More bullshit from Cyma

[jaeger115]

This is how the ice age could happen, well, at the moment, it's a bit vague, and I'm looking for some scientific backing, but it goes something like this.

WTF?! You pull these figures out of your ass and then claim to run to the scientific community to ask them to prove it for you? Last time I checked, you should go to the scientific community first before posting your insignificant bullshit!

[jaeger115]

Meanwhile, Cyma, Wong is a fucking engineer! What occupation do you claim to hold?

[RedImperator]

And not going to even go into his sinking continents

Why doesn't he just come out and say God did it because there is no other explaination aside from *magic fairies came down and gave Noah an Ark and flooded the land*.

That's the only way you COULD say it that wouldn't get smacked down by science, and only because it would become an unfalsifiable hypothesis. It wouldn't be scientific, but at least it would be HONEST about being unscientific.

[InnerBrat]

I've heard of palaeooceanography, but not the DSDP, and I didn't know most palaeontology is conducted in the oceans, even though I was a
dinosaur freak as a kid and still try to keep up on major events.

yes, but the major news-making events are not reflective of the majority of the work.

Think about it: -
Q. what governs where scientific research is conducted.
A. funding

Q. Where is the most funding for any science going to come from?
A. The commercial sector

Q. What is the most important commercial use for palaeontology?
A. The Oil Industry

So the ability to exploit the North Sea, and other oceans for oil is the primary determining factor for where palaeontological studies take place.
Far more is known about foramnifera and other pelagic microfossils than any dinosaur, because they yield the most profitable information.

[kheegster]

wait, water is a mirror? last time i checked it was pretty damned transparent and reflects very little of incoming light.

And in case this dumbfuck hasn't noticed...some 3/4 of our planet is already covered in water as it is...

[Lagmonster]

Cyma, kid, you be best to realize that you're participating in a virtual asskicking, with you playing the part of the ass in question. Take a clue, do some non-biased research for yourself, grow up a little. This thread is like watching a vastly comical episode of Celebrity Deathmatch:

(Watches Cyma get verbally kicked and beaten repeatedly.)
Darth Wong: Give up, yet?
Cyma: Uunnh...God in his obvious uber ability to do shit beyond your comprehension will...
(the beating recommences)
*thwap* *kick* *boot* *thud* *punt*
(Red Imperator flies in from offside)
Red Imperator: ANCIENT NINJA FIST-TO-NUTS STYLE!!!!!!!
*THWACK*

[InnerBrat]

wait, water is a mirror? last time i checked it was pretty damned transparent and reflects very little of incoming light.

The majority of the Earth's albedo is caused by clouds condensing around DMS partciles produced by microorganisms in the photic zones of the oceans. Not to mention the albedo caused by the microorganisms themsleves.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The largest wooden ships in history were built by Ming Dynasty China in the 15th century - the flagship of Admiral Zheng He's fleet for the Indian Expedition measured about 440ft long - And this is definitely the upper limit for wooden ships. Basically, non-composite (Wooden ships without metal structural reinforcement) vessels can be built to about 200 - 220 feet in the European style of shipwrighting.

The Chinese style allows for much, much larger ships of the non-composite type, easily twice the length or larger. The downside to this is a reduced structural strength. For instance, Chinese vessels of the "junk" construction style as this is sometimes referred to, no matter their size, never mounted heavy cannons because they couldn't handle the recoil from them, it would stress their frames excessively.

However, the great Chinese ships - though genuine ships in terms of design, rigging, etc - were in fact called something which translates literally as "Star Rafts", and there's a reason for that which I suspect the relevant people can figure out by now; IE, conceptually they were more like big rafts than a deep draft hull that cuts through the water.

To get one of those with a real big wooden ship, you need composite construction. I don't seem to recall God telling Noah how to forge steel reinforcing beams with a bronze-age technological base, and even then you'd still fall short of the size of the Ark by more than half.

EDIT: No, sorry, the instructions for the Ark preclude it being built like a Ming Dynasty Star Raft. And, again, no, it's still too big.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

The Ark problem always cracks me up when they say they had dinos on the same boat without having the lesser animals eaten or trampled on.

The Ark is technologically unfeasible today yet these people reckon Noah could do it with some instruction from God.

I never understoof God's motivation for flooding anyway, surely being omnipotent means the proverbial cleaning of the slate and starting a new with the click of a finger.

Indeed. This question has always troubled me as well. But it does solve the riddle of Christians' lack of creativity -- after all, they're modelled in their God's image. A flood? Come now! Why not saturate the planet with microwave radiation and cook all but 2 of each kind of animal? "Good eatin', paw! God done roasted us up a whole mess o' anny-mules!" Or why not pelt the planet with 200 ton golf balls? What was God thinking? Was he just too fucking lazy to come up with something interesting?

[Darth Servo]

Indeed. This question has always troubled me as well. But it does solve the riddle of Christians' lack of creativity -- after all, they're modelled in their God's image. A flood? Come now! Why not saturate the planet with microwave radiation and cook all but 2 of each kind of animal? "Good eatin', paw! God done roasted us up a whole mess o' anny-mules!" Or why not pelt the planet with 200 ton golf balls? What was God thinking? Was he just too fucking lazy to come up with something interesting?

Christian dogma says that without the power of God, life wouldn't exist. God once killed a man for merely touching the Ark of the Covenant. Why couldn't God just zap the people. That's what the flood was for afterall--to kill all the wicked people, right? God clearly didn't need to kill any animals at all.

[neoolong]

Indeed. This question has always troubled me as well. But it does solve the riddle of Christians' lack of creativity -- after all, they're modelled in their God's image. A flood? Come now! Why not saturate the planet with microwave radiation and cook all but 2 of each kind of animal? "Good eatin', paw! God done roasted us up a whole mess o' anny-mules!" Or why not pelt the planet with 200 ton golf balls? What was God thinking? Was he just too fucking lazy to come up with something interesting?

Christian dogma says that without the power of God, life wouldn't exist. God once killed a man for merely touching the Ark of the Covenant. Why couldn't God just zap the people. That's what the flood was for afterall--to kill all the wicked people, right? God clearly didn't need to kill any animals at all.

Unless the animals were, evil.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Or unless God is, as we have all long suspected, a sadistic motherfucker who just did it because he knew it would be fun. Ever seen a cat get wet? Now multiply that fun by untold millions of cats of all different varieties...

[Enforcer Talen]

I'm following that 'evil god' philosophy at the moment.

makes for some really dark days. . .heh.

[jaeger115]

Hey Cyma, where are you? come back here so we can all asskick and brutally ridiciule you for what you truly are: an donkeyfucking idiot!

[neoolong]

Hey Cyma, where are you? come back here so we can all asskick and brutally ridiciule you for what you truly are: an donkeyfucking idiot!

Maybe he's looking for evidence to support his case. That means he'll never come back.

[Cyma]

Please stop, you are hurting my bum

[Exonerate]

Please stop, you are hurting my bum

You havn't seen a flaming yet. I suggest you at least make an attempt to post an argument so you aren't seen as even more of an idiot.

[Frank Hipper]

"Good eatin', paw! God done roasted us up a whole mess o' anny-mules!"

And again, I soil my linens laughing at a SD.net member's witticisms. Thank you Raoul Duke Jr., you owe me dry What Would Jesus Do thong undergarments.

http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/prod.aspx?p ... st.3948982

[jaeger115]

Please stop, you are hurting my bum

Stand up and fight, then, with pure logic and hard facts instead of groveling behind your yellow-bellied pseudoscience! That bit about water=mirror was the funniest piece of shit I'd ever heard!

[Sea Skimmer]

I love the "sinking plate" idea. Somehow, the tectonic plates of the Earth are supposed to collapse downward by several kilometres, thrusting quintillions of tons of water upwards without capsizing Noah's little boat, even though we have observed that an insignificant shift in the ocean floor causes monstrous tsunamis which would shred any boat like a collection of toothpicks.

When the 500 billion tonnes rock island of La Palma gets around to collapsing, its expected to unleash 5 thousand trillion joules of energy and create a wave 900 metres high.

And he thinks something orders of magnitude more massive won't destoy a wooden vessel that couldn't stay together in the first place?

[Mr Flibble]

This is how the ice age could happen, well, at the moment, it's a bit vague, and I'm looking for some scientific backing, but it goes something like this.

Firt thing I would like to point out is that your theory relies on the assumption that we believe it raind enough water to cover the Earth, instead perhaps, a combination of flooding due to sinking plates, and rain, or something else.

However, as to how an ice age could come about..
water is reflective, in all it's forms. so, therefore, if the entire world was covered with water it would be bouncing the majority of sunlight back out into space, and since the world would be deprived of so much heat for such a long period of time, it would grradually cool down.

Water=mirror
sunlight=heat
earth covered with water= large mirror reflecting the majority of heat away from the Earth.

At the moment I'm looking for cloud and water albedo rates, and then I'm going to run some calculations to see if this theory for an ice age is possible.

I'm sorry to not have made my point clear Darth Wong, however, would you mind answering some of the questions I asked? If you don't answer them, it makes you appear like you don't know what you are talking about.

I challenge you to explain the ice cores from Antarctica, which have records of ice back to around 40, 000 years ago, well before the flood. It should also be noted that this ice is formed from compated snow, not from freezing ocean water, and so has a different composition.

I know the first thing you are going to say (if you even reply) is that the dating method for the ice cores is incorrect. So I challenge you to provide some evidence or a theory for why it is incorrect.

[RedImperator]

Please stop, you are hurting my bum

Come on, dude. Better debaters than you have gotten their assholes cored out trying to prove your side. You can't scientifically prove creation. Period. The evidence simply does not exist--couldn't exist, unless practically everything we know about geology, hydrology, meterology, astrophysics, nuclear physics, biology, archaeology (and probably a few other -ologies I'm forgetting) is wrong. The only way to make the Genesis account NOT totally contradict science is to say, "Well, after it was over, God fixed the world so it looks like it's 4.5 billion years old, even though it's not". That, if you weren't already aware, is an unfalsiable hypothesis and pisses all over the principle of parsimony, but at least it's honest about Creationism being a matter of faith, not scientific truth.

[Sir Sirius]

The only way to make the Genesis account NOT totally contradict science is to say, "Well, after it was over, God fixed the world so it looks like it's 4.5 billion years old, even though it's not".

Why would god even do this?
And if he did do it he is the biggest con-artist in history. I mean who would wan't to worship a deity that perpetrates such a massive fraud on he's favourite creations for no appereant reason?

Let's be christians!

Oh, Cyma, pull your head out from your ass and make some arquments or just admit that you are dumb even for creationst.

[RedImperator]

The only way to make the Genesis account NOT totally contradict science is to say, "Well, after it was over, God fixed the world so it looks like it's 4.5 billion years old, even though it's not".

Why would god even do this?
And if he did do it he is the biggest con-artist in history. I mean who would wan't to worship a deity that perpetrates such a massive fraud on he's favourite creations for no appereant reason?

<creationist> God works in mysterious ways. If His reasons are inscrutable, it's merely because we are not equipped to understand His power and glory. </creationist>

I'm not saying I agree with it, just that that's the only honest way to justify Genesis and science. Look, if someone wants to be a Creationist, I've got no beef with that. It's none of my concern. They can use whatever justifications they want, turn whatever theological backflips they feel they have to, if that's what makes them happy. I only get into the debate when they try to hijack science to make it seem like their position is based on anything but faith.

The dilemma that all Creationists face is that they've been born into a world that demands objective, quantifiable proof of everything. Faith anymore isn't just a matter of accepting things without proof--it's accepting that there is not and never will be proof of your beliefs. Whenever a "scientific Creationist", like Cyma, tries to convince me that science proves the Bible, I'm always tempted to accuse them of letting their faith waver, since the TRULY faithful would accept science has nothing to say about God and would believe that that doesn't matter. Scientific Creationism is a crutch for people who want to be objective but also want to live in the same small, comfortable universe their ancestors did. Unfortunately for them, it can't work that way.

[Lagmonster]

The easiest thing to do with Genesis is read up on some of the Sumerian creation myths, realize that the Bible's early stories up to the tower of Babel are basically rip-offs of stories that the nomadic early Hebrew tribes picked up while wandering around the largely foreigner-occupied late-Sumerian empire lands, and voila, you have the source of Genesis (the flood myth is almost word for word in one of the Sumerian epics).

THEN you need to read how the Sumerian priesthood essentially describes in their own words how they invented their myths to accompany their belief in gods, in order to have something to tell to the populace, on whose labour the priest caste depended in the age before kings.