Star wars Christmas special

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2003-01-15 12:02am

Admiral Valdemar wrote:I liked the Ewok cartoon. It was like Care Bears only with animals you KNEW were going to die as soon as Sir. Newton grabbed those chunks of sizzled DS2 and brought them tumbling onto their pretty heads...

Yub-yub!

lol.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-01-15 01:34pm

I believe the Ewok films are considered part of the EU.. official, but not pure canon, like the main two trilogies and their novelisations/radio dramas.

IIRC, at least one of the Ewok adventures takes place before ROTJ (there was a question of continuity because Wicket appears to learn Basic, but then later in ROTJ he can't understand Leia. So it's theorized that the characters were speaking a language other than Basic in the tv movie and it was just being translated for the audience into English... since Basic isn't necessarily English). Keep in mind it's been years since I've seen either movie.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-01-15 06:34pm

Laird wrote:[sarcsam]Your making me tear all up![/sarcsam]

Your just mad cause you can't deny it is offical and your only arguement was"HELL NO!" so concession accepted,next.

1) Provide evidence that its official, especially since Lucas has been trying to supress it since it was first broadcast.
2) Exactly HOW does it make SW look weak?
3) How does my initial comment in this thread constitute a concession you fucking moron?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-01-15 09:33pm

Darth Wong wrote:Who cares? What difference does the Holiday Special make anyway? Since I've never seen it, does it contain anything really stupid?

http://www.lucasfan.com/swtv/index2.html

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2003-01-16 04:30am

Icehawk wrote:Speaking of the Ewok movies. Are they considered just as Canon as the Trilogy films? and if they are, are they prequals or sequals to RotJ?

I remember seeing one of them years ago where the family crashed on the planet and had to help the Ewoks and so on.

The first ewok movie came out in 1985 and the second 1 or 2 years later.
In the US it was presented as a TV film but in Europe it was in the movies.

Prequels or sequels I don't know.

I don't believe in Saxton's Endor Holocaust so it could be sequel for me...

In fact I don't really care about it. It's relation to the SW universe concerning it's content is negligible.
It's rather a fantasy movie then space-fantasy like the real SW movies. But in the fantasy category GL made a better one...Willow!

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-01-16 06:56am

Boba Fett wrote:Prequels or sequels I don't know.

I don't believe in Saxton's Endor Holocaust so it could be sequel for me...

Saying that you don't believe the Endor holocaust is like saying you believe the Earth is flat. The DS2 was 500 miles in diameter, and ejected a large amount of debris into Endor's atmosphere... and you don't think it would matter?

The only way it would work is if the Ewok movies were prequels. Remember that for the duration of the Imperials' stay, the entire planet was shielded; hence, no family spacecraft could have crashed on it.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-01-16 07:07am

Laird wrote: Some guy just wants to flame me thats his problem and to me he is some nobody "noob".

Fuck you and die, 50+ post count n00b

*takes out PPSh-41 SMG and empties it into Laird, killing him in a spray of
bloody gore*

Long live the PPSh-41!

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2003-01-16 07:11am

Crayz9000 wrote:
Boba Fett wrote:Prequels or sequels I don't know.

I don't believe in Saxton's Endor Holocaust so it could be sequel for me...
Saying that you don't believe the Endor holocaust is like saying you believe the Earth is flat. The DS2 was 500 miles in diameter, and ejected a large amount of debris into Endor's atmosphere... and you don't think it would matter?

The only way it would work is if the Ewok movies were prequels. Remember that for the duration of the Imperials' stay, the entire planet was shielded; hence, no family spacecraft could have crashed on it.

I don't think it's not matter at all.
I just don't believe that the whole population of the planet were wiped out.

...and I don't want to say anything about those fighters that he thinks saved the day by destroying debris in the athmosphere in parade formation...

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-01-16 01:27pm

Crayz9000 wrote:Saying that you don't believe the Endor holocaust is like saying you believe the Earth is flat. The DS2 was 500 miles in diameter, and ejected a large amount of debris into Endor's atmosphere... and you don't think it would matter?

The Death Star is made of biodegradable eco-friendly materials. The broken pieces cleaned neatly disintegrated before falling into the atmosphere

I don't care whether the Endor Holocaust is true or not, it sure wasn't intended by Lucas, whether he did proper research about the effects of a moon-sized station exploding in a very low orbit, chances are he assumed the thing disintegrated harmlessly in space.

THEHOOLIGANJEDI · Post by **THEHOOLIGANJEDI** » 2003-01-16 02:31pm

Alyeska wrote:Let us not forget the Ewok movies as well.

From what I read about the Ewok movies. Which were a TV mini they were pretty damn successful ratings wise and even got Emmy awards. I have seen it to say how good it was, so I don't know.

Love it or hate it, the Ewoks wasn't close to the blunder that THS was. Thank God I haven't seen it either.

THEHOOLIGANJEDI · Post by **THEHOOLIGANJEDI** » 2003-01-16 02:34pm

Durandal wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Let us not forget the Ewok movies as well.
Hey, I liked the Ewok movies.

That's agood sign. I might see it sometime then, do you recommend it?

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2003-01-16 06:29pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Laird wrote: Some guy just wants to flame me thats his problem and to me he is some nobody "noob".
Fuck you and die, 50+ post count n00b

*takes out PPSh-41 SMG and empties it into Laird, killing him in a spray of
bloody gore*

Long live the PPSh-41!

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-01-17 12:12am

Laird wrote:

Hey butthead! I like the way you didn't answer any of the three questions I posted earlier in this thread.

Does that mean I get to say, "Concession Accepted"??????Hmmm?

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2003-01-17 03:09am

Darth Servo wrote:
Laird wrote:
Hey butthead! I like the way you didn't answer any of the three questions I posted earlier in this thread.

Does that mean I get to say, "Concession Accepted"??????Hmmm?

No it just means you are below me,You have the razor wit of a dull spoon and you bore me...Give me a quote or a site that is crediable that says GL has declared the SW:HS non canon.

The burden of proof falls on you,not me.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-01-17 09:10am

Is there anything in the holiday special, ewok movies, or ewoks/droids cartoons that could be brought into evidence if it was canon? I've seen the ewok movies an cartoons but what did those things actually demonstrate that would be debated?

Also youhave toconsider, if the Ewok/Droids cartoons are counted, would we then get to bring the Star Trek animated series into question?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-01-17 09:17am

Darth Fanboy: No because Paramounts policy is clear whereas the Lucas policy (himself and his various companies) is less clear because Lucas doesn't really care (he has stomped all over it) but Lucas books etc know it makes sense (financially) to present the books as an official continuation of the SW saga.

I really don't think the HS has anything in it of debate value but at a certain point my eyes began to bleed so I may have missed something.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-01-17 07:50pm

Thank you for the info.

This topic has actually been buzzing in the back of my brain and Im going to guess maybe that the SW holiday special is probably more of a parody. If Chewbacca's woman was running around wearing a human style apron watching television and characters seemed a little too "funny" I don't see how anyone could consider it serious. That plus there's nothing debatable about it, in fact it could be a cleverly disguised superweapon meant to dishearten rebel forces into thinking their heroes were complete shitheads.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-01-18 12:04pm

[quote]1) Provide evidence that its official, especially since Lucas has been trying to supress it since it was first broadcast.
2) Exactly HOW does it make SW look weak?
[quote]

The evidence is that it was approved for production by George Lucas himself (even if he's embarrassed about it now) and carries the Star Wars name. It contains references to canon characters, and in fact, has onscreen depictions by the original actors, playing the same parts they played in the canon films. It's closer to the films in that respect than anything else in the EU (just for the sake of argument).

I have seen the Holiday Special twice, though I may have to review it again for specific points if you want to argue in more detail... however, WHAT POINTS EXACTLY in the Holiday Special do you feel are contradicted in the canon films?

If we are to treat the Holiday Special like the rest of the "quasi canon" of the EU (and I don't see any logical reason why we should not), then we can assume it is accurate, so long as it doesn't contradict higher canon (ie: the films, screenplays, novelisations of the films, and radio dramas).

One posible way to explain away the Endor Holocaust (marvelous theory though it is) would be to play up the Rebel's compassion for oppressed species and say there were rescue efforts immediately after the Death Star's destruction (after all... surely the Alliance knew the Endor Holocaust scenario was possible)... either to evacuate the Ewoks to someplace safe, or to erect a planetary shield capable of stopping the more dangerious debris and/or radiation that wasn't cleaned up in space.

The Ewok movies could indeed have happened prior to ROTJ in that the shield erected to protect the Death Star (and indeed the construction itself) may not have been in place at the time that the family's ship (a small cruiser if I'm not mistaken) crash landed on the forest moon of Endor.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-01-18 12:13pm

I think most of the opposition to the Special itself has nothing whatsoever to do with canon or verses debates, but is rather a desire to shield the Star Wars franchise from what is widely regarded as "crappy" stuff.

Ie: people dislike the Holiday Special for similar reasons they dislike Jar Jar Binks, or Jake Lloyd's acting in Episode I, or Anakin and Padme's "romance." It's an issue of style and appearance.

Sort of like how Star Trek fans react to certain things that are part of their franchises... like Voyager, Wesley Crusher, Star Trek V, etc.

The Holiday Special IMHO doesn't make Star Wars look weak, or strong, its just neutral.

All it really establishes is:

1) Luke and Han Solo met Boba Fett prior to ESB (though we know that Han met him in ANH, thanks to the Special Edition) and he was working for Vader at the time. (though the Boba Fett cartoon appears to be a program Chewie's son is watching.. perhaps meant to be something he's imaging rather than real events or history)

2) Chewbacca has a family, brief insight into Wookie religion/culture. First view of Wookie homeworld.

3) The Empire are mean and cruel, harrassing people as we'd expect them to, whilst they look for "rebels" and rebel sympathizers.

4) Bea Arthur works at the Mos Eisley cantina (or at least one of them).

5) Jefferson Starship music videos exist in the Star Wars universe.

6) Holographic men's entertainment "Fantasy" programs exist in the Star Wars universe.

7) Cooking programs exist in the Star Wars universe (along with color television, but we knew the latter from the Phantom Menace).

Shows more of Han Solo's relationship with Chewbacca and his family.

9) Princess Leia needs singing lessons.

All I can think of off hand...