Stargate and Religion

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-01-16 11:55pm

I've been watching Stargate: SG1 on DVD lately and I've been wondering about it's take on gods.

In the series the Goa'uld pretend to be gods and have people worship them. Since the Goa'uld are able to do things that pretty much break the laws of physics, despite them not being the gods they claim, can they be considered gods? And does that mean that the worship of the Goa'uld is a religion, or because there is evidence of the Goa'ulds' power, is it considered as something other than a religion? If so, what would it be?

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-01-17 12:36am

You are forgeting the Asguard and the Ancients. SG-1 rules.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-01-17 12:39am

Admiral Johnason wrote:You are forgeting the Asguard and the Ancients. SG-1 rules.

The Asgard posed as gods as well. There isn't enough information that I have come across to determine how the Ancients acted.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2003-01-17 02:34am

neoolong wrote:I've been watching Stargate: SG1 on DVD lately and I've been wondering about it's take on gods.

In the series the Goa'uld pretend to be gods and have people worship them. Since the Goa'uld are able to do things that pretty much break the laws of physics, despite them not being the gods they claim, can they be considered gods? And does that mean that the worship of the Goa'uld is a religion, or because there is evidence of the Goa'ulds' power, is it considered as something other than a religion? If so, what would it be?

It's pretty clear that the SG-1 take on gods is that they're typically highly advanced aliens (typically with suspect motives) posing as such.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-01-17 02:44am

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:
neoolong wrote:I've been watching Stargate: SG1 on DVD lately and I've been wondering about it's take on gods.

In the series the Goa'uld pretend to be gods and have people worship them. Since the Goa'uld are able to do things that pretty much break the laws of physics, despite them not being the gods they claim, can they be considered gods? And does that mean that the worship of the Goa'uld is a religion, or because there is evidence of the Goa'ulds' power, is it considered as something other than a religion? If so, what would it be?
It's pretty clear that the SG-1 take on gods is that they're typically highly advanced aliens (typically with suspect motives) posing as such.

But are they still technically gods, and does the worship count as a religion?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-17 02:58am

neoolong wrote:
GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:
neoolong wrote:I've been watching Stargate: SG1 on DVD lately and I've been wondering about it's take on gods.

In the series the Goa'uld pretend to be gods and have people worship them. Since the Goa'uld are able to do things that pretty much break the laws of physics, despite them not being the gods they claim, can they be considered gods? And does that mean that the worship of the Goa'uld is a religion, or because there is evidence of the Goa'ulds' power, is it considered as something other than a religion? If so, what would it be?
It's pretty clear that the SG-1 take on gods is that they're typically highly advanced aliens (typically with suspect motives) posing as such.
But are they still technically gods, and does the worship count as a religion?

I think it would, some religion' are based off the worship of real things or people after all.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-01-17 04:47am

They do count as religions since the Goa'uld didn't start the worship they just took on the roles of deities in those religions, thus worship of Ra existed before Ra appeared in "human" form.

That being said the SG people (at least some of them) seem to still believe in the Judeo Christian God (its been hinted at a few times, they think he even helped them out once).

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-17 12:51pm

any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. the asgard and goauld et al use technology to seemingly break the laws of physics, but that merely means our laws are incomplete.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-01-18 01:54am

When SG-1 happened upon the Dark Ages-esque Christian planet, they did not speak among themselves about the falseness of the religion, like they do with the Goa'uld and Asguard. Of course, the writers wouldn't have them question Christianity because it would piss off a lot of people, but thats just how the show stands.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-01-18 02:25am

Howedar: Theres the other things like how Teal'c asks Carter if she believes in God and she responds "this isn't about me" to which he then replies "what would you feel like if someone tortured you for loving your God".

The in Red Sun its a three way tie between God, the Asgard or the SGC for who saved them.

It's clear that "God" is seperate from the other false religions on the show but I suspect thats just pandering to the masses.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-01-18 02:31am

TheDarkling wrote:Howedar: Theres the other things like how Teal'c asks Carter if she believes in God and she responds "this isn't about me" to which he then replies "what would you feel like if someone tortured you for loving your God".

The in Red Sun its a three way tie between God, the Asgard or the SGC for who saved them.

It's clear that "God" is seperate from the other false religions on the show but I suspect thats just pandering to the masses.

I think you're right.

But I would have loved it if in Season 1 when Senator Kinsey was saying that God would save them, if Jack said that on PX-1234 they found out that God was a Gou'ald and they killed him.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-01-18 02:40am

Well I found it funny in the episode Howedar mentioned (Demons) when they are discussing God and Teal'c gives a line about no Goa'uld being benevolent enough to play God - I guess he hadn't read the OT.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-01-18 03:38pm

Does a religion have to be "true" in order for it to be considered a religion?

If so, then a secular atheist would be forced to admit that religion is a meaningless term, since no religion would exist (in their opinion).

If they worship them as gods, then its a religion, even if it turns out those gods are really just "highly advanced aliens."

If a group of people existed that considered Buffalo "gods" that would be a religion. I think I see what you're trying to say.. if they claimed the Buffalo had the power of flight, and had the ability to throw planets around, you could say "ha, no they can't, your religion is proven wrong" they could just say "well, they just choose not to use their powers at this time" or "well, I didn't say ALL buffalo... maybe not those buffalo, but some buffalo has those powers, so we honor all of them" or something like that.

False or not, its a religion, because it contains belief in the supernatural and/or worship and faith in beings as divine.

I guess maybe you could argue that alone doesn't make it a religion, but what if I told you (hypothetically) that I believe ghosts exist (whether or not I have proof) and I pray to them for stuff. Would you say that is a religion for me?

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-18 03:50pm

It's definitely a religion. All religion requires (IMHO) is the worship of a superior being/beings or total devotion to an ideal (to include Taoism and traditional Buddhism as religions, for example).

As to whether the Goa'uld are gods: I don't believe the average Goa'uld would be considered a god. Even those who imitate deities I don't believe could be considered gods (from an objective sense) because they rely on technology for power. While any sufficiently advanced technology is indistuingishable from magic, the fact that it is not an innate ability and can be removed by removing technology makes them non-deities IMHO. Although that would remove Ishtar, since when she lost her jewelry...darn Babylonians ruining my theory. I'll try to think over this some more, but I'm going to a college basketball game tonight (Div II, school's 18-0).

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2003-01-18 05:12pm

neoolong wrote:I think you're right.

But I would have loved it if in Season 1 when Senator Kinsey was saying that God would save them, if Jack said that on PX-1234 they found out that God was a Gou'ald and they killed him.

Ohh, that would've RULED!

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-18 05:25pm

The Goa'ulds are not gods. There is no god but God, and He doesn't exist in this material plane of existance.

kheegster · Post by **kheegster** » 2003-01-18 06:42pm

HemlockGrey wrote: ...There is no god but God...

Or rather, La Ilaha Illa'llah..."There is no god but Allah"

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-01-18 08:29pm

HemlockGrey wrote:The Goa'ulds are not gods. There is no god but God, and He doesn't exist in this material plane of existance.

Wrong. There is no god but neoolong.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-01-19 08:09am

HemlockGrey wrote:The Goa'ulds are not gods. There is no god but God, and He doesn't exist in this material plane of existance.

Some minor improvements...
The Goa'ulds are not gods. There is no god, he doesn't exist at all.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-01-19 01:09pm

HemlockGrey wrote:The Goa'ulds are not gods. There is no god but God, and He doesn't exist in this material plane of existance.

The Goa'uld are not gods. The C'tan however...

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-01-19 07:52pm

TheDarkling wrote:Well I found it funny in the episode Howedar mentioned (Demons) when they are discussing God and Teal'c gives a line about no Goa'uld being benevolent enough to play God - I guess he hadn't read the OT.

I am certainly not going to say that the Old Testament God was a nice guy, but IIRC he was still better than most Goa'uld. He was incredibly harsh in punishment, but I don't recall him killing and torturing just for the hell of it.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2003-01-19 08:39pm

Howedar wrote:
TheDarkling wrote:Well I found it funny in the episode Howedar mentioned (Demons) when they are discussing God and Teal'c gives a line about no Goa'uld being benevolent enough to play God - I guess he hadn't read the OT.
I am certainly not going to say that the Old Testament God was a nice guy, but IIRC he was still better than most Goa'uld. He was incredibly harsh in punishment, but I don't recall him killing and torturing just for the hell of it.

...Job?

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-19 08:41pm

Eleas wrote:
Howedar wrote:
TheDarkling wrote:Well I found it funny in the episode Howedar mentioned (Demons) when they are discussing God and Teal'c gives a line about no Goa'uld being benevolent enough to play God - I guess he hadn't read the OT.
I am certainly not going to say that the Old Testament God was a nice guy, but IIRC he was still better than most Goa'uld. He was incredibly harsh in punishment, but I don't recall him killing and torturing just for the hell of it.
...Job?

The torturing in Job was carried out by Satan. I'm willing to admit that it was because of a bet God agreed to, but God restored everything taken away from Job at the end of the book.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2003-01-19 08:48pm

The Dark wrote:
Eleas wrote: ...Job?
The torturing in Job was carried out by Satan. I'm willing to admit that it was because of a bet God agreed to, but God restored everything taken away from Job at the end of the book.

...and? God agreed to this bet, knowing full well he was giving one of his chosen a one-way trip to a personal hell. Which was exactly what Job got. God may have restored everything taken away from him, but that doesn't fly as an excuse.

If I locked up my dog and starved her, I would deny her food, water and freedom. If I then released her, I would restore all these things that had been taken away from her. Would this be morally all right?

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