Religion of Peace takes one prisoner for teddy heresy

[Adrian Laguna]

Corporal punishment is in fact the only form of punishment humans have yet devised which is not barbaric. It is a quick and violent reminder of disobedience which is rapidly forgotten and recovered from. Incarceration, on the other hand, deprives a human being, which is a deeply social creature, of participation in society for months or years, leaving them deeply mentally traumatized and possibly driven insane.

Fines and community service are barbaric now? There might be questions about their effectiveness as punishment, but they are punishment and they are certainly not traumatic or depriving in nature. Also, you forgot about incarceration's other nasty side-effect. It's what happens when you put a "deeply social creature" in an environment where everyone is a criminal compounded by the fact that the dumbass amateurs are in extended contact with hardened professionals. It's not pretty.

[Lord Pounder]

Whats the big deal in calling a teddy Mohammed. Christian Mexicans have been calling future car jackers after their god for years.

Joking aside this is a fucking joke. This woman came to that country to teach and help their way of life, in return she faces the very real possability of severe violence.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

False dilemma, as I've never said prison was a superior form of punishment. However I don't see how anyone can seriously say that corporal punishment is a viable practice for non violent crimes.

You're not thinking about this situation from the perspective of a religious country. In a religious country, Blasphemy is one of the most severe crimes imaginable.

This is why religious countries are bad.

However, in the Sudan, Blasphemy is not non-violent, rather, it is a violent act against God, Man, and Society.

The idea that this is a minor crime is a western one, which is entirely false. We don't have blasphemy as a crime at all, and for good reason. For those countries which do, however, blasphemy is a serious offense--it is treason against God, just as aiding the enemy in war is treason against the State. The wonder is that execution is not one of the potential punishments, not that she may be lashed for it.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Corporal punishment is in fact the only form of punishment humans have yet devised which is not barbaric. It is a quick and violent reminder of disobedience which is rapidly forgotten and recovered from. Incarceration, on the other hand, deprives a human being, which is a deeply social creature, of participation in society for months or years, leaving them deeply mentally traumatized and possibly driven insane.

Fines and community service are barbaric now? There might be questions about their effectiveness as punishment, but they are punishment and they are certainly not traumatic or depriving in nature. Also, you forgot about incarceration's other nasty side-effect. It's what happens when you put a "deeply social creature" in an environment where everyone is a criminal compounded by the fact that the dumbass amateurs are in extended contact with hardened professionals. It's not pretty.

I meant in respect to serious crimes, and blasphemy is one of the most serious crimes possible (in countries lunatic enough to make it a crime at all).

[NecronLord]

"A teddy bear in Sudanese culture is not linked with children going to bed and nursery rhymes, it is considered a wild animal and a dangerous animal and is not something good to be linked to." ~ Interview with an Islamic apologist on BBC Radio 4.

I'm worried about all those teddies I have boxed up in the loft, now...

[General Zod]

I meant in respect to serious crimes, and blasphemy is one of the most serious crimes possible (in countries lunatic enough to make it a crime at all).

Consider the point conceded then. I was working under the assumption you meant all crimes.

[Molyneux]

"A teddy bear in Sudanese culture is not linked with children going to bed and nursery rhymes, it is considered a wild animal and a dangerous animal and is not something good to be linked to." ~ Interview with an Islamic apologist on BBC Radio 4.

I'm worried about all those teddies I have boxed up in the loft, now...

Reminds me of a great Mercedes Lackey story I read once, actually...psychotic pedophiliac posing as an ice-cream man kidnaps a little girl, but before he can do anything to her, her teddy bear (it's implied) carves him up.

[CJvR]

"A teddy bear in Sudanese culture is not linked with children going to bed and nursery rhymes, it is considered a wild animal and a dangerous animal and is not something good to be linked to." ~ Interview with an Islamic apologist on BBC Radio 4.

There are bears in Sudan?

[wautd]

"A teddy bear in Sudanese culture is not linked with children going to bed and nursery rhymes, it is considered a wild animal and a dangerous animal and is not something good to be linked to." ~ Interview with an Islamic apologist on BBC Radio 4.

Ugh, pathetic. Please tell he got flamed for that

[Androsphinx]

"A teddy bear in Sudanese culture is not linked with children going to bed and nursery rhymes, it is considered a wild animal and a dangerous animal and is not something good to be linked to." ~ Interview with an Islamic apologist on BBC Radio 4.

Ugh, pathetic. Please tell he got flamed for that

On the BBC? On Radio 4? Not this lifetime.

[Darth Wong]

"A teddy bear in Sudanese culture is not linked with children going to bed and nursery rhymes, it is considered a wild animal and a dangerous animal and is not something good to be linked to." ~ Interview with an Islamic apologist on BBC Radio 4.

I'm worried about all those teddies I have boxed up in the loft, now...

Laugh all you want at the stupid Islamic fundie theocrats. We're unquestionably better in that regard, but we still have serious problems separating religion from state. Imagine if this teacher was living in Texas and had shown pictures of topless women to her schoolchildren for some reason, and then justified it by saying that the schoolchildren approved of the material. She'd face immediate dismissal, fines, and perhaps end up on a sex offender registry for the rest of her life (which, as we know, sometimes does lead to violent retribution). But of course, that's different because that offends one of our silly beliefs, not one of theirs.

It's true that we're not as bad. Not as radical, not as prone to mob violence, etc. But the same mindsets are still there, just toned down.

[wautd]

False dilemma, as I've never said prison was a superior form of punishment. However I don't see how anyone can seriously say that corporal punishment is a viable practice for non violent crimes.

You're not thinking about this situation from the perspective of a religious country. In a religious country, Blasphemy is one of the most severe crimes imaginable.

This is why religious countries are bad.

However, in the Sudan, Blasphemy is not non-violent, rather, it is a violent act against God, Man, and Society.

The idea that this is a minor crime is a western one, which is entirely false. We don't have blasphemy as a crime at all, and for good reason. For those countries which do, however, blasphemy is a serious offense--it is treason against God, just as aiding the enemy in war is treason against the State. The wonder is that execution is not one of the potential punishments, not that she may be lashed for it.

According to the latest headlines, the fundi's are now actually advocating for the death penalty

[Steel]

False dilemma, as I've never said prison was a superior form of punishment. However I don't see how anyone can seriously say that corporal punishment is a viable practice for non violent crimes.

You're not thinking about this situation from the perspective of a religious country. In a religious country, Blasphemy is one of the most severe crimes imaginable.

This is why religious countries are bad.

However, in the Sudan, Blasphemy is not non-violent, rather, it is a violent act against God, Man, and Society.

The idea that this is a minor crime is a western one, which is entirely false. We don't have blasphemy as a crime at all, and for good reason. For those countries which do, however, blasphemy is a serious offense--it is treason against God, just as aiding the enemy in war is treason against the State. The wonder is that execution is not one of the potential punishments, not that she may be lashed for it.

According to the latest headlines, the fundi's are now actually advocating for the death penalty

If its possible to send in troops to shithole countries to rescue british citizens from arranged marriages then there should be no question of sitting back and allowing that sentence to be carried out. Hopefully this will be able to be resolved without the teacher being put on trial, but it'll take quite a bit of diplomatic work...

[Dartzap]

Shes been found guilty of Insulting Religion - which amounts to 15 days in prison and deportation back to the UK afterwards.

[NecronLord]

Laugh all you want at the stupid Islamic fundie theocrats.

I'm more laughing at what was, IIRC, meant to be an embassy spokesperson, apparently believing that 'Teddy Bear' is a real and dangerous species, like Polar Bear, or Grizzly Bear.

[Ubiquitous]

Such a shame that South Park isn't airing at the moment...

[Androsphinx]

From CNN

KHARTOUM, Sudan (CNN) -- A Sudanese court found a British teacher guilty of insulting religion and sentenced her to 15 days in prison Thursday for allowing a teddy bear to be named "Mohammed," British authorities and her lawyer reported.

Gillian Gibbons also faces deportation from Sudan after her prison term, her lawyer told CNN.

He said that he was "very disappointed" with the verdict and that Gibbons planned to appeal.

Gibbons was not convicted of two other charges brought against her -- inciting hatred and showing contempt for religious beliefs, her lawyer said.

Gibbons, 54, was arrested Sunday after she asked her class of 7-year-olds in Khartoum to name the stuffed animal as part of a school project, the British Foreign Office said. She had faced charges under Article 125 of Sudan's constitution, the law relating to insulting religion and inciting hatred.

Although there is no ban in the Quran on images of Allah or the Prophet Mohammed, Islam's founder, likenesses are considered highly offensive by Muslims. Video Watch latest developments in the case. »

Appearing somber and dazed, Gibbons arrived at the central courthouse in Khartoum for her closed hearing early Thursday. A staff member from the British Embassy in Khartoum and defense lawyers attended the hearing with her.

The courthouse was heavily guarded by police, who kept journalists -- and, for a while, even one of her attorneys -- away.

Gibbons could have faced a sentence of 40 lashes, a fine, or a jail term of up to a year, according to the Foreign Office, which expressed Britain's dissatisfaction with the verdict.

"We are extremely disappointed that the charges against Gillian Gibbons were not dismissed," Foreign Secretary David Miliband said in a statement issued shortly after the verdict was announced.

"As I said this morning, our clear view is that this is an innocent misunderstanding by a dedicated teacher. Our priority now is to ensure Ms. Gibbons' welfare, and we will continue to provide consular assistance to her. I have called in the Sudanese ambassador, Omer Siddig, this evening to explain the decision and discuss next steps."

The Foreign Office said Gibbons would be given credit for the four days since her arrest, meaning that the she has 11 days remaining on her sentence.

Earlier, Miliband had met with Siddig, who was summoned to the Foreign Office in London.

"I explained to him that we were very concerned by the case. We believe that this was an innocent misunderstanding," Miliband said in a statement released Thursday after the meeting.

"The Sudanese ambassador undertook to ensure our concerns were relayed to Khartoum at the highest level. He also said he would reflect back to Khartoum the real respect for the Islamic religion in this country," the statement added.

On the first floor of the courthouse, around 25 police linked arms and forced journalists and British officials away from the court entrance. Police detained some journalists, and confiscated a camera belonging to a freelance CNN cameraman.

Four vans filled with riot police were waiting outside the courthouse, but there were no signs of street disturbances or protests. Staff from Gibbons' school, including Robert Boulos, the head of Unity High School, were present. The staff members refused to comment on their colleague's predicament.

On Wednesday, Boulos said he was "horrified" when he found out that the complaint about the naming of the bear came from a member of his own staff -- not from a parent, as originally thought. Defense counsel later confirmed that the complaint came from Sarah Khawad, a secretary at the school.

Gibbons has been working at the school -- popular with wealthy Sudanese and expatriates -- since August, after leaving her position as deputy head teacher at a primary school in Liverpool, England, this summer, Boulos said.

He said Gibbons asked the children to pick their favorite name for the new class mascot, which she was using to aid lessons about animals and their habitats

[DPDarkPrimus]

A version of the article on Yahoo revealed that one of her defense attorneys was carrying a gun because of death threats they had received.

[Androsphinx]

Also, just because it's Sudan. It's not the best place in the world for rule of law (although this -was- rather quick, I guess!)

[CJvR]

Nice to see that the lunatics havnt completly taken over the sylum.

[Dartzap]

Nice to see that the lunatics havnt completly taken over the sylum.

You say that and.....Beeb

Shoot UK teacher, say protesters
Thousands of people have marched in the Sudanese capital Khartoum to call for UK teacher Gillian Gibbons to be shot.

Mrs Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool, was jailed by a court on Thursday after children in her class named a teddy bear Muhammad.

She was sentenced to 15 days for insulting religion, and she will then be deported.

The Foreign Office was in contact with Sudan's government overnight and is due to repeat demands for her release.

'Kill her'

The marchers took to the streets after Friday prayers to denounce the sentence as too lenient.

The protesters gathered in Martyrs Square, outside the presidential palace in the capital, many of them carrying knives and sticks.

Marchers chanted "Shame, shame on the UK", "No tolerance - execution" and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad".

Hundreds of riot police were deployed but they did not break up the demonstration.

The Foreign Office said it was seeking more details about the protest.

'Strongest terms'

Prime Minister Gordon Brown has been in touch with Mrs Gibbons' family for a second time, speaking to a close relative of the teacher.

Foreign Secretary David Miliband has expressed "in the strongest terms" the UK's concern at her detention.

The Sudanese ambassador, Omer Siddig, was called back to the Foreign Office to explain the decision.



The Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams said he could not "see any justification" for the sentence, calling it an "absurdly disproportionate response" to a "minor cultural faux pas".

The Federation of Student Islamic Societies (Fosis), which represents more than 90,000 Muslim students in the UK and Ireland, said it was "deeply concerned" at what was a "gravely disproportionate" verdict.

The federation's president, Ali Alhadithi, said: "What we have here is a case of cultural misunderstandings, and the delicacies of the matter demonstrate that it was not the intention of Gillian Gibbons to imply any offence against Islam or Muslims.

"We hope that the Sudanese authorities will take immediate action to secure a safe release for Gillian Gibbons."

In September, Mrs Gibbons allowed her class of primary school pupils to name the teddy bear Muhammad as part of a study of animals and their habitats.

The court heard that she was arrested on Sunday after another member of staff at Unity High School complained to the Ministry of Education.

This is going to get hairy, me thinks.

[wautd]

From this day forward, my toilet is called Mohammed

[Hillary]

This whole issue has me wondering. Did the "Incitement to religous hatred" bill ever get passed? If so, could an incident like this fall foul of that law?

One would hope that this incident puts the kybosh on any idea of the blasphemy law that was being touted at one point.

[Dargos]

I really can't see what the uproar is about. If this woman had received a whipping in accordance with that country’s law, then it sucks to be her.

I do not advocate whipping or torture but if you choose to work in a foreign country (especially religious or radical countries) you should really educate yourself about its laws and customs prior to working and/or visiting there. Ignorance of a law is not a defense.

[Raj Ahten]

I find the whole uproar over this quite amusing (in a dark and horrible way). Don't news organizations have more important things to worry about in Sudan? Such as the genecide perhaps?

On a related note Fuck the government of Sudan, Fuck their legal system, and Fuck their citezens who protested for the death of the British woman. They are all a bunch of genecidal douchebags. Where the fuck were Sudan's citezen protests when the genicide started?

The depressing answer I know in my head is that a great many of the people in Sudan probably support the genicide, and supporting third party militias to do your dirty work is just bussiness as usual in Africa.