14-Year-Old JW Refuses Blood Transfusion

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14-Year-Old JW Refuses Blood Transfusion

Post by FSTargetDrone »

Remember the Jehovah's Witness, the 22-year-old woman who died because she didn't want a blood transfusion?

Now these beliefs have claimed the life of a 14-year-old kid:
Judge Allowed 14-Year-Old Jehovah's Witness to Refuse Lifesaving Care
Leukemia Patient Dies After Refusing Blood Transfusion for Religious Reasons

Nov. 29, 2007

A Washington State judge allowed a 14-year-old Jehovah's Witness sick with leukemia to refuse a blood transfusion that could have saved his life, a decision that has stirred controversy among medical ethicists.

Dennis Lindberg of Mount Vernon, Wash., died shortly late Wednesday in his bed at Children's Hospital and Regional Medical Center, the boy's biological father, Dennis Lindberg Sr., told the Seattle Post-Intelligencer.

Earlier Wednesday, Superior Court Judge John Meyer denied a motion by the state government to force Dennis to have a blood transfusion, saying the eighth-grader knows "he's basically giving himself a death sentence," according to local media reports. Lindberg's biological parents, who do not have legal custody, also wanted to force their son to have the transfusion.

Parents and classmates of the boy, who had lived with his aunt for the past four years, reportedly cried in disbelief at the judge's decision. His biological mother fled the courtroom in tears. Dennis' aunt, Dianna Mincin, is his legal guardian and is also a Jehovah's Witness. She supported his decision to refuse treatment.

The case forced the judge into a difficult balancing act: weighing Lindberg's right to make his own decisions with the need to protect him, medical ethics experts said. Adults have the right to refuse medical treatment, and courts typically will defer to the decision of a child's parent or legal guardian, said Sharona Hoffman, co-director of the Law-Medicine Center at Case Western Reserve University School of Law.

But courts have frequently forced young children to have blood transfusions against the wishes of their Jehovah's Witness parents. Several ethicists questioned whether a 14-year-old was mature enough to decide to refuse treatment.

"The critical question is: Was this decision voluntary and knowing?" said Robyn Shapiro, director of the Center for the Study of Bioethics at the Medical College of Wisconsin.

"These issues give me pause," she said. "I'm surprised and I'm concerned" about the judge's decision.

Adolescents are more inclined to agree to things in order to appear heroic and are more susceptible to pressure, said Rosamond Rhodes, director of bioethics education at Mount Sinai School of Medicine. They also frequently change their beliefs as they get older.

"They're more likely to think in terms of black and white where adults see gray," Rhodes said.

Dr. Benjamin Wilfond, director of pediatric bioethics at Children's Hospital in Seattle, who was not involved in Lindberg's case, said Lindberg's situation was different in that he would have needed ongoing treatment and repeated transfusions. It would also be difficult to force Lindberg to cooperate with the treatment.

"It's not typical to physically restrain children of that age for medical intervention," he said.

"You balance trying to respect them and protect them," he said.

After hearing from Dennis' parents, his aunt, social workers and doctors, Judge Meyer denied the state's request, according to local news reports and people who attended the hearing.

Meyer said Dennis had been give a 70 percent chance of surviving the next five years with the transfusion. He said he believed Dennis was mature enough to make his own decisions.

"I don't believe Dennis' decision is the result of any coercion. He is mature and understands the consequences of his decision," he said, according to The Associated Press. "I don't think Dennis is trying to commit suicide. This isn't something Dennis just came upon, and he believes with the transfusion he would be unclean and unworthy."

Lindberg left school in early November when doctors diagnosed him with leukemia and began treating him with chemotherapy. They stopped the treatment, which often prevents the body from creating new red blood cells, a week ago because his blood count was too low, the Skagit Valley Herald reported.

But Lindberg refused a blood transfusion on religious grounds. Jehovah's Witnesses believe it is impure to receive a blood transfusion; they do not typically refuse other forms of medical care.

Lindberg's biological parents, Lindberg Sr. and Rachel Wherry, believed their son should have had the transfusion. Dennis' doctors supported his decision, but the state government sought a court order to force the transfusion.

Mincin did not return messages left by ABC News. She has previously declined to talk about the case.

The boy's father told the Post-Intelligencer that he decided not to appeal the court's ruling after visiting his son Wednesday. He said doctors told him Wednesday evening that the boy, unconscious since Tuesday, had likely suffered brain damage.

"Dennis was very strong in his beliefs," Patricia Shanander, a teacher and Lincoln Elementary School in Mount Vernon, where Dennis went to school, told ABC News. "He did what he felt was right."

With reporting from The Associated Press
I'm not going to badmouth the kid in question because I have no idea how much of an influence this cult-like, religiously-indoctrinated upbringing caused him to make a clearly irrational decision, so I will save my ire for the aunt.

I just don't see how this sort of thing should happen when a minor child is involved. I can't for the life of me see any fundamental difference between utilizing an "impure" blood transfusion and any other medical procedure, especially when other medical procedures are acceptable to these people.
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Post by FSTargetDrone »

I meant to add, especially when he was receiving chemotherapy, until that ended because of the low blood count.
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Post by Johonebesus »

The article pointed out that it would be quite difficult to force the treatments onto an uncooperative patient. If he decided to physically fight them over it, it might not have been feasible.

None-the-less, the judge's ruling that the boy was responsible enough to make the decision seems outrageous to me. I'm not as hostile towards organized religion as some, but cases like this make me wish we could outlaw religious indoctrination of the young.
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Post by General Zod »

Yet another point for American conservatism. It's apparently still outrageous and immoral for 14 year olds to have sex with other 14 year olds, but if they want to let themselves die because it's what the magic sky pixie tells them, it's a-okay! :roll:
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Post by Zor »

And this is why i agree with Prof. Dawkins on Religion and Children.

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Post by Flagg »

Johonebesus wrote:The article pointed out that it would be quite difficult to force the treatments onto an uncooperative patient. If he decided to physically fight them over it, it might not have been feasible.
Bullshit, give him a sedative.
None-the-less, the judge's ruling that the boy was responsible enough to make the decision seems outrageous to me. I'm not as hostile towards organized religion as some, but cases like this make me wish we could outlaw religious indoctrination of the young.
I dunno how I feel about this. I think his religious beliefs are idiotic and borderline insane. That said, I'm not in agreement with forcing a treatment on patients who are of sound mind, are capable of making their own decisions, and refuse it. The Judge concluded that the kid was able to understand the situation and make an informed decision regarding his treatment. I'll take the Judges word for it.
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Post by General Zod »

Flagg wrote: I dunno how I feel about this. I think his religious beliefs are idiotic and borderline insane. That said, I'm not in agreement with forcing a treatment on patients who are of sound mind, are capable of making their own decisions, and refuse it. The Judge concluded that the kid was able to understand the situation and make an informed decision regarding his treatment. I'll take the Judges word for it.
Since when are teenagers capable of making an informed decision on their own when it comes to medical treatments? Or just about anything for that matter?
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Post by Flagg »

General Zod wrote:
Flagg wrote: I dunno how I feel about this. I think his religious beliefs are idiotic and borderline insane. That said, I'm not in agreement with forcing a treatment on patients who are of sound mind, are capable of making their own decisions, and refuse it. The Judge concluded that the kid was able to understand the situation and make an informed decision regarding his treatment. I'll take the Judges word for it.
Since when are teenagers capable of making an informed decision on their own when it comes to medical treatments? Or just about anything for that matter?
For awhile now. Judges will often interview a kid to try and determine if they are capable of making a decision regarding certain things. It happens in custody disputes all the time with children that are younger.

IIRC, you can't force a teenager to undergo an abortion.
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Post by Justforfun000 »

General Zod Wrote:
Yet another point for American conservatism. It's apparently still outrageous and immoral for 14 year olds to have sex with other 14 year olds, but if they want to let themselves die because it's what the magic sky pixie tells them, it's a-okay!
VERY well put. Isn't that fucking ridiculous? I swear....a part of me visions cheerful strangulation of these idiot people because of their retarded beliefs.

Emotionally I want to take them and smash their head into the wall a few times while yelling "Wake the fuck UP you ignorant, delusional cretin." I just hate idiocy and this kind of case demonstrates it so well.
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Post by Stark »

Flagg, when I was a teenager i could defend my stereotypically stupid teenager attitudes eloquently. That doesn't mean that a) I wasn't full of shit like all teenagers and b) that I was able to make life-altering decisions for myself. I was just REALLY WELL SPOKEN. By your reasoning, I could have talked a judge into letting me essentially commit suicide when I couldn't even vote, buy cigarettes or drive a car because I was TOO FUCKING STUPID.
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Post by General Zod »

Flagg wrote: For awhile now. Judges will often interview a kid to try and determine if they are capable of making a decision regarding certain things. It happens in custody disputes all the time with children that are younger.

IIRC, you can't force a teenager to undergo an abortion.
Abortions are completely different kettles of fish from medical procedures where the only life at stake is the life of the kid in question. Plus the fact that it was most likely his guardian who planted the JW beliefs about blood in his mind and not the parents (note that the article said the parents were against this) should have set off alarm bells for the judge.
The Article wrote:"The critical question is: Was this decision voluntary and knowing?" said Robyn Shapiro, director of the Center for the Study of Bioethics at the Medical College of Wisconsin.
Given the nature of religious brainwashing, whether the decision was purely voluntary or an attempt to please his Aunt and keep up the religious beliefs he picked up is very questionable.
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Post by Flagg »

Stark wrote:Flagg, when I was a teenager i could defend my stereotypically stupid teenager attitudes eloquently. That doesn't mean that a) I wasn't full of shit like all teenagers and b) that I was able to make life-altering decisions for myself. I was just REALLY WELL SPOKEN. By your reasoning, I could have talked a judge into letting me essentially commit suicide when I couldn't even vote, buy cigarettes or drive a car because I was TOO FUCKING STUPID.
It's not my reasoning, it's the laws reasoning.

I think the kid's a fucking idiot. I think anyone who refuses medical treatment based on that religious garbage is welcome to fucking suicide.

But I also don't think people should be forced into medical procedures they explicitely do not want to undergo, as long as they are found to be capable of making that decision. The Judge found that the kid was.
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Is the Judge himself of the religious fucktard variety?
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Post by Flagg »

General Zod wrote:
Flagg wrote: For awhile now. Judges will often interview a kid to try and determine if they are capable of making a decision regarding certain things. It happens in custody disputes all the time with children that are younger.

IIRC, you can't force a teenager to undergo an abortion.
Abortions are completely different kettles of fish from medical procedures where the only life at stake is the life of the kid in question. Plus the fact that it was most likely his guardian who planted the JW beliefs about blood in his mind and not the parents (note that the article said the parents were against this) should have set off alarm bells for the judge.
So if the parents were the ones who religiously indoctrinated him it would be OK? I doubt you actually believe that.
The Article wrote:"The critical question is: Was this decision voluntary and knowing?" said Robyn Shapiro, director of the Center for the Study of Bioethics at the Medical College of Wisconsin.
Given the nature of religious brainwashing, whether the decision was purely voluntary or an attempt to please his Aunt and keep up the religious beliefs he picked up is very questionable.
Yeah, and apparently the Judge had that question answered to his satisfaction.
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Post by FSTargetDrone »

General Zod wrote:Given the nature of religious brainwashing, whether the decision was purely voluntary or an attempt to please his Aunt and keep up the religious beliefs he picked up is very questionable.
If I wasn't thoroughly disgusted at this so-called "guardian" and her highly questionable beliefs, I'd be interested to know how she feels now that he is dead. A child is dead for what can only be described as arbitrarily bizarre opposition to a specific kind of medical intervention that gave him better than even odds of survival. It's not as if he was suffering from inoperable brain cancer and decided against further treatment that could degrade the quality of whatever short time he might have had left in such a hypothetical situation. Blood transfusion is objectionable, because it is "unclean"? Yet it's okay to administer chemotherapy? Is that faith worth it?

But of course it must be, to someone like that.

The article doesn't go into why exactly this person was the guardian. I wonder if the parents were abusive or otherwise unsuitable, but who knows.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Flagg wrote:It's not my reasoning, it's the laws reasoning.
Does the law explicitly state that a 14 year old is too young to consent to sex, but is old enough to consent to death?
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Post by Flagg »

Darth Wong wrote:
Flagg wrote:It's not my reasoning, it's the laws reasoning.
Does the law explicitly state that a 14 year old is too young to consent to sex, but is old enough to consent to death?
Of course not, and I never said it was.
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Post by Johonebesus »

Flagg, your examples are very different situations. In a custody hearing the child's well being is paramount, and that includes emotional well-being. A judge will often ask the child which parent he would prefer to live with, and try to determine which parent is better for the kid, but he doesn't usually leave it up to the child. The child isn't deciding the issue, just giving the judge more information.

An abortion is (usually) an elective procedure. Most teenage girls are not going to die from pregnancy, so letting them carry it to term if they wish is not normally letting them commit suicide. Even dangerous pregnancies aren't always certain to end in death. In cases where the pregnancy would almost certainly be fatal, I might be willing to force a girl to abort, for the same reason as in this case.

Here we have a boy that is committing suicide. There was no maybe; he was going to die, period. The problem is the brain at fourteen still has another decade or so left before it's fully matured, and the kid is lacking real world experience and perspective. This means a teenager is less competent to make life-and-death decisions. Cognitively he may have understood that he was condemning himself to death, but teenagers aren't good at really appreciating the consequences of their actions, especially their own mortality. They are also more susceptible to group pressure, to fit in and to earn respect. Just having facts does not make a teenager responsible enough to make such a decision. Not all religious people are brainwashed, but a kid who believes in fundamentalism is. He should have had the opportunity to reach adulthood, let his brain mature and gain some experience, and decide for himself if he wants to accept a religion that says he is damned to hell because his body isn't "pure."

The law might give minors some respect and say in their fate, but I'm pretty sure that they are still considered to be of limited capacity to make decisions. If his aunt had not held the same beliefs, then I'm pretty sure the law wouldn't have stopped her from over-ruling his wishes.



And you know, lately it seems there have been a lot of folks who have defended certain arguments by saying "the judge or D.A. said so." "You must be wrong because the judge ruled that no crime occurred, or because the D.A. chose not to press charges." Judges and other officials are human, and can make mistakes, or be influenced by politics or religion or sentiment. Just because some official made a decision doesn't mean the decision was right, or even legal. This isn't aimed at Flagg specifically, because I can't remember names, but I am sick of people just falling back on this appeal to authority.
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Is the Judge himself of the religious fucktard variety?
The head of the Skagit County Superior Court? Almost certainly not; Washington State has one of the most liberal judiciaries in the entire United States. Pretty much only MA outdoes us there. Skagit County is a bit on the quaint side, but I used to go up there and shop at a local foods market a lot and I've never found it particularly intolerant. The really bad place in western Washington is up in northern Whatcom county near the Canadian border, and more in the eastern part of the counties generally, but they don't have much electoral influence.

Washington State is actually the state which has the least amount of church attendance, per-capita, of any state in the USA; we have the least religious and most agnostic or atheistic population in the whole country out of any US State, simply put.

No, this wasn't the act of religious fundamentalism, but rather of a different strain of pernicious ill that generic feel-good beliefs without grounding in science (remember, lawyers only learn precedent, and nothing else) results in--that everyone's views are equally valid and must be accepted however bizarre or odious, or obviously wrong. It's a common attitude in this state, far more common than religious fanaticism. We have advertisements on our county buses over here in Kitsap County for the state fair housing act which show an asian lesbian couple, for instance. Not precisely the sort of land which is going to hew to a Christian line, and, frankly, a conservative protestant judge would have forced the treatment in a heartbeat because they all hate JWs.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

He died for what he believed in. Good for him. Next story.
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Post by Rye »

This is helpful, I need stories like this for my documentary proposal at uni; how JW beliefs destroy homes. Killing family members is pretty high up there.
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Post by General Zod »

Flagg wrote:
But I also don't think people should be forced into medical procedures they explicitely do not want to undergo, as long as they are found to be capable of making that decision. The Judge found that the kid was.
Kids are made to do a lot of things they don't want to. Eating vegetables and doing chores come to mind. Why should medical procedures be any different when it's actually going to save their life? It's not as if this is some sort of purely cosmetic procedure or experimental surgery.
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Post by Phillip Hone »

I wonder how people would react if some one (even an adult) said that their religion required them to hang themselves, and then announced their intention to do so. I bet we would respect his choice and not interfere, after all he has freedom of religion and he understands the situation...
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Post by General Zod »

Mongoose wrote:I wonder how people would react if some one (even an adult) said that their religion required them to hang themselves, and then announced their intention to do so. I bet we would respect his choice and not interfere, after all he has freedom of religion and he understands the situation...
I don't think anyone would care very much if it were an adult and they didn't know them personally. The only reason it's in contention here at all is because the person in question is a minor.
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General Zod wrote:
Mongoose wrote:I wonder how people would react if some one (even an adult) said that their religion required them to hang themselves, and then announced their intention to do so. I bet we would respect his choice and not interfere, after all he has freedom of religion and he understands the situation...
I don't think anyone would care very much if it were an adult and they didn't know them personally. The only reason it's in contention here at all is because the person in question is a minor.
If a religion required its adherents to commit suicide -- as silly as that sounds -- then the church elders (or whoever proscribed the act) are guilty of abetting suicide. In Canada that carries a hefty jail sentence.

I've been looking into it, but haven't yet confirmed that suicide is technically against the law. I recall hearing that it was, but I can't verify it. Anyone?
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