NFL 08 Thread

[Elfdart]

5. What the hell is wrong with SD?

The two main wideouts from the last few years, Keenan McCardell (off to D.C.) and Eric Parker (broken foot: out for the season) are gone, so defenses are loading up against Tomlinson and Gates. Rivers doesn't help by throwing without planting his feet. The offense made some progress today, though as Chris Chambers had a big game.

The defense is another matter. The two best tacklers from last year (Edwards and Godfrey) are gone and their replacements aren't really replacements. Ted Cottrell's wimpy defensive schemes are another burden, as is the fact that Jamal Williams is old and injured. remove the NT and both ILBs from any defense and a good running team will chew them up, which is what Minnesota and Jacksonville have done.

The offensive woes are still frustrating beyond reason especially since even though our record's varied wildly in the last 5 years, our offense has remained a strong point throughout until now and we arguably have the most talent on that side of the ball we've ever had! (disclaimer: in the Tomlinson era, I'll admit to being ignorant of the Don Coryell era) But pessimism aside as I said...

According to this website it's not even close. If you take the three best years from the recent era (04, 05, 06) you have 8 Pro Bowlers on offense (unless you want to pad the numbers with special teams players), with one sure Hall of Famer in Tomlinson. If you take Coryell's three best, you end up with 15 Pro Bowlers on offense (they didn't include special teams players back then), three players (Fouts, Winslow, Joiner) in the HoF, and three more who will end up in Canton some day (Washington, Wilkerson, White). However, if you take the three best years from the Sid Gillman teams (63, 64, 65), you get 21 Pro Bowlers, including two Hall of Famers (Mix and Alworth).

[Dark Flame]

My notes so far:

1. Wow, Cleveland squeaked that one out... By a lucky bounce.
2. Pittspuke lost! In my mind, it's not unreasonable to think that the Browns could be 8-2 (with wins over both Pittsburgh and Oakland) and have the command of the AFC North.
3. Patriots run up the score some more... I don't have a problem with what they do in-game, but their schedule is so ridiculously easy.
4. Glad I had that TO/ Romo hookup x4, 'cause I had both on my fantasy team.

Edit: Spelling.

[Elfdart]

We didn't get that game in my neck of the woods. For some reason, CBS wouldn't just show the last few minutes and OT, and instead had us watch Bill Cowher and Dan Marino gazing at the cameras (presumably the monitors were in that direction, too) and describing what happened. That was fucking retarded. I don't see what was so difficult about the call. The ball crossed the plane of the uprights: THREE FUCKING POINTS! The way the numbskull announcers were talking about it, if a kick should go through, bounce off the net and come back through the uprights, it wouldn't count either. Get a clue CBS, you dumb motherfuckers.

[Master of Ossus]

We didn't get that game in my neck of the woods. For some reason, CBS wouldn't just show the last few minutes and OT, and instead had us watch Bill Cowher and Dan Marino gazing at the cameras (presumably the monitors were in that direction, too) and describing what happened. That was fucking retarded. I don't see what was so difficult about the call. The ball crossed the plane of the uprights: THREE FUCKING POINTS! The way the numbskull announcers were talking about it, if a kick should go through, bounce off the net and come back through the uprights, it wouldn't count either. Get a clue CBS, you dumb motherfuckers.

Seriously, they got it right.

Also, I'm totally annoyed every time they do that thing with the guys in the booth DESCRIBING what's going on in the game. They do that every year. I have no idea why they think it's an effective or entertaining practice. Just roll some highlights of the other games, if you don't have the footage, and run the little ticker with the scores at the bottom. It would be better just to let us read about it while the talking heads dealt with something interesting.

[Qwerty 42]

There was some reference made that they were literally unable to show the game, any idea what that was about?

Also, I think Philadelphia may have a shot at New England, but very specific events need to transpire.

First, New England must elect to wear silver for the prime time game.

Then, the Eagles must elect to wear yellow.

No team has beaten the Eagles while wearing yellow since 12/28/47. In games wearing yellow since that date, Philadelphia averages 56 points per game, eclipsing New Englands 41 on the season.

New England should be cowering in fear.

[Havok]

There was some reference made that they were literally unable to show the game, any idea what that was about?

It's just a contract thing. CBS only had a morning game. If they had a double header they could have shown the OT until the second game started. If it was a local market game that didn't sell out (See Oakland) they would have showed the OT until the next closest market game started. Here in Oakland both games were shown, Oakland in the morning on CBS and SF at home on FOX.

[Chardok]

Riiiiiiicky's Baaaaaaaaaaaaack.




But fuck him, pretentious prick. He'd better per-fucking-form. He betrayed me and all the other dolFans. If he doesn't become instantly and ridiculously stellar, he'll never redeem himself. Even then, he'll be a very fast piece of meat carrying a football. Piece of crap.

[Havok]

*SIGH*

Man WTF? What. The. Fuck.
I want Hostler fired so bad, but a fourth Offensive Coordinator in 4 years isn't going to fix anything. Dilfer is not the answer. Smith isn't making any progress this year because of a combination of injuries, no confidence and learning a new OC. The line is the exact same group as last year, but they are facing "stop the run defenses" first, and with the combination of horrible play calling, KNOW that 3rd down is going to be a passing down almost every fucking time. And since Smith and Dilfer are playing so bad, kiss play action good bye, because opposing defenses aren't buying it or just aren't concerned because the Niners don't have a true #1 receiver and none playing with any kind of speed to get deep.

Gore, for the above mentioned reason, on top of injuries and the loss of his mom, is just having a terrible/mediocre season.

The defense isn't playing that bad, but I think they are really missing Lawson's speed on the outside for pass rushing and they need a true run stopping NOSE TACKLE, NOT a defensive tackle who is trying to play the position.

Special teams, AGAIN, has been the biggest bright spot, although Neadny is slowly losing range, and missed a game winner against Baltimore.

Vernon Davis is finally getting his game rolling, and Hostler is finally starting to use him.

So here is what they need to do this off season:

WIDE RECEIVER. WIDE RECEIVER!. WIDE RECEIVER!!. Draft 'em, trade for 'em, use Create a Player on Madden if they fucking have too. They NEED to get pressure off of Gore and give Smith some deep threats that he has confidence in. He has that with Battle, but he just doesn't have good speed and is much better suited trying to beat a Nickel CB or linebacker from the Slot, than a #1 or 2 CB.

NOSE TACKLE!! If they are going to insist on running the 3-4, they have to get a TRUE nose. 6'2" 350+ LBS and built like a barn. With, Steven Jackson, Edgerrin James and Shawn Alexander twice a year, they need it.

I would like them to pick up a few more CBs. Teams know that they can spread out the D and will have mismatches on the fourth and fifth receivers.
I hope they can make a play for Deangelo Hall, who I'm pretty sure is going to want out of Atlanta, but I don't know if they can, or want to, take the hit of having 2 80 million+ CBs. Although in the NFC West, and the receiver corps they play against, it would certainly be worth the money.

I am absolutely torn on the coaching staff.
I think Nolan is doing a good job. I like his attitude and still believe he is the right guy right now.

I'm pretty sure that Mike Singletary will be a head coach next year, which will be a huge loss for the line backing corp as well as Nolan.

The Defense, while they play well for Manusky, doesn't seem to apply enough pressure with their blitz packages, (This should get better with Lawson's return next year.) and I believe they will also suffer with the loss of Singletary. Manusky though is a bright spot.

Jim Hostler.
This guy, before he came to SF in 2005, was at the Kansas City Chiefs in 2000, the New Orleans Saints in 2001-02 and the New York Jets 2003-04. Not exactly the coaching tree I would want to get the second most important coach from.
The problem is, people thought that with Norv Turner at OC 2 years in a row, the Niners would make huge strides offensively and be at least a darkhorse playoff contender this year.
Then S.D. decided to fuck up TWO teams because, like a little kid, the GM didn't like Marty, so he fired a 14-2 coach that lost to the PATRIOTS (yeah, they aren't any good) in the playoffs. Let me restate that... 14 AND 2 and lost to a team that was two players away from probably going undefeated and winning a FOURTH SB in 7 years. This is a rant for another time though. The outcome? We lost our VERY good OC, and went on to a third in 3 seasons.

So now we have Hostler. The good news was that he wasn't changing the system. The bad news was that he wasn't Turner. However, the question is, will he be better next year? He hasn't shown any signs of progress so far this year. Then again, Mike McCarthy was absolute CRAP in his 1st and only year as OC here, and now he is 9-1 as a head coach and is assured a playoff spot and may even win the conference and get home field.

NEWS: Nolan says there will be NO changes on the coaching staff this year as far as anyone getting fired or demoted. Well, I guess I can stop bitching about that for a while...

[Havok]

Riiiiiiicky's Baaaaaaaaaaaaack.




But fuck him, pretentious prick. He'd better per-fucking-form. He betrayed me and all the other dolFans. If he doesn't become instantly and ridiculously stellar, he'll never redeem himself. Even then, he'll be a very fast piece of meat carrying a football. Piece of crap.

Dude are you silly? He is sooo traded.

[Elfdart]

Riiiiiiicky's Baaaaaaaaaaaaack.




But fuck him, pretentious prick. He'd better per-fucking-form. He betrayed me and all the other dolFans. If he doesn't become instantly and ridiculously stellar, he'll never redeem himself. Even then, he'll be a very fast piece of meat carrying a football. Piece of crap.

Dude are you silly? He is sooo traded.

Not until next year. This year's trading deadline is over.

[Chardok]

Riiiiiiicky's Baaaaaaaaaaaaack.




But fuck him, pretentious prick. He'd better per-fucking-form. He betrayed me and all the other dolFans. If he doesn't become instantly and ridiculously stellar, he'll never redeem himself. Even then, he'll be a very fast piece of meat carrying a football. Piece of crap.

Dude are you silly? He is sooo traded.

He's gonna start in week 12, yo.

[aerius]

He's gonna start in week 12, yo.

And Dan Marino's going to come out of retirement...

[Elfdart]

Actually, it's not that farfetched. Ronnie Brown is gone for the year, Jesse Chatman is a spare and Williams knows the offense.

[Chardok]

From USA Today

Coach Cam Cameron decided Thursday to welcome Williams back, and he'll be on the field starting with Monday's workout. His first game in nearly two years could come a week later, Nov. 26 at Pittsburgh.

"He'll be a member of this team," Cameron said. "He's a Miami Dolphin."

Again.

[Master of Ossus]

@ havokoff,

I simply don't understand your defense of Alex Smith. By your own admission, he hasn't improved this year at all. Other young QB's who are ALSO adjusting to new systems and even new TEAMS (Matt Schaub) are performing very well, and it's not like Atlanta or Houston (without Andre Johnson, as they were for much of the season) surround their QB's with weapons, either. Even Phillip Rivers, who is playing poorly in an offense with no deep threats and while adjusting to a new HC and OC, is playing on a MUCH, MUCH higher level than Alex Smith. I agree with you that Hostler should get canned, too (really not a surprise since he was only hired because the real candidates were already gone by that point), but I think that a LOT of blame needs to be put on Alex Smith, and the fact that TRENT DILFER was able to come in to the offense with NO loss of productivity should be a sign that Smith is just a bad player, $50 million+ contract and all.

[Tsyroc]

Riiiiiiicky's Baaaaaaaaaaaaack.




But fuck him, pretentious prick. He'd better per-fucking-form. He betrayed me and all the other dolFans. If he doesn't become instantly and ridiculously stellar, he'll never redeem himself. Even then, he'll be a very fast piece of meat carrying a football. Piece of crap.

He kind of sucked the last time he came back. He just didn't have the mass and strength he'd had before he "retired" to walk the Earth.

Hopefully he's in shape to play some football this time becuase I'd kind of like to see him get in a couple of good years so he won't seem like a total wash NFL wise.

[Havok]

@ havokoff,

I simply don't understand your defense of Alex Smith. By your own admission, he hasn't improved this year at all. Other young QB's who are ALSO adjusting to new systems and even new TEAMS (Matt Schaub) are performing very well, and it's not like Atlanta or Houston (without Andre Johnson, as they were for much of the season) surround their QB's with weapons, either. Even Phillip Rivers, who is playing poorly in an offense with no deep threats and while adjusting to a new HC and OC, is playing on a MUCH, MUCH higher level than Alex Smith. I agree with you that Hostler should get canned, too (really not a surprise since he was only hired because the real candidates were already gone by that point), but I think that a LOT of blame needs to be put on Alex Smith, and the fact that TRENT DILFER was able to come in to the offense with NO loss of productivity should be a sign that Smith is just a bad player, $50 million+ contract and all.

Yeah he hasn't improved. I'm not saying that he has, but you see things, bad arm strength, bad foot work etc. that I just don't see.

And Ok, Matt Schaub. Without Johnson in the line up he won 1 game. Against... *DRUMROLL* Miami. With Johnson in the line up, he has won 3. See what a good receiver does for you? Without a #1 receiver Smith won two games, Schaub won one without his #1 receiver. (He didn't play in the win against Oakland which Johnson didn't play in either)

Phillip Rivers. 10 TDs 10 Ints. 1743 YRDs. He has started and played in all 10 games and had Antonio Gates and Ladanian Tomlinson all year.

Alex Smith. 2 TDS 4 INTS 914 YRDS. He has only played in 7 of 10 games this year and one of those he threw one pass in it before he separated his shoulder along with tearing ligaments, so it's really 6 out of 10 he played in. He has had Vernon Davis and Frank Gore in all the games he has started, but we both know that they are nowhere close to the weapons of Gates and LT.

So with only playing in just over half of the games as Rivers, and with out the reigning league MVP or a multiple Pro-Bow, and All-Prol caliber tight end he has put up about half the numbers.
Also, Rivers, despite the coaching swaps this year, has been in the exact same system four four years. In fact, his new head coach is the same offensive coordinator that installed the system 4 years ago. Yes, Smith is in his second year in the same system, but it's still the 3rd system in 4 years he had to learn. Phillips has not had to cope with that.

Atlanta has a ton of weapons for Joey, or Byron. Joe Horn, Micheal Jenkins Warrick Dunn, Jerrious Norwood, Alge Crumpler, Roddy White. Their big problem is Offensive line play. Even still, Harrington has 5 TDS 5 INTS and 1735 YRDs and has played in all 10 games and started 8. So again, barley better numbers than Smith. New QB in a new system.

To expand on that... Look at Brett Farve last year compared to this year. Last year. New coaches, new system, #1 reciever and at week 11... 5-5. This year. 2nd year coaches, 2nd year in system, #1 receiver and 3 other young and solid receivers. At week 11... 9-1.

Having the same coaches in the same system year in and year out, as well as having confidence in the guy making the calls, makes a HUGE fucking difference in how a QB performs. On top of that having receivers that you have confidence in and know also makes a HUGE difference. Look at Payton Manning these last couple of games without his #1.

Look, basically my point is this. Alex Smith is smart enough to play QB. He has the physical talent to play in Norv Turner's offense, which he showed last year. He made enough progress last year to get him to a certain point and then the rug got pulled out from under him when Turner left.

This year, Gore wasn't going to sneak up on anybody, and since they didn't get him any more offensive help, it was up to him alone to make the team win. He squeaked out wins in 2 tough divisional games in which he was sacked 7 times, and then got his ass handed to him by a playoff caliber team in Pittsburgh, before he separated his throwing shoulder on the third play of the 4th game, which we now never was more serious then he was letting on. It's been a bad year all around and you shouldn't give up on the kid yet.

[Havok]

Riiiiiiicky's Baaaaaaaaaaaaack.




But fuck him, pretentious prick. He'd better per-fucking-form. He betrayed me and all the other dolFans. If he doesn't become instantly and ridiculously stellar, he'll never redeem himself. Even then, he'll be a very fast piece of meat carrying a football. Piece of crap.

He kind of sucked the last time he came back. He just didn't have the mass and strength he'd had before he "retired" to walk the Earth.

Hopefully he's in shape to play some football this time becuase I'd kind of like to see him get in a couple of good years so he won't seem like a total wash NFL wise.

He should be in ok shape. He has been playing up in Canadia.

[Elfdart]

I agree with you that Hostler should get canned, too (really not a surprise since he was only hired because the real candidates were already gone by that point), but I think that a LOT of blame needs to be put on Alex Smith, and the fact that TRENT DILFER was able to come in to the offense with NO loss of productivity should be a sign that Smith is just a bad player, $50 million+ contract and all.

Trent Dilfer didn't cause them to lose productivity because they had none to lose in the first place. Dilfer is a stiff, but he has shown that he can actually PLAY at the pro level, and he just plain sucks in that offense, too. The 49ers offense sucks so hard because of a distinct lack of talent, and not just at the quarterback position. I'm not saying they can't do better than Alex Smith, maybe they can. But their receivers are pitiful, Frank Gore is injured and Vernon Davis is a douche nozzle who should spend more time learning his assignments than running his mouth.

Do the 49ers have a dedicated QB coach on the staff?

[Havok]

Elfdart

Yes.

Frank Cignetti, Jr.

Quarterbacks; born October 4, 1965, Pittsburgh. Defensive back Indiana (Pa.) 1984-87. No pro playing experience. College coach: Pittsburgh 1989, Indiana (Pa.) 1990-98. Fresno State 2002-05, North Carolina 2006. Pro coach: Kansas City Chiefs 1999, New Orleans Saints 2000-01, joined 49ers in 2007.

Note the bold. I know you can know the position and the mechanics, but I would think that someone that actually played at the level would be ideal.

[Elfdart]

Bill Walsh, Norv Turner, Mike Martz and Mike Holmgren (the four best I've ever seen) are proof that just because you didn't play in the pros doesn't mean you can't coach up QBs.

[FSTargetDrone]

Also, I'm totally annoyed every time they do that thing with the guys in the booth DESCRIBING what's going on in the game. They do that every year. I have no idea why they think it's an effective or entertaining practice. Just roll some highlights of the other games, if you don't have the footage, and run the little ticker with the scores at the bottom. It would be better just to let us read about it while the talking heads dealt with something interesting.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, whether it's football, baseball or a rain delay during a golf tournament: "show me the field." I do not want to see the commentators in the damn booth, ever. SNF does it endlessly with Madden and Michaels and I just do not need to see that.

[Havok]

Also, I'm totally annoyed every time they do that thing with the guys in the booth DESCRIBING what's going on in the game. They do that every year. I have no idea why they think it's an effective or entertaining practice. Just roll some highlights of the other games, if you don't have the footage, and run the little ticker with the scores at the bottom. It would be better just to let us read about it while the talking heads dealt with something interesting.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, whether it's football, baseball or a rain delay during a golf tournament: "show me the field." I do not want to see the commentators in the damn booth, ever. SNF does it endlessly with Madden and Michaels and I just do not need to see that.

You wanna watch guys standing around drinking Gatoraide?

[Havok]

Bill Walsh, Norv Turner, Mike Martz and Mike Holmgren (the four best I've ever seen) are proof that just because you didn't play in the pros doesn't mean you can't coach up QBs.

Good point, and I agree, but that's four out of how many? And those guys aren't always an option... some permanently so.

[FSTargetDrone]

You wanna watch guys standing around drinking Gatoraide?

No, I'd rather watch the cheerleaders, but anything is better than endless shots of: