Crimson Skies, what happens down the line?

[FaxModem1]

Ok, so in Crimson Skies, we get to see a splintered US and Canada with these former nations interfighting each other and North America in 1939.

So, what happens after that?

How does this affect World War II without the presence of both of these nations and past that? Would America ever reunite? Would technology advance faster because of all the constant fighting and need for new war technologies?

What would their 2007 look like?

I know it would be hard to speculate what with 70 years from that point, but I would like to see what it would be like past that point.

Your thoughts?

[andrewgpaul]

The Airman's Gazeteer gives us a snapshot of the rest of the world; The People's Collective are allied with the Soviets, Dixie is allied with the British Empire, and the ISA is allied with Nazi Germany (Luftwaffe pilots are in the country, training local aviators). If WW2 breaks out (which it may well do), I imagine the Nazis will have a better time of it. Russia is still in the middle of its civil war, so will have a much harder time blunting the German advance, and there'll be no lend-lease from the US; there'll be an ATO (American Theatre of Operation), with a rather nasty fight in the midwest. I've no idea who Texas and the Empire State will side with; the Empire state may well side with Britain (or at least, against the ISA), Dixie and Louisana (allied with France). Texas may decide to fight with the ISA, o at least, no not fight against them, to let Louisiana and Dixie weaken themselves against the ISA.

If France falls to the Germans, they may well manage to evacuate their government and plenty of military assets to Quebec or Louisiana.

Pearl Harbour won't be as much of a prize; the age of the battleship is over, anyway. The Kingdom of Hawa'ii isn't too fond of the British in any case, so the Japanese Empire may simply get on with subduing China without any interference. They may well do better against the Russians, too.

[Aaron]

So Quebec is an independent state? And France actually wants something to do with them in this universe, unlike real life where they consider them ignorant jackasses and ignore them?

[andrewgpaul]

As for faster technological advancement, at least three aircraft in the setting are based on actual Luftwaffe prototypes that never made it into production:

The Henschel Hs P.75 became the Bloodhawk

The Blohm & Voss BV P.170 became the Warhawk

The Me 239 became the Firebrand.

I think that aviation technology is a bit more advanced in the CS world

Oh, and some of my analysis is probably a bit off; this thread on The Miniatures Page covers the same question, with a bit more knowledge. Specifically, while the ISA is allied with Germany, and Dixie is allied with the British Empire, the ISA and Dixie are both allied with each other, so a conflict there might not be feasible.

[Cykeisme]

So Quebec is an independent state? And France actually wants something to do with them in this universe, unlike real life where they consider them ignorant jackasses and ignore them?

Everything is very different. There is no United States, the states are all separate sovereign entities.

Also, lighter-than-air warships and high adventure!

[Nephtys]

So Quebec is an independent state? And France actually wants something to do with them in this universe, unlike real life where they consider them ignorant jackasses and ignore them?

Everything is very different. There is no United States, the states are all separate sovereign entities.

Also, lighter-than-air warships and high adventure!

Forget flat top carriers on the seas. Lightweight ballistic armor on Zeppelins lets you have 36 plane carriers in the air! Though I don't know exactly how WW2 is going to happen with these weird events. I mean, with no unified US, Japan is free to expand as they will across their half of the Pacific, and they probably have more resources than Hawai'i or the Nation of Hollywood.

[Sea Skimmer]

So wait, they don’t have magic anti gravity technology, just really light armor that prevents zeppelins from being torn to pieces by 7.62mm gunfire? I’ll keep my floating carriers with real armor, the ability to mount massive AA batteries and 100 plane capacity thank you very much.

[andrewgpaul]

It does make it hard to conduct a carrier raid on Colorado, though

[Nephtys]

So wait, they don’t have magic anti gravity technology, just really light armor that prevents zeppelins from being torn to pieces by 7.62mm gunfire? I’ll keep my floating carriers with real armor, the ability to mount massive AA batteries and 100 plane capacity thank you very much.

B-But.. but they have Flying Torpedoes to sink Zeppelin Cruisers! Show-Stopper Crawford popping open his canopy to take shots at an opponent with a handgun! Nathan Zachary jumping out of his two-seater plane, landing on the wing of a light bomber, and using brass knuckles on the crew!

No doubt Black Swan would do something silly like fly an autogyro through a Flattop's hangar, firing explosive bullets and leaving behind her silk scarf and laughing on her way out.

[KlavoHunter]

So wait, they don’t have magic anti gravity technology, just really light armor that prevents zeppelins from being torn to pieces by 7.62mm gunfire? I’ll keep my floating carriers with real armor, the ability to mount massive AA batteries and 100 plane capacity thank you very much.

And why not use this uber-kevlar as body armor or something brilliant like that?

[Nephtys]

So wait, they don’t have magic anti gravity technology, just really light armor that prevents zeppelins from being torn to pieces by 7.62mm gunfire? I’ll keep my floating carriers with real armor, the ability to mount massive AA batteries and 100 plane capacity thank you very much.

And why not use this uber-kevlar as body armor or something brilliant like that?

Shhhhhh. And don't forget, Zeps can not only resist 7.62mm, but up to .70 Caliber AP bullets! So maybe you're better off making tanks out of fabric.

[Sea Skimmer]

Shhhhhh. And don't forget, Zeps can not only resist 7.62mm, but up to .70 Caliber AP bullets! So maybe you're better off making tanks out of fabric.

So they aren't even proof against a good 20mm cannon, already a common armament on real 1939 planes; which means they certainly wont be proof against recoilless rifles (often tested on aircraft in real life but little used) or big clusters of 70mm rockets. You would need way more armor then that for such huge slow targets to be viable against the rapid pace of aircraft improvements.

[Battlehymn Republic]

But... you can steal the Spruce Goose!

[Nephtys]

Shhhhhh. And don't forget, Zeps can not only resist 7.62mm, but up to .70 Caliber AP bullets! So maybe you're better off making tanks out of fabric.

So they aren't even proof against a good 20mm cannon, already a common armament on real 1939 planes; which means they certainly wont be proof against recoilless rifles (often tested on aircraft in real life but little used) or big clusters of 70mm rockets. You would need way more armor then that for such huge slow targets to be viable against the rapid pace of aircraft improvements.

...actually, I'm not even sure of that. Although it's game mechanics, 20cm Rockets don't do crap to most military zeps. I suppose it can't entirely be game mechanics either, since the fiction has a lot of rocket-armed planets around, and not that many dead Zeppelins. Mostly the are taken out by having engine pods shot off, or hit by multiple flying torpedoes of some unquantifiable yield.

[andrewgpaul]

Actually, there's a fair few destroyed zeps around the place; usually their defense is a decent CAP, rather than armour.

[Adrian Laguna]

So they aren't even proof against a good 20mm cannon, already a common armament on real 1939 planes; which means they certainly wont be proof against recoilless rifles (often tested on aircraft in real life but little used) or big clusters of 70mm rockets. You would need way more armor then that for such huge slow targets to be viable against the rapid pace of aircraft improvements.

Basically in the Crimson Skies universe the Zeppelin has a short run as a viable weapon of war but, if things follow logic and some semblance of realism, will eventually find themselves falling prey to heavier armed aircraft and dwindle away into uselessness.