8-year-old charged with rape, kidnap

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2007-11-20 12:42pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:This occurred to me as well. I don't remember even being able to get a boner until I was like 11 or 12, let alone one that was good for anything.

Not to be sadly morbid, but they could have penetrated her with a foreign object.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-11-20 12:47pm

Or she could be pissed off at them for something and trying to get them all in trouble with a sexual assault accusation. Kids that age are more than capable of making up false accusations in order to get others in trouble over some silly social argument.

Until we hear about physical evidence of sexual assault, it would be pretty hard to conclude that the boys should be found guilty.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2007-11-20 01:17pm

DavidEC wrote:Hmmm depends how good their methodology was. Food availability can't be that much different now for middle-class and above families compared to 1950s or 60s, especially in the United States. Obviously food availability has an influence in height, strength, intelligence and such physical development but puberty is hormonal, so would extra food promote hormone production?

The onset of puberty is dictated by a host of factors, but there have been cases where a child's puberty has been grossly delayed by malnutrition. Another factor that wasn't notable during the fifties and sixties is the already significant and increasing amounts of hormones in the groundwater.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-11-20 03:49pm

Darth Wong wrote:Or she could be pissed off at them for something and trying to get them all in trouble with a sexual assault accusation. Kids that age are more than capable of making up false accusations in order to get others in trouble over some silly social argument.

Until we hear about physical evidence of sexual assault, it would be pretty hard to conclude that the boys should be found guilty.

You know, I had 11 year old girls hit on me in elementary school, when I didn't even understand what they were going on about. Girls start undergoing puberty around 10, right?

In this light, it's also possible she wanted to "show them something cool" - they went into the woods, she showed them her naughty parts and all - typical "playing doctor" stuff - and when she came home, she was terrified her mom would find out and so made up the story. It is a little podunk town in the middle of nowhere, it's quite possible her mother is a religiously-minded prude.

As you said, kids her age make up all sorts of stories if they think they are about to get in trouble. Including fake bomb threats.

Of course, it is best to just wait for the case to develop, untill then this is pure speculation.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2007-11-20 04:30pm

DavidEC wrote:Hmmm depends how good their methodology was. Food availability can't be that much different now for middle-class and above families compared to 1950s or 60s, especially in the United States. Obviously food availability has an influence in height, strength, intelligence and such physical development but puberty is hormonal, so would extra food promote hormone production?

But what goes into the food has dramatically changed. High in sugars, fats, and simply too damn much calories densely packed into the stuff.

And lets not get into the effects of hormones commonly used in most food production or that some types of plastics will actually mimic hormones chemically.

Spin Echo · Post by **Spin Echo** » 2007-11-20 04:54pm

More information in the CNN article

Three boys, ages 8 and 9, were charged Monday with raping an 11-year-old girl last week, court officials and police said.

Cobb County, Georgia, District Attorney Pat Head speaks to reporters Monday outside juvenile court.

"Never in my 20-plus years of law enforcement have I conceived of something like this," Police Chief Michael Wilkie of Acworth, Georgia, told CNN.

Clad in blue jumpsuits, the two 9-year-olds and one 8-year-old appeared in court in Cobb County, north of Atlanta, on Monday afternoon and were ordered to remain in custody until a further hearing. Family members were in court for their appearance, which was closed to reporters.

Wilkie said the girl told investigators she was raped Thursday evening. She was examined by doctors after her family reported the allegation late Saturday, and investigators questioned her extensively on Sunday, he said.

The father of one of the boys told The Associated Press that no force was used against the girl, and said the allegations have been leveled because the accuser "didn't want to get in trouble with her parents." Watch chief describe parents' reactions to charges against their sons »

But Wilkie said children that young cannot legally consent to sex, "so we have to go with the charges we have."

He told the AP one of the boys was accused of threatening to hit the girl with a rock before the alleged assault.

He also said the investigation is "far from over," and investigators are looking into claims that after the alleged attack, the girl talked about it with her friends at a slumber party, the AP reported.

"The investigators who are following up on this have had a lot specialized training of forensic interviews with children," Wilkie told CNN. "We've sent them to a number of courses for this, and so we're confident that we've done that part of the investigation as best as we can. We think her story at this point is credible and that's why we went forward with the warrants."

He said investigators have lined up counseling for the girl, "and we'll follow up on this and hope that it comes to as best a resolution at the end as we can."

The girl's mother told WGCL-TV in Atlanta, "They do need to be taught a lesson because if they do it to her, they could do it to somebody else. And who knows when they become teenagers what they can do to other girls."

Cobb County District Attorney Pat Head told reporters the current rape charges against the boys would be replaced with juvenile charges, since they are too young to be prosecuted on felony charges. Under Georgia law, juvenile defendants must be at least 13 before a case can be transferred to the adult system.

The juvenile charges could bring up to five years probation and time in a state youth home if the boys are ruled delinquent.

Juvenile Court Judge A. Gregory Poole imposed a gag order on participants in the case, limiting further explanation, Head said.

Investigators specialised in working with children seem to think it's credible so far.

Big Phil · Post by **Big Phil** » 2007-11-20 05:09pm

Spin Echo wrote:Investigators specialised in working with children seem to think it's credible so far.

Where do you get that? The "investigators following up" haven't commened yet, only the police chief. The police chief thought the story was "credible," but that could mean anything from "there's conclusive physical evidence of sexual intercourse" to "three black kids violated a little white girl; call out the posse!" We simply don't know anything conclusive at the moment.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2007-11-20 05:20pm

Zac Naloen wrote:
Lonestar wrote:Excepting the ages of the defendants, this is the same defense pedophiles (she was asking for it) give.
That's the same defense any rapist gives, the age of the defendant/attacker is irrelevent.

The age of the defendant is relevant because it is only in cases of paedophilia that "she was asking for it" is automatically a bullshit excuse. In cases where both parties are able to give conscent, if "she" was really asking for it, and did not withdraw the offer, then no rape occurred.

Just how in the fuck (pardon the pun) would an eleven year old girl be able to give legal consent to sex???

There's a problem in that the accused rapists aren't able to give consent either. What the father is trying to say is that there was no coercion involved. In which case the boys are still technically guilty of statutory rape, but so is the girl. Whether the father's claim is true or not is another issue, though anything he says is suspect for obvious reasons.

Spin Echo · Post by **Spin Echo** » 2007-11-20 05:20pm

SancheztheWhaler wrote:
Spin Echo wrote:Investigators specialised in working with children seem to think it's credible so far.
Where do you get that? The "investigators following up" haven't commened yet, only the police chief. The police chief thought the story was "credible," but that could mean anything from "there's conclusive physical evidence of sexual intercourse" to "three black kids violated a little white girl; call out the posse!" We simply don't know anything conclusive at the moment.

Doh! You're right. Misparsed the sentence.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2007-11-20 05:35pm

Infants get erections; I have memories of getting boners before I was even in kindergarten.

Incredulity at an 8 year old performing sexually doesn't mean it's not possible.

However, the stench coming from this story reminds me of McMartin for some reason...

Justforfun000 · Post by **Justforfun000** » 2007-11-20 06:09pm

This occurred to me as well. I don't remember even being able to get a boner until I was like 11 or 12, let alone one that was good for anything.

Not long ago I read that male children can have actual orgasms without the refractory period, and erections can be maintained without difficulty. Undoubtedly this is something that wouldn't normally be discussed as it's generally repugnant to think of young children having sex. At least it is to me anyway.

In regards to this story, I have to admit I'm a little suspicious of the girl. An 11 year old girl is usually a fair bit more mature, as well as generally larger, then an 8 year old boy. Girls hit puberty faster as well. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if she coerced this and is now trying to cover up. We definitely need more info here, but those ages are fishy....

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2007-11-20 07:08pm

I was just about to say the same thing. A 11 year old girl probably on the onset of puberty makes her not taller than most of her 11 year old peers, but definitely a lot larger than an 8 year old. At that age, a three year difference is a large difference in size.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2007-11-20 07:12pm

I mean unless one of them was exceptionally short, or tall or combination of the both, the average difference is half a foot and that's a pretty large difference at over half a foot. Guys who are raving mad about age doesn't matter or saying that you're supporting pedophilia or rapers by even suggesting the notion that she is faking it are leaping the gun a little I think.

TithonusSyndrome · Post by **TithonusSyndrome** » 2007-11-20 08:04pm

ArmorPierce wrote:I mean unless one of them was exceptionally short, or tall or combination of the both, the average difference is half a foot and that's a pretty large difference at over half a foot. Guys who are raving mad about age doesn't matter or saying that you're supporting pedophilia or rapers by even suggesting the notion that she is faking it are leaping the gun a little I think.

To echo Chewie, I don't want to be morbid, but were there not two other 9 year olds present? I don't know if you're eligible to be charged with rape if you didn't actually impose coitus on another person or not, but they could've held her down.

Master of Cards · Post by **Master of Cards** » 2007-11-20 08:22pm

ArmorPierce wrote:I was just about to say the same thing. A 11 year old girl probably on the onset of puberty makes her not taller than most of her 11 year old peers, but definitely a lot larger than an 8 year old. At that age, a three year difference is a large difference in size.

Even at the same age (8-10) the avg girl is a lot taller then boys around her. An 11 year old should be able to run fastr then any guys then and they wwouldnt be big enough to stop her.

Erik von Nein · Post by **Erik von Nein** » 2007-11-20 08:30pm

There were also three boys, not just the one. Really, all this speculation is pointless until there's more evidence.

fusion · Post by **fusion** » 2007-11-20 11:14pm

Here is a video of the girl talking about her rape: link to cnn

Kinda surprising. Some insight into why the investigators pressed charges.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2007-11-21 12:57am

I thought that there was two, three makes it more likely to happen. She seemed oddly calm about it for a child though. I want to wait and see.

The cop after the video kind of pissed me off. He said that regardless of whether she consented or not, it don't matter they will charge them since she cannot give consent and they may be charged as adults. It looks likes the cops aren't even bothering to find out whether or not there was any consent waving it away as it didn't matter.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2007-11-21 01:16am

Legally, they have to be charged, since an 11 year old can't legally give consent assuming sex of any sort happened. However, charging them as adults, however, it bullshit.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-11-21 01:17am

Whether she consented or not doesn't really matter under the law.

However, charging 8 and 9 year olds as adults is downright obscene. There is a reason children aren't allowed to do certain things, like drive, vote, and sign contracts. We recognize that they cannot be trusted to make decisions. That's why we have a juvenile justice system.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2007-11-21 01:20am

I wonder, if one of the boys had told his parent that a girl 3 years older than him forced him to have sex with her, would the police be charging her with rape on the grounds that the boys were too young to give consent?

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-11-21 01:20am

TithonusSyndrome wrote:
ArmorPierce wrote:I mean unless one of them was exceptionally short, or tall or combination of the both, the average difference is half a foot and that's a pretty large difference at over half a foot. Guys who are raving mad about age doesn't matter or saying that you're supporting pedophilia or rapers by even suggesting the notion that she is faking it are leaping the gun a little I think.
To echo Chewie, I don't want to be morbid, but were there not two other 9 year olds present? I don't know if you're eligible to be charged with rape if you didn't actually impose coitus on another person or not, but they could've held her down.

You can be charged with accessory to rape if you just chose to look the other way. Actually taking part in holding her down easily falls into being an accessory.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-11-21 01:20am

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I wonder, if one of the boys had told his parent that a girl 3 years older than him forced him to have sex with her, would the police be charging her with rape on the grounds that the boys were too young to give consent?

Almost certainly.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-11-21 01:25am

PeZook wrote:
Flagg wrote: Well, the police have enough evidence for an arrest warrant and the defense sounds like bullshit. I'll assume that the police are correct for the time-being. If something comes along that casts doubt, then I'll gladly change my opinion on the matter.
Dude, there is such a concept as "Innocent untill proven guilty", you know? It's one thing when the case is obvious from the get-go, but this one isn't.

Furthermore, the defence isn't bullshit when you consider that we're dealing with 8 to 11 year olds here. Kids at that age do a lot of stupid shit, are starting to get interested in sexual matters, are impressionable, and have a tendency to invent all sorts of fantasy stories to cover up their own stupid fuckups. Your concern would be valid for an adult, not for a small kid.

If the boys did indeed rape that girl, there will be hard evidence that will be obvious, if only from medical examinations. Then we can proceed with the outrage and cause-seeking.

Oh, blow it out your ass. The girl is claiming she was raped and the police have found enough evidence of it to arrest the 3 kids. My assumption of guilt is just as valid as your assumption of innocence.

And I'm not on a fucking jury. Presumption of innocence is a legal doctrine, not something everyone has to live their life by.

So I reiterate, go fuck yourself.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-11-21 01:30am

Dark Hellion wrote:You know flagg, Pezook has offered a wide spectrum of options based on the scant evidence that the article gives us, you have offered us histrionics. Maybe you ought to back off, because last time I checked, the board has at least one topic on the N&P section about police failing miserably at their duties. So believing them seems to be a pretty bad position as well.

And I'll bet there are ten times that many where the police did their jobs professionally and honestly.

And frankly, the only histrionics I've seen are you 2 dipshits with your faux outrage.

Oh how dare I assume the police know what they're doing!?

Frankly, sexual assault involving minors is a much more complex situation than your oversimplified rants seem to make it. We are dealing with both assailants and victims who have little idea of the significance of their actions, have poorly developed senses of consequence, and a capacity for exaggeration of both action and words that muddies the situation. The concept of rape in the adult sense is quite beyond them, making it hard to determine motive, if a real crime even did occur and this isn't another pedophile scare article in new clothing. It could very well be real, the result of unbelievably poor parenting, or it could be incompetent Georgian rednecks who are made that their kids played a game of doctor and react like incompetent rednecks.

And if that's the case then I'll gladly change my opinion to reflect that. I've yet to see any evidence of it, but I'm sure if you found some you'd be happy to present it, yes?

And before your childish comeback, I like it deep, hard and fast Flagg, so see if you are man enough to give it back.

I dunno, the second I get rough you'll probaly start wailing like a little kid with a skinned knee because you're a little pussy.