

Justforfun000 · Post by **Justforfun000** » 2007-11-21 02:55am

Hmm a organization of more than 6,000 potato growers and handlers across the country. I'd like to see a sturdy from a neutral source.

Is it really? lol. After me saying to look for neutal sources. I was a little hasty in my search.

Well in any event, Their statement of nutritional levels of vitamins is probably accurate because it would be corroborated or challenged by other neutral organizations if they were throwing it out of nowhere.

Thunderfire · Post by **Thunderfire** » 2007-11-21 03:16am

Justforfun000 wrote:
Is it really? lol. After me saying to look for neutal sources. I was a little hasty in my search.

Well in any event, Their statement of nutritional levels of vitamins is probably accurate because it would be corroborated or challenged by other neutral organizations if they were throwing it out of nowhere.

It should accurate - even your source says the nutrients are close to the skin and not in the skin.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2007-11-21 04:46am

IF you slice a potato in half and look closely at it, you'll find that between the skin and inner bulk of the potato is a thin margin of a very slightly different color (you see this on some potato chips, too, sometimes). THAT's where the bulk of the vitamins, etc. is. There is a tendency, when peeling potatoes, to remove that margin, hence, the meme it's healthier to eat them with the skin on. It's not the skin, it's the stuff just under the skin. If you can get the skin off but leave that margin of good stuff you're just as well off. The problem with the skins being that that is where pesticides tend to be, and dirt and worm poop and possibly that green business which isn't good for you to be eating.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-11-21 05:07am

Broomstick wrote:IF you slice a potato in half and look closely at it, you'll find that between the skin and inner bulk of the potato is a thin margin of a very slightly different color (you see this on some potato chips, too, sometimes). THAT's where the bulk of the vitamins, etc. is. There is a tendency, when peeling potatoes, to remove that margin, hence, the meme it's healthier to eat them with the skin on. It's not the skin, it's the stuff just under the skin. If you can get the skin off but leave that margin of good stuff you're just as well off. The problem with the skins being that that is where pesticides tend to be, and dirt and worm poop and possibly that green business which isn't good for you to be eating.

There is a solution to that:

Skin-baked potatoes! Delicious and healthy!

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-11-21 07:39am

Covenant wrote:
Justforfun000 wrote:
Man, fuck salads. I hate salads so much. Salads make me want to die. I almost couldn't eat my meatloaf tonight because coughing down a fucking salad almost made me lose my appetite entirely. I hate salads. But I hate salad dressing more--I eat the salads with a little bit of salsa on them, and throw some of the meat or pasta from my meal in there. It's almost tolerable when I have ravioli for dinner.
Really? I love the taste of salads. I always feel much better eating them too.
I dunno, but Flagg and I apparently react rather violently against them, despite the fact that I'd like to be able to enjoy them. Maybe there's just a segment of the population that has some sort of gag reflex to it, because eating a salad is sheer force of will. It has nothing to do with flavor, it's just difficult and makes me ill.

Well, I can thank my grandmother (may she rot in hell, not that there is one), who used to force feed me salad and other foods that I now cannot eat when I was a toddler. Ranges from mayonaise and mustard, to tomatoes and cabbage. Onions are just plain toxic to the meales on my fathers side of the family, so my reacting to them as if they're battery acid is just heriditary.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2007-11-24 12:41am

Flagg wrote:Man, I'm sick of people bitching about salad. Salad is awesome. You can eat a fuckton of it and still lose weight. I'd kill to be able to eat salad. Unfortunately I gag on that shit like it's poison.

I wasn't sure if that was serious or some kind of satire... but I guess from your grandmother post, that you are serious.

I gotta say that kinda confuses me. The guy who loves salad, yet it makes him gag....

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-11-24 01:43am

Death from the Sea wrote:
Flagg wrote:Man, I'm sick of people bitching about salad. Salad is awesome. You can eat a fuckton of it and still lose weight. I'd kill to be able to eat salad. Unfortunately I gag on that shit like it's poison.
I wasn't sure if that was serious or some kind of satire... but I guess from your grandmother post, that you are serious.

I gotta say that kinda confuses me. The guy who loves salad, yet it makes him gag....

I don't love it, but I'd eat it if I could.