Systems Commonweath (Andromeda) + SGC Earth vs. the Empire

[Chevron_Seven]

The Systems Commonwealth Earth is replaced with the Earth from Stargate several years prior to the Nietzschean Rebellion. The High Guard ends up having their ships refitted with Asgard shields,sensors, and hyperdrives. In addition Earth is able to point the High Guard in the direction of previously undiscovered sources of naquadah on world they have explored before. The High Guard is able to create the catalyst to create Naquadria and has used it on several uninhabited planets. The High Guard have replaced their standard smart missile warheads that are equal to Mark IX warheads and have these missiles make up the majority of their arsenal. They maintain a stock of the standard kinetic offensive missiles for use against fighters and still carry the standard defensive missiles.

A High Guard High Endurance Research Cruiser on a scouting mission is two weeks of steady travel with Asgard hyperdrive when they discover the Star Wars Galaxy just prior to ROTJ. The HRC ends up making contact with the Rebel Alliance and after a several week long exchange of diplomats and additional scouting the Commonwealth decides to helping defeat the Empire. High Guard and civilian authorities both conclude that the Empire with their firepower and their past use of planet killing weapons is far too dangerous to allow to exist. The High Guard therefore begins to conduct raids across the Empire in conjunction with the Rebels and the two together starts to encourage systems and planets to rebel against the Empire.

The High Guard also has the Rebels through their sources warn the Empire that if they utilize planet killing weapons against Rebel Alliance planets the High Guard will respond in kind with their own WMDs.

How does the fight go?

[Molyneux]

Have we seen any real quantification of what the High Guard could do, at their peak?

[Thanas]

The High Guard lose every major battle until they pull out the nova bombs - at which time the scenario degenerates into who can nuke the other one first. The GE will of course win that since it's system can actually be defended better than the High Guard.

Seriously, the High Guard may be able to get from galaxy to galaxy within minutes but their ships are still not able to absorb a single heavy turbolaser bolt.

Unless you want this to be a scenario where the HG merge with "exciting technology X" at which point you may just as well stop since that is not a vs scenario but rather a giant sandbox.

The topic of the HG and SG-1 vs the GE has been done to death on this forum. Just make a search and you'll see.

Have we seen any real quantification of what the High Guard could do, at their peak?

At best they could deploy about 435.000 capital ships with about 17.000 XMCs (Andromeda).

Though a guri vs Rommie fight may be interesting (my money is on Rommie) this scenario has been done to death. Let it go.

[Luzifer's right hand]

Well they can't really start to destroy systems if they want to help the rebels.
They rebels would lose all support.

But I disagree that that the GE would win a "nuke others first" fight in this scenario.
Slipstream to a system and a short hyperspace leg to the local sun and a system is gone.
It's not like the SW Empire has good force projection, it can't even reach other galaxies.

[Thanas]

But I disagree that that the GE would win a "nuke others first" fight in this scenario.
Slipstream to a system and a short hyperspace leg to the local sun and a system is gone.

This of course assumes that slip routes into the galactic empire work as efficient as those well travelled ones in the Andromedaverse. When in fact untravelled slip routes can take as long as years/months. Slipstream is tied to this bizarre network of slipstream routes. The High Guard would have to explore those routes before they could launch any invasion, and we all know how dangerous even a charted route is.

Also, what is a hyperspace leg? Dromverse has nothing like that Iirc.

It's not like the SW Empire has good force projection, it can't even reach other galaxies.

All it would take are about a dozen carrack cruisers per system...heck even System Patrol boats have a fair shot against an XMC.

Besides, in a "let's nuke everything" scenario, what makes you think the empire would bother defending every system?

[Darth Ruinus]

It's not like the SW Empire has good force projection, it can't even reach other galaxies.

Uh, I thought they could reach the Rishi Maze? Those Banking Clan guys can do it, why not them?

(The Rishi Maze IS a dwarf galaxy right?)

[PREDATOR490]

The scenario here is a bit screwed up to make any sort of judgement call given how much you evidently have had the High Guard magically beefed up and mashed something from another universe in there.

The High Guard apparantly have planet destroying weaponary as do the Nietzscheans as claimed by Tyr (Mathematics of Tears). Dylan showed no surprise at this and evidently the Pax was able to use a weapon to destroy the planet sometime at the end of the war which would imply the High Guard at least had that capability in this time frame.

They could mount their nova bombs in slipstream fighters designed for suicide runs (To Loose The Fateful Lightning) and the Andromeda had an arsenal of 40 nova bombs (Under the Night). Each ship is capable of autonomy via AI and of working as a manufacturing platform for the construction of weapons and spare parts given access to the proper resources (The Knight, Death, and the Devil).

Given that I would say that the HG would more than likely win a nuke fest against the Empire via their nova bomb slip fighters. The only real issue is this tactic was used as a desperate attack and obviously wasnt duplicated by any other commanders which would indicate it is either not allowed or definetly not something they consider a valid strategy under normal conditions. Dylan's reaction against deployment of such weapons would tend to agree with this since he is the HG's "golden boy". (Under the Night, To Loose The Fateful Lightning )

Unless the Empire manages to push the High Guard to a corner I find it unlikely they would deploy such weapons against populated systems, even if they WERE the enemy. Doing so would make them no different that Kyp Durron essentially and the political backlash is going to be a real bitch when your trying to convince people your BETTER than the Empire who uses weapons to blow up worlds, who manged to blame the REBELLION for construction of the Death Star and thought Palpatine died a hero rather than the villan and was believed.

Two weeks of travel time in Asgard hyperdrives would supposedly put them closer to the galaxy than Pegasus so the chances of the Empire being able to reach back across dont seem that difficult and if that hyperspace 'barrier" does exist then one would expect it to affect the SG drives as well. If not then basically the High Guard strike me as being shafted in ship to ship combat even with the Asgard shields, Sensors and hyperdrive.

Although since your taking the SG Earth over then naturally you take over the fact that "Star Wars" exists in the world so they will have an uncanny knowledge of the SW genre depending on how accurate those movies turned out to be in relation to the actual SW universe. Watching the reactions would be something I would love to see...

[Thanas]

The problem with your scenario is that slip fighter need slipstream routes and organic pilots. And the High Guard does not have that.

One interesting thing about moving through the slipstream is that travel time between points has very little to do with the distance actually traveled. If a pilot is lucky, and the stream unfolds just right, the ship could transit between galaxies in minutes. But put an unlucky pilot at the helm and the same trip could take weeks or even months.

Luckily for the cause of interstellar commerce and communication, the more a certain path is frequently traveled, the faster, easier and more predictable the journey becomes. As a result, frequently-traveled routes between major Commonwealth worlds -- Vedra to San-Ska-Re, for example -- are safe and convenient.

Another unusual aspect of slipstream is the requirement of an organic pilot to guide a starship through the slipstream. At an intersection of pathways in slipstream space, both paths manifest the potentiality of being correct and incorrect. It's only when the pilot chooses a specific direction that this potentiality collapses and one path becomes right, and the other wrong. For reasons still not completely understood, organic beings tend to choose the correct paths, or more precisely, the very act of choosing makes the path they have chosen the correct one.

So the matter is not how the HG will build up their forces, but how:

a) they are going to get the weapons to the targets
b) they are going to find pilots for suicide runs
c) they are going to deploy the weapons against shielded planets

Unless the Empire manages to push the High Guard to a corner I find it unlikely they would deploy such weapons against populated systems, even if they WERE the enemy.

The High Guard was more than willing to use such strikes against the Nietzchean homeworld (Angel Dark Demon Bright), the Andromeda was once tasked with novabombing the Magog homeworld (The widening gyre), despite the HG having succesfully forced the Magog to make peace before (andromeda ascendant website).

Little propaganda-filled Dylan probably wouldn't, but the history of Argosy Operations suggest otherwise - remember those are the people who would use nukes for assassination attempts against a single enemy. (Unus Salus victus)

Doing so would make them no different that Kyp Durron essentially and the political backlash is going to be a real bitch when your trying to convince people your BETTER than the Empire who uses weapons to blow up worlds, who manged to blame the REBELLION for construction of the Death Star and thought Palpatine died a hero rather than the villan and was believed.

True and another point against the HG.

The problem with the HG is that they have a great WMD but with no chance of deploying it against important targets...and even then they would loose political support.

[Thanas]

Also, the manufacturing capabilities of an XMC is not indefinite - they can only make missiles iirc. Remember Andromeda had to reequip at a supply depot instead of simply rebuilding the equipment lost. (TLTFL)

[fusion]

If I understand the Nova Bomb correctly, how much damage can it really do? Isn't just simply turning off gravity for a little while as that is how it causes a star to go supernova? Also is there proof that it even works through shields?

[Steel]

If I understand the Nova Bomb correctly, how much damage can it really do? Isn't just simply turning off gravity for a little while as that is how it causes a star to go supernova? Also is there proof that it even works through shields?

How many shielded suns are there in the SW galaxy? Why would anyone ever fire one at a ship or other shelded object? They can just fire them at the sun and have the resulting supernova destroy the nearby planets and other system assets.

Although scarily i dont know if the nova bomb induced novas are actually going to be capable of getting through wars shields depending on the mechanism the bombs work on. To use an analogy, consider boliing water up a mountain. At higher altitude the reduced pressure means that the water boils at lower temperature, so sticking someones hand in the steam is less harmful than it would be at sea level. Similarly depending on the technobabble effect the nova bombs are using, combined with the ludicrous power of sw shields a nova might not be sufficient to destroy soimething like the death star or a shielded planet.

[Xon]

Tactical use of Stargate hyperdrives allow for the bypassing of solid matter.

It'ld be expensive as hell to actually make Stargate-verse hypermissiles, but technically doable.

[MJ12 Commando]

How many shielded suns are there in the SW galaxy? Why would anyone ever fire one at a ship or other shelded object? They can just fire them at the sun and have the resulting supernova destroy the nearby planets and other system assets.

Although scarily i dont know if the nova bomb induced novas are actually going to be capable of getting through wars shields depending on the mechanism the bombs work on. To use an analogy, consider boliing water up a mountain. At higher altitude the reduced pressure means that the water boils at lower temperature, so sticking someones hand in the steam is less harmful than it would be at sea level. Similarly depending on the technobabble effect the nova bombs are using, combined with the ludicrous power of sw shields a nova might not be sufficient to destroy soimething like the death star or a shielded planet.

It won't matter too much, except in the case of the death star and maybe extremely populated planets like Coruscant. Without a source of solar energy the planet's going to be pretty much an economic write-off. Now, Coruscant and the like probably generate enough waste heat that they don't need to worry about freezing to death, but most other planets will be pretty much doomed, and the logistics problems of evacuating thousands of worlds should be intriguing.

[Ghost Rider]

Yes, let's just blurt out random noise to see what stir up what.

At least last time people used goddamn fucking numbers and not just go "Teh Nova bomb winzor!!!"

Locked.