14-Year-Old JW Refuses Blood Transfusion

[SCRawl]

Erm, that's *prescribed*, not proscribed, in the case of my post. Grrr....

[FSTargetDrone]

If a religion required its adherents to commit suicide -- as silly as that sounds -- then the church elders (or whoever proscribed the act) are guilty of abetting suicide. In Canada that carries a hefty jail sentence.

Jim Jones at Jonestown incited mass suicide. If he had survived, I'd be willing to bet he'd be looking at murder charges.

[General Zod]

I've been looking into it, but haven't yet confirmed that suicide is technically against the law. I recall hearing that it was, but I can't verify it. Anyone?

It used to be against the law, especially in England. But nowadays it's largely defunct. It'd be pretty hard to enforce anyway even if it were illegal.

[SCRawl]

If a religion required its adherents to commit suicide -- as silly as that sounds -- then the church elders (or whoever proscribed the act) are guilty of abetting suicide. In Canada that carries a hefty jail sentence.

Jim Jones at Jonestown incited mass suicide. If he had survived, I'd be willing to bet he'd be looking at murder charges.

Granted, this didn't happen in Canada, but if it did...

241. Every one who

(a) counsels a person to commit suicide, or

(b) aids or abets a person to commit suicide,

whether suicide ensues or not, is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 241; R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 7.

Fourteen years times a whole bunch sounds pretty serious to me, without worrying about actual murder charges.

It seems clear to me that Jones' Kool-Aid sacrament was different from the JW's policy of no blood products. Both are illogical, but if we accept that people are to have religious freedoms then we have to accept that they'll do things that are illogical with them. I think that a 14-year-old brainwashed kid is a sad test case here, but again, until and unless we can do away with the whole "religious freedom above all else" crap, we're going to have to live with the fact that people will die for their illogical belief systems. I personally don't like it, but that's just how it goes.

[SCRawl]

I've been looking into it, but haven't yet confirmed that suicide is technically against the law. I recall hearing that it was, but I can't verify it. Anyone?

It used to be against the law, especially in England. But nowadays it's largely defunct. It'd be pretty hard to enforce anyway even if it were illegal.

Looking it up on the Straight Dope, apparently for the Romans attempted suicide was punished with death. Oh, the irony....

[Flagg]

But I also don't think people should be forced into medical procedures they explicitely do not want to undergo, as long as they are found to be capable of making that decision. The Judge found that the kid was.

Kids are made to do a lot of things they don't want to. Eating vegetables and doing chores come to mind. Why should medical procedures be any different when it's actually going to save their life? It's not as if this is some sort of purely cosmetic procedure or experimental surgery.

Except that's the legal guardians forcing the kids to eat vegetables and do chores. In this situation the legal guardian, the kid, and even the kids doctors were backing his decision not to have the transfusion.

[FSTargetDrone]

It seems clear to me that Jones' Kool-Aid sacrament was different from the JW's policy of no blood products. Both are illogical, but if we accept that people are to have religious freedoms then we have to accept that they'll do things that are illogical with them. I think that a 14-year-old brainwashed kid is a sad test case here, but again, until and unless we can do away with the whole "religious freedom above all else" crap, we're going to have to live with the fact that people will die for their illogical belief systems. I personally don't like it, but that's just how it goes.

Oh, I wasn't making a direct comparison to Jones' beliefs and those of the JW. It was just the first religious group that came to mind when you mentioned a religion that advocated/required suicide above. There may be others with ritual suicide, other cults and the like but I'm too tired to look it up now.

Anyway, I think it's a terrible tragedy that a person so young died for what seems to me nothing more than indoctrination from the aunt. You know, I wonder how devout she'd be if faced with a similar situation in regards to her own health.

[General Zod]

Except that's the legal guardians forcing the kids to eat vegetables and do chores. In this situation the legal guardian, the kid, and even the kids doctors were backing his decision not to have the transfusion.

Except generally, when parents and/or legal guardians deliberately put their children in life-threatening danger the state takes them away. To me this is a very good example of such a thing, and frankly I'm failing to see why it should slide for religious reasons.

[Davey]

I've been looking into it, but haven't yet confirmed that suicide is technically against the law. I recall hearing that it was, but I can't verify it. Anyone?

I'm not sure, but I heard there's a law in Japan that if you commit suicide and inconvenience other people in doing so, they make your family pay for it!

[Darth Wong]

I've been looking into it, but haven't yet confirmed that suicide is technically against the law. I recall hearing that it was, but I can't verify it. Anyone?

It used to be against the law, especially in England. But nowadays it's largely defunct. It'd be pretty hard to enforce anyway even if it were illegal.

Looking it up on the Straight Dope, apparently for the Romans attempted suicide was punished with death. Oh, the irony....

Mind you, given what we know of the Romans and their methods of execution, you would probably wish your suicide attempt had succeeded.

[Lord of the Abyss]

I've been looking into it, but haven't yet confirmed that suicide is technically against the law. I recall hearing that it was, but I can't verify it. Anyone?

I'm not sure, but I heard there's a law in Japan that if you commit suicide and inconvenience other people in doing so, they make your family pay for it!

I seem to recall that it used to be in England that if you committed suicide, the state would take the estate and the family would inherit nothing. I can't find a cite one way or the other, however.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

It used to be against the law, especially in England. But nowadays it's largely defunct. It'd be pretty hard to enforce anyway even if it were illegal.

Looking it up on the Straight Dope, apparently for the Romans attempted suicide was punished with death. Oh, the irony....

Mind you, given what we know of the Romans and their methods of execution, you would probably wish your suicide attempt had succeeded.

That's actually an urban legend anyway; the Romans fully approved of suicide in a variety of circumstances and had a certain degree of considerable respect for what in Latin translates literally as "voluntary death". All treatises of the period suggest an understanding of suicide as a final, voluntary act which the individual had rationally concluded was necessary. Considering the innumerable accounts of very famous and prominent Romans committing suicide, the assertion that they treated it or its attempt as a crime is rather strange, and probably an example of Christian moralising.