8-year-old charged with rape, kidnap

mr friendly guy · Post by **mr friendly guy** » 2007-11-20 04:00am

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/11/ ... 24553.html

8-year-old charged with rape, kidnap

November 20, 2007 - 10:11AM

Three boys aged between eight and nine were being held on Monday in a detention centre in the US state of Georgia on charges of kidnapping and raping an 11-year-old girl in the woods near a suburban apartment complex, officials said.

The alleged attack happened on Thursday and the girl's mother reported it to authorities yesterday, Acworth police Captain Wayne Dennard said.

"The victim said they were playing outdoors and the girl was forced into a wooded area where she was sexually assaulted, where one of the boys raped her," Dennard told The Associated Press.

The three boys - an eight-year-old and two nine-year-olds - were charged with rape, kidnapping, false imprisonment and sexual assault, Dennard said. They were due in juvenile court this afternoon. Their names were being withheld because of their age.

Dennard would not comment further.

The girl's mother told local TV station, WXIA-TV, that her daughter had played safely with the boys in the past.

However, the girl's mother reportedly said that on Thursday the boys had dragged the girl down a path into a wooded area.

She told the WXIA-TV one of the boys sexually assaulted her daughter as other two threatened her with a rock.

The girl had been too afraid to tell her of the attack until Saturday, she said.

"How can an 8- or 9-year old think of doing something like this to a little girl?" the girl's mother reportedly told WXIA-TV.

"I mean, how do they know what to do at that age?" she asked.

The father of one of the two 8-year-old boys told a local reporter his son said the incident had been consensual.

The boy's father said the girl had made the accusation only after her parents found out she had had sex.

"There was no violence involved," LeBlanc told the Associated Press.

"This is a clear case of a girl who didn't want to get in trouble with her parents."

Prosecutors had not received the case report from police, nor had they decided whether to try the suspects as adults.

Acworth, 48 kilometres north-west of Atlanta along the shores of Lake Allatoona, is a town of about 17,000.

"This wouldn't be normal anywhere, but especially not Acworth," Dennard said.

AP

WTF?

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2007-11-20 04:33am

"How can an 8- or 9-year old think of doing something like this to a little girl?" the girl's mother reportedly told WXIA-TV.

"I mean, how do they know what to do at that age?" she asked.

Indeed.

"This is a clear case of a girl who didn't want to get in trouble with her parents."

Bullshit, asshole.
Just how in the fuck (pardon the pun) would an eleven year old girl be able to give legal consent to sex???

Excepting the ages of the defendants, this is the same defense pedophiles (she was asking for it) give.

I don't have children, but frankly if my 8 year old son said he had sex with a 11 year old girl, I'd be wondering just where I'd failed as a parent, not trying to pass blame onto the victim.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-11-20 04:34am

Damn. This is all kinds of fucked up. I just hope all the kids involved get some fucking help and the 2 boys don't grow up to be sociopaths and sexual predators.

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2007-11-20 04:36am

Bullshit, asshole.
Just how in the fuck (pardon the pun) would an eleven year old girl be able to give legal consent to sex???

Excepting the ages of the defendants, this is the same defense pedophiles (she was asking for it) give.

That's the same defense any rapist gives, the age of the defendant/attacker is irrelevent.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-11-20 04:38am

Zac Naloen wrote:
Bullshit, asshole.
Just how in the fuck (pardon the pun) would an eleven year old girl be able to give legal consent to sex???

Excepting the ages of the defendants, this is the same defense pedophiles (she was asking for it) give.
That's the same defense any rapist gives, the age of the defendant/attacker is irrelevent.

Yeah, it sounds like pure bullshit. But even assuming she did consent (which would be more believable if there had only been 1 boy involved, considering size differences for those ages), 8 and 9 year olds don't generally go around doing shit like that. I'd take a close hard look at these parents.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-11-20 04:51am

There isn't enough data in the article to make a definitive conclusion.

The possible explanations are:

1) The boys are deranged little monsters, and they did in fact rape the girl

2) The girl went with these boys to, uh, "play doctor", and then they raped her

3) There was no violence involved, and the kids simply wanted to try what they saw somewhere. They fooled around, then went home. The girl then accused the boys or raping her, because she didn't want to get in trouble (kids pull stupid stunts like that all the time)

We don't know actual sex was involved, we don't know if she really was threatened, we don't know shit.

Now, the situation is creepy as hell, but how about monitoring the case and seeing what the evidence is before we jump to conclusions about the boys being sexual predators, okay?

ray245 · Post by **ray245** » 2007-11-20 05:01am

Wait...was it confimed that sexual acts did occur?

I find it hard to believe that 8 years old boys would try and rape a girl older than them in the first place.

Is it possible that the girl ask them to do it in the first place instead? Mainly because puberty starts earlier for girls, and that girl would try to 'entice' the boys to do that, only to cover it up with rape later.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-11-20 05:02am

PeZook wrote:There isn't enough data in the article to make a definitive conclusion.

The possible explanations are:

1) The boys are deranged little monsters, and they did in fact rape the girl

2) The girl went with these boys to, uh, "play doctor", and then they raped her

3) There was no violence involved, and the kids simply wanted to try what they saw somewhere. They fooled around, then went home. The girl then accused the boys or raping her, because she didn't want to get in trouble (kids pull stupid stunts like that all the time)

We don't know actual sex was involved, we don't know if she really was threatened, we don't know shit.

Now, the situation is creepy as hell, but how about monitoring the case and seeing what the evidence is before we jump to conclusions about the boys being sexual predators, okay?

Or we can make a judgement based on the article and you can go fuck yourself with a chainsaw.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-11-20 05:05am

Flagg wrote: Or we can make a judgement based on the article and you can go fuck yourself with a chainsaw.

The police haven't even released the case report to the prosecutor. The article only gives statements from both parents, the fact the boys are being accused of raping the girl, and nothing more.

How can you determine what really happened by reading that? Gut feeling?

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-11-20 05:34am

PeZook wrote:
Flagg wrote: Or we can make a judgement based on the article and you can go fuck yourself with a chainsaw.
The police haven't even released the case report to the prosecutor. The article only gives statements from both parents, the fact the boys are being accused of raping the girl, and nothing more.

How can you determine what really happened by reading that? Gut feeling?

Well, the police have enough evidence for an arrest warrant and the defense sounds like bullshit. I'll assume that the police are correct for the time-being. If something comes along that casts doubt, then I'll gladly change my opinion on the matter.

Now, I see a chainsaw over there that wants to do some seriously deep dicking with your ass...

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-11-20 05:44am

Flagg wrote: Well, the police have enough evidence for an arrest warrant and the defense sounds like bullshit. I'll assume that the police are correct for the time-being. If something comes along that casts doubt, then I'll gladly change my opinion on the matter.

Dude, there is such a concept as "Innocent untill proven guilty", you know? It's one thing when the case is obvious from the get-go, but this one isn't.

Furthermore, the defence isn't bullshit when you consider that we're dealing with 8 to 11 year olds here. Kids at that age do a lot of stupid shit, are starting to get interested in sexual matters, are impressionable, and have a tendency to invent all sorts of fantasy stories to cover up their own stupid fuckups. Your concern would be valid for an adult, not for a small kid.

If the boys did indeed rape that girl, there will be hard evidence that will be obvious, if only from medical examinations. Then we can proceed with the outrage and cause-seeking.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2007-11-20 05:47am

You know flagg, Pezook has offered a wide spectrum of options based on the scant evidence that the article gives us, you have offered us histrionics. Maybe you ought to back off, because last time I checked, the board has at least one topic on the N&P section about police failing miserably at their duties. So believing them seems to be a pretty bad position as well.

Frankly, sexual assault involving minors is a much more complex situation than your oversimplified rants seem to make it. We are dealing with both assailants and victims who have little idea of the significance of their actions, have poorly developed senses of consequence, and a capacity for exaggeration of both action and words that muddies the situation. The concept of rape in the adult sense is quite beyond them, making it hard to determine motive, if a real crime even did occur and this isn't another pedophile scare article in new clothing. It could very well be real, the result of unbelievably poor parenting, or it could be incompetent Georgian rednecks who are made that their kids played a game of doctor and react like incompetent rednecks.

And before your childish comeback, I like it deep, hard and fast Flagg, so see if you are man enough to give it back.

Johonebesus · Post by **Johonebesus** » 2007-11-20 05:51am

Regardless of the guilt of the boys, the fact that the prosecutor is even considering charging them as adults seems royally screwed.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2007-11-20 08:54am

PeZook has a point, the article really doesn't say very much about what happened.

However, forensically, it should be simple to figure out what sort of thing did happen.

For instance, if the boys did drag or force her into a wooded area, she should be somewhat battered if it was a real wooded area (though with reporting, your mileage my vary in that a "wooded area" could mean a field with some trees in it). Cuts and scrapes and such. You really can't avoid injuries like that, given that children get them somewhat naturally walking through wooded areas, in such an even,t a conspicuous absence would indicate that she at least WALKED there of her own free will.

This is one of those cases were the devil is very much in the details and we don't have any details except that apparantly sex happened (voluntary or not), the boys were charged (they'd have to be if accused, regardless of what happened), and that one of their fathers made the stupid "She wanted it!" claim that every rapist or family member of one since Tarquin of Rome has made. There isn't alot to squeeze the truth out of this.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-11-20 09:07am

Gil Hamilton wrote: However, forensically, it should be simple to figure out what sort of thing did happen.

That's exactly my point ; There will be hard evidence of a rape and kidnapping, so we don't need to rely on witness testimony (from people who aren't really witnesses, anyway) and interrogations of children.

You know, this whole thing makes me think: In my elementary school days, it was common for kids about that age (me included, what can I say?) to sneak out to the forest near the school with girls, and flash each other. I wonder if such behavior would spark righteous outrage today?

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2007-11-20 09:25am

Well, we didn't have a forest near my elementary school, but alot of stuff that happened on the playground today would spark righteous outrage. Then again, also when I was in elementary school, kids actually went trick or treating after dark on Halloween, playgrounds were cement, and we got to climb the rope in gym class.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2007-11-20 09:27am

Whenever I see these news stories about rape or sexual assault with minors of this age (sad to say this comes up often enough) I have to think back to when I was 8 or 9 and I don't even think I was physically capable of raping anyone let alone thinking about it. I mean how does a child that age maintain an erection and such to get it going and how do they know what hole to put it in if they haven't seen a naked girl before?

This would seem to indicate to me that perhaps these kids may have been sexually abused. As I understand it young victims of sexual abuse get very savvy when it comes to sex - unfortunately they have the experience. This may be a sad case of the kids acting out something that happened to them.

This is by no means an attempt to portray them in a sympathetic light but more of an attempt to understand where this behavior comes from. I don't believe in the "They're just monsters" or the ever popular "Some kids are just born bad." Something happened to get them in this mindset.

ray245 · Post by **ray245** » 2007-11-20 10:13am

Stravo wrote:Whenever I see these news stories about rape or sexual assault with minors of this age (sad to say this comes up often enough) I have to think back to when I was 8 or 9 and I don't even think I was physically capable of raping anyone let alone thinking about it. I mean how does a child that age maintain an erection and such to get it going and how do they know what hole to put it in if they haven't seen a naked girl before?

This would seem to indicate to me that perhaps these kids may have been sexually abused. As I understand it young victims of sexual abuse get very savvy when it comes to sex - unfortunately they have the experience. This may be a sad case of the kids acting out something that happened to them.

This is by no means an attempt to portray them in a sympathetic light but more of an attempt to understand where this behavior comes from. I don't believe in the "They're just monsters" or the ever popular "Some kids are just born bad." Something happened to get them in this mindset.

The only thing I know is that kids in this generation are maturing sexually alot faster than their parents.

I think there is research that shows puberty age is getting lower and lower but...a 8 year old being able to even rape someone? I think that is too much.

And I thought a 9 year old girl getting pregeant is the most shocking stuff I've read.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-11-20 10:19am

ray245 wrote: The only thing I know is that kids in this generation are maturing sexually alot faster than their parents.

I think there is research that shows puberty age is getting lower and lower but...a 8 year old being able to even rape someone? I think that is too much.

That's...interesting. I'd like to see those studies, if you have them on hand.

As for an 8 year old being able to rape someone...take note, we don't know what exactly happened. It's unlikely this was full-on intercourse, and it's always possible to rape someone with an inanimate object.

I'm hoping, however, that this turns out to be a case of overreaction. Otherwise, as Stravo noted, some horrible conclusions start appearing.

DavidEC · Post by **DavidEC** » 2007-11-20 11:24am

PeZook wrote:That's...interesting. I'd like to see those studies, if you have them on hand.

If you're referring to the 'maturing faster' comment I suspect he's indulging in Good Ol' Days syndrome.

Stravo wrote:This is by no means an attempt to portray them in a sympathetic light but more of an attempt to understand where this behavior comes from. I don't believe in the "They're just monsters" or the ever popular "Some kids are just born bad." Something happened to get them in this mindset.

I agree. The sooner we know that they're human beings the sooner we understand that it can and will happen again without understanding vigilance. Same goes for people who dismiss the Hitlers of the world as simply monsters.

SilverWingedSeraph · Post by **SilverWingedSeraph** » 2007-11-20 11:31am

DavidEC wrote:If you're referring to the 'maturing faster' comment I suspect he's indulging in Good Ol' Days syndrome.

I don't believe he is. I skimmed over something once, about how kids are reaching puberty at younger ages than they used to. I have no idea how accurate or factual these claims are, and I'm not even sure where to look to find the source, but I do remember reading something to that effect. Perhaps that's what ray is refering to.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2007-11-20 11:40am

DavidEC wrote:
PeZook wrote:That's...interesting. I'd like to see those studies, if you have them on hand.
If you're referring to the 'maturing faster' comment I suspect he's indulging in Good Ol' Days syndrome.

I'm damn sure I read somewhere that there is a strong relationship between the high avaliablility of food and early sexual maturity.

A quick search showed a few studies documenting the effects of avaliablility of food on other animal species, so it doesnt appear that far fetched.

Teebs · Post by **Teebs** » 2007-11-20 11:55am

I'm slightly surprised they can even be charged with anything. I think that you can't even be charged with a crime in the UK until you're 10, isn't there anything similar in the US?

DavidEC · Post by **DavidEC** » 2007-11-20 11:59am

Hmmm depends how good their methodology was. Food availability can't be that much different now for middle-class and above families compared to 1950s or 60s, especially in the United States. Obviously food availability has an influence in height, strength, intelligence and such physical development but puberty is hormonal, so would extra food promote hormone production?

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2007-11-20 12:09pm

Stravo wrote:Whenever I see these news stories about rape or sexual assault with minors of this age (sad to say this comes up often enough) I have to think back to when I was 8 or 9 and I don't even think I was physically capable of raping anyone let alone thinking about it. I mean how does a child that age maintain an erection and such to get it going and how do they know what hole to put it in if they haven't seen a naked girl before?

This occurred to me as well. I don't remember even being able to get a boner until I was like 11 or 12, let alone one that was good for anything.