Orange Order Parades in Northern Ireland

[FBHthelizardmage]

as a citzen of the united kindgom I have to say I don't surport the marchs.

frankly I think it would be a lot easier and cheeper to just give every loyalist in northern island a million quid to come and live in britain.

[Lord Pounder]

i'd hold out for 2 mill.

But serriously in that kind of situation would it not be cheaper for the British to pay for all the familys that are offended to have an all expenses trip to say Butlans. I'd be a lot cheaper in the long run as it must cost the Goverment a fortune to pay for the peace keeping operation.

[InnerBrat]

I think he was talking generally about the whole situation, not just about the marches.

[irishmick79]

Lately the GOLI are accepting re-routing. On my last parade last July 12th we decided not to walk down the Lower Ormeau road and instead diverted through the "Holy Lands" which is just off the Ormeau Road and away from the main nationalist population but still we were protested against.

Sinn Fein have publicaly admited they want to end all parades and have went as far as to try and organise protests as far afield as Canada.

What are the parades usually like? Are the marchers fairly subdued, or is other extracurricular stuff going on (like taunting ornery protetesters, fights, etc). I'm actually american, so I haven't seen any of the marches first hand, just clips of them on the news.

[Lord Pounder]

Lately the GOLI are accepting re-routing. On my last parade last July 12th we decided not to walk down the Lower Ormeau road and instead diverted through the "Holy Lands" which is just off the Ormeau Road and away from the main nationalist population but still we were protested against.

Sinn Fein have publicaly admited they want to end all parades and have went as far as to try and organise protests as far afield as Canada.

What are the parades usually like? Are the marchers fairly subdued, or is other extracurricular stuff going on (like taunting ornery protetesters, fights, etc). I'm actually american, so I haven't seen any of the marches first hand, just clips of them on the news.

On a usual parade we walk in lines of two, the officers at the front of the ranks. We al wear appropriate regalia, Our Sash/Collarete, a dark suit, White gloves, and some lodges wear bowler hats (mine didn't). We also have fully trained Marshalls who co-ordinate with the PSNI and remove trouble makers from the ranks. Marchers who break any rules are expelled from the order and are never allowed to re-join.

Every Lodge will carry a Banner or Bannerette and a Colour party. Flag Carriers march behind the Banner One one side of the Banner you will have a biblical or historical scene on the other side you have a picture depecting something important to that lodge. My old lodge had a picture of Prince William of orange on one side and a picture of the 36th Ulster Division from the 1st of July Somme Charge. The flags we carry can depend on the lodge. My old lodge was twined with a Canadian lodge so we carried a Canadan Maple Leaf, and we carried a Ulster Flag and an Orange Standard. The Orange Standard is a Orange flag with a St. Georges cross in the top left and a purple star in the botton right.

Most Lodges will be accompanied by a Loyalist band and most bands are very military in appearance, I.E tight formation flag carriers etc. But whereas in the past many bands would have carried Paramilitary flags they are not allowed anymore. The only exception if that a Band can carry a 36th Ulster Division UVF flag. The bands will be a mix of flute's and side drums with one huge bass drum.

They play a mixture of Hymns and traditional Portestant tunes. But on new orders when passing a nationalist area they are only allowed to play hymns. Any band who breaks the rules are banned from marching ever again. We do pay the bands for their services.

There are many parades in the orange calender. Our main marches are on the 1st of July and the 12th of July. But throught the year they have regular church parades where the Belfast lodges would meet for a combined church service in the Ulster Hall once a month.

If you have any more queries about the Order you can visit http://www.grandorange.org.uk/ . Some of the site is rusty as many of the Grand Imperial Lodge are technophobes and very few sites are approved. The Imperial Lodge is way behind in it's PR war with Sinn Fein and at times they can be their worst enemy.

[Perinquus]

It amazes me that in this day and age the Orangemen don't draw more condemnation for these marches. If they just wanted to march and commemorate their holiday that would be one thing, but they have always deliberately routed the things through Catholic, nationalist neighborhoods. On July 11th there are often traditional bonfires. I remember seeing a picture of one with a banner displayed next to it that said: "Kill All Taigs" (Taigs being a derogatory term for Catholic).

For those of you who may not know what this is all about, the parades commemorate the Protestant, Williamite forces of William of Orange over the primarily Catholic, Jacobite forces of the deposed James II at the Battle of the Boyne, on 1 July, 1690. The Battle of the Boyne is recalled each July in the celebrations of the Orange Order, not on the first day but on "the Twelfth", for eleven days were lost with the change from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar in 1752.

The Orangemen and their apologists can make all the excuses they want, but the fact is that they deliberately set out, every year, to march through every Catholic town, ghetto and enclave in the six counties, belting out anti-Catholic ditties the whole way (though more recently they have moderated this practice somewhat). It is a march with one real purpose: to rub the Catholics' noses in a historic defeat that put the Protestants firmly on top. Their presence is unwanted and inflammatory. They know this, of course, and that's how they want it; they'll fight tooth and nail to keep the marches from being rerouted to a less incendiary route. That tells me clearly enough that this whole thing is more about being in the Catholics' faces than it is about celebrating the Protestants' own traditions. The nearest equivalent in the U.S. would be if the Klan marched through Black neighborhoods every year.

[Lord Pounder]

It amazes me that in this day and age the Orangemen don't draw more condemnation for these marches. If they just wanted to march and commemorate their holiday that would be one thing, but they have always deliberately routed the things through Catholic, nationalist neighborhoods. On July 11th there are often traditional bonfires. I remember seeing a picture of one with a banner displayed next to it that said: "Kill All Taigs" (Taigs being a derogatory term for Catholic).

For those of you who may not know what this is all about, the parades commemorate the Protestant, Williamite forces of William of Orange over the primarily Catholic, Jacobite forces of the deposed James II at the Battle of the Boyne, on 1 July, 1690. The Battle of the Boyne is recalled each July in the celebrations of the Orange Order, not on the first day but on "the Twelfth", for eleven days were lost with the change from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar in 1752.

The Orangemen and their apologists can make all the excuses they want, but the fact is that they deliberately set out, every year, to march through every Catholic town, ghetto and enclave in the six counties, belting out anti-Catholic ditties the whole way. It is a march with one real purpose, the rub the Catholics' noses in a historic defeat that put the Protestants firmly on top in Ulster. Their presence is unwanted and inflammatory. They know this, of course, and that's how they want it; they'll fight tooth and nail to keep the marches from being rerouted to a less incendiary route. That tells me clearly enough that this whole thing is more about being in the Catholics' faces than it is about celebrating the Protestants' own traditions. The nearest equivalent in the U.S. would be if the Klan marched through Black neighborhoods every year.

Son ur american so i'll take that into account. FYI we have hundreds of parades a year and 3 of them are contentious.

Sure they may go a wee but over board on the 11th night. A lot of beer and being fucked over by your own goverment will do that to you.

Your a complete wanker for saying that the order is like the KKK and you are so wrong. Men and women of all colours have joined the Order. They are not anti-catholic the Order is Pro-Protestant. IF you could get Gerry Adams dick outta ur ass you'd see that.

By the way Prince William of Orange was actually fighting on behalf of the Pope u moron. Louis of France was trying to move the Catholic Church to France and was using King James as his puppet. William agreed to fight for the Pope on the agreement that Ireland could be multi-denominational. Get your facts right and read the history.

As for the parades through catholic areas if you did your research again you'd know that all these areas had been Protestant areas before the IRA came in and burned them out. Moron.

[Perinquus]

Son ur american so i'll take that into account. FYI we have hundreds of parades a year and 3 of them are contentious.

Then why have them in the Catholic neighborhoods?

Sure they may go a wee but over board on the 11th night. A lot of beer and being fucked over by your own goverment will do that to you.

Oh come off it. They don't want to let you march through Catholic neighborhoods and inflame tempers, and that's what you call being fucked over? You remind me of the fundies around here who cry "persecution" when people here try to keep them from cramming their religion down everyone else's throat.

Your a complete wanker for saying that the order is like the KKK and you are so wrong. Men and women of all colours have joined the Order. They are not anti-catholic the Order is Pro-Protestant. IF you could get Gerry Adams dick outta ur ass you'd see that.

Well, since I am American and Athiest, and have equal contempt for Adams and the Provos along with Paisley, the UVF and all that lot, your pathetic insult is not only an ad hominem instead of an argument, but very wide of the mark.

It's also interesting to see that when I, a man you don't know from Adam, and have no knowledge of whatsoever, disagree with you, I have Gerry Adams' dick up my ass - meaning, I suppose, that you think I must be Catholic or Nationalist, and toeing the Nationalist party line. How bigoted of you.

By the way Prince William of Orange was actually fighting on behalf of the Pope u moron. Louis of France was trying to move the Catholic Church to France and was using King James as his puppet. William agreed to fight for the Pope on the agreement that Ireland could be multi-denominational. Get your facts right and read the history.

And you know what my response is? So what? Whatever the historical origins of the the whole thing are, we are dealing with how the whole thing is perceived by people now. The Battle of the Boyne was three hundred and thirteen years ago dickhead. Whatever James' designs might have been then, they are certainly no threat to you now. It's time to get over it. I don't care much for Bill Clinton, but here's an instance where a quote of his may prove apt: "we need to move on."

And by the way, go teach your grandmother to suck eggs. I know all about the alliance between the Pope and William. Catholic Spain was one of William's main allies in the fight against the spread of French dominance. And the Pope - as temporal monarch of Italy - was a fervent supporter of William's claim to the English throne and a military ally in the fight against Louis and France. When William and his army arrived on English soil, he brought with him a Papal blessing and a banner proclaiming the support of Italy and the Pope.

But historical reality is not what's at issue. Popular perception is. Because William - a Protestant - came to England at the invitation of the Whigs to help them defeat James - a Catholic - the Williamite war has since been described as a struggle to defend the Protestant religion against the Roman Catholic Church. The conflict is viewed along sectarian lines today, rightly or wrongly. And when you people put on your little orange sashes and march through the Catholic neighborhoods it is seen, rightly or wrongly, as as nothing more than a coat-trailing exercise designed to keep the Catholic population in their place and to pound forward the message that Northern Ireland is an Orange state and that nationalists are and will always remain second class citizens in that state.

If you really want a peaceful end to The Troubles, then you ought to start by making a few compromises and cease making gestures that you know to be highly inflammatory.

As for the parades through catholic areas if you did your research again you'd know that all these areas had been Protestant areas before the IRA came in and burned them out.

Oh give me a break. The Orange order has been routing these things through the Catholic neighborhoods ever since they've been having them. But even if it were true that every Catholic neighborhood through which you march was at one time Protestant, the fact remains that the parades through there are unwanted and incendiary, and as long as you insist on routing them through there it will be seen as a provocative gesture, and will be an impediment to peace. You can be a part of the solution or a part of the problem. Guess which one you are right now?

Moron.

Bigot.

[Lord Pounder]

I'm no biggot. I just really get mad when a retard swallows the whole Sinn Fein speel hook line and sinker. You wanna know about being fucked over by your goverment how about having terrorists in goverment on the condition that they disarm. THEN they get their goverment and forget to decomission then point blank refuse to. haveing the former C&C of the IRA in charge of your childrend education. Watching as areas you live in get no goverment funding while the nationalist areas get the best of facilites for education. You have no idea what you are talking about and i challange you to come see it for your self.

As for the areas of the parade as i said before these areas were unionist protestant untill the last 30 years or so when menbers of the Irish Republican Army forced the home ownere outta their homes at gun point. And as for re-rouiting i pointed out in a post above they certain Belfast Districts are accepting re-routing but no one likes being dicateded to by thugs.

Also as i said in an above post i left the Order and the reason i left was for 2 main reason. I left coz of the minority among the ranks being anti-catholic my own grandmother was a catholic and secondly i'm not a christian and the order is a moderate christian organisation. Try and read some of my posts before you brand me.