White People = Racist, apparently

[Big Phil]

A little experiment here; is this police brutality or is this justified?

http://break.com/index/driver-gets-taze ... slow1.html

How is that even remotely relevant?

I'm wondering how people see this based on their backgrounds; is this racism, or is this a black guy whining about racist cops, or something else and entirely unrelated?

[Master of Ossus]

I stand by my assertion: Barring *very* rare circumstances, when you are fifteen you have jack-shit in terms of experience with real-world issues. Judging from what Pwnage has been saying and how he's been saying it, he probably has not... no, definitely has not had those experiences. And I see no reason to believe you had at that age either.

My point is that you are in no position to say that.

Let me get this straight: someone who is older than you are (and who has, therefore, been your age in the past) is in no position to address the issue of whether your youth and inexperience could prevent you from fully understanding massive issues like race relations in the US?

On the other hand, you, who are younger than Oni, and by definition have no experiences of being his age, are in a sufficiently strong position to reject out of hand the possibility that there actually is something to this whole "age" thing, after all, and that you actually do have more to experience before you form a fully mature position on this?

Look, believe it or not, I do have some memories of being 15 and in HS, and I know that back then I was the best debater in all my classes and could pretty much get the class to agree with whatever I said. Looking back, though, that doesn't mean that my opinions on such large issues were fully formed--I'm embarrassed by some of the ideas that I held when I was in HS (gays are evil, wars are cool, the principle is a douchebag and the education system could be easily improved if everyone would just listen to me, etc.--this was a while ago), and frankly I'm pretty sure most of my peers have similar memories, today.

Race relations, and racism, are not exceptions: if you asked my HS self about racism, he would've told you how racists sucked and tell you about the history of racism and probably even cite some statistics or even a few personal experiences. And he would've told you that he had a good understanding of racism. And I would tell him, now, that he didn't have a mature grasp of the issue, because my memory is that he didn't.

[General Zod]

I'm wondering how people see this based on their backgrounds; is this racism, or is this a black guy whining about racist cops, or something else and entirely unrelated?

It seemed like they were both being needlessly antagonistic. The cop was clearly assholish and the guy in the car should have just handed over his license and registration without whining about it.

[Master of Ossus]

I'm wondering how people see this based on their backgrounds; is this racism, or is this a black guy whining about racist cops, or something else and entirely unrelated?

I agree with the driver--the officer was clearly having an incredibly bad day, and that driver was unlucky enough to get the brunt of it. On the other hand, refusing to give your license to a police officer because he's "yelling" at you is one of the dumber things to do in life. I'm not going to discount the possibility that this was racism, but in general I don't ascribe things to racism that can be ascribed to people just being jerks.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

My point is that you are in no position to say that.

Yes, I can now see by the evidence you presented that...

...wait a minute, you didn't provide any evidence, you merely repeated your bullshit assertion without even attempting to address any points brought up.

Grow the fuck up, child.

I don't think the term "black community" has anything to do with any culture you're ascribing to people who live in such a community, but honest-to-god has to do with race (and there are neighborhoods in which an incredible majority of residents are black, here).

Then the question would be, "So fucking what?"

AP asked, "Would you be willing to live in a black community?" He provided absolutely no further elaboration on what he meant by 'black community'. Just what the hell are we supposed to take from that? That he assumes that all 'black communities' are similar enough that he can cover them all with the blanket term 'black community' and assume we'll know what he's talking about without further explanation? That in itself is pretty damn racist.

If he only meant a community with a majority population of black people, then the question itself is meaningless because it's far too vague to answer correctly since, as was pointed out, these communities can vary from decent and well-off to ghetto-shitholes and everything in between. You might as well ask "Would you be willing to live in an Illinois community?" or "Would you be willing to living in a mostly monotheistic community?" The term itself is either racist in implication, or too broad to be of any use in discussion.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

A little experiment here; is this police brutality or is this justified?

http://break.com/index/driver-gets-taze ... slow1.html

How is that even remotely relevant?

I'm wondering how people see this based on their backgrounds; is this racism, or is this a black guy whining about racist cops, or something else and entirely unrelated?

You know, for most of the video I couldn't even tell the guy was black.

But anyways, both were out of line, but I think the cop was a whole lot worse overall. The dipshit shouldn't have talked back to the cop, but jesus-fucking-christ that cop seemed way too eager to jump up the 'escalation of force' ladder.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Well since we all are generalizing... white people are elitist snobs who think themselves deserving of a special class especially above black people. They feel that black people should just shut up and accept their position in society. It is their own fault that the are in the position that they are in.

To pose a question, would anyone here move into a black community?

I have no particular objections. For me, the community I move in to will be judged on completely different criteria from most people. The first is that if given an ideal choice, I would want to live in a rural area, or at least at area with no HOA(what I want to do with my house and yard would probably be against the rules. IE completely powered by solar panels and creating a little island of native plant an animal species)

Barring that, I refuse to live in an area where I dont feel safe. This is general and only has a statistical correlation with the racial demographics. I will be frank. I will not go back into the closet. Ever. For any reason. As such I will not live anywhere near large groups of homophobes or fundies. I will have a big rainbow sticker on my car along with a darwin fish and a "honk if you understand punctuated equilibrium" sticker. I will not live in an area where I dont feel safe at night, or where my house gets egged, or where I get called a fagot when I get the paper in the morning.

All other things being equal would I be happy living in a "black community" sure. But statistically all things are not equal and there is a statistically higher probability of high religiousity, crime and poverty in black communities and those three combined equals Alyrium not feeling safe.

[Lonestar]

To pose a question, would anyone here move into a black community?

I've tried to in the past, only to find out I make more than the maximum income, thus thwarting my plan to live ghetto fabulous.

[Lagmonster]

To pose a question, would anyone here move into a black community?

When someone says "black community" to me, I immediately picture block tribes - the kind of place where a whole extended family or people from the same nation all immigrated to at once and has lived there for generations and where even the corner-store businesses and local restaurants reflect the local culture.

But if you asked me, in these cases it's not that other ethnic groups are staying out or kept out, it's that these communities are more attractive to certain ethnic groups rather than others, since that sort of area of town is designed to be desirable to that particular ethnic group by catering to their business interests and community interests (community festivals, familiar cuisine, etc.).

It's fairly obvious that if I lived near a New York ghetto, the term takes on a whole new meaning, since it refers to "the only place the poor minorities can live" rather than "a section of town owned by and inhabited by and patronized by a specific ethnic group".

[Big Phil]

I stand by my assertion: Barring *very* rare circumstances, when you are fifteen you have jack-shit in terms of experience with real-world issues. Judging from what Pwnage has been saying and how he's been saying it, he probably has not... no, definitely has not had those experiences. And I see no reason to believe you had at that age either.

My point is that you are in no position to say that.

You need to realize that people aren't going to respect your age and experience (or lack thereof) until you demonstrate why they should respect them, and going around with a chip on your shoulder, insisting that you have the experience and that you're unique, when you very clearly aren't, doesn't help anyone's impression of you.

Most of the experiences you've described ring a bell with people older than you; we all remember what it was like being 15, and most of us look back on our 15 year old selves and think "what a dumbass," and laugh at some of the ideas we had back then.

Hell, my understanding and perception of racism has changed significantly since I was 15, going from "racism=bad" and "only morons are racists" to a much more nuanced and complicated understanding of the issue.

[Flagg]

I stand by my assertion: Barring *very* rare circumstances, when you are fifteen you have jack-shit in terms of experience with real-world issues. Judging from what Pwnage has been saying and how he's been saying it, he probably has not... no, definitely has not had those experiences. And I see no reason to believe you had at that age either.

My point is that you are in no position to say that.

You need to realize that people aren't going to respect your age and experience (or lack thereof) until you demonstrate why they should respect them, and going around with a chip on your shoulder, insisting that you have the experience and that you're unique, when you very clearly aren't, doesn't help anyone's impression of you.

Most of the experiences you've described ring a bell with people older than you; we all remember what it was like being 15, and most of us look back on our 15 year old selves and think "what a dumbass," and laugh at some of the ideas we had back then.

Hell, my understanding and perception of racism has changed significantly since I was 15, going from "racism=bad" and "only morons are racists" to a much more nuanced and complicated understanding of the issue.

Fuck dude, my understanding of racism has changed in the last year. I'd wager that's going to continue for the rest of my life and everyone else's.

[brianeyci]

In all fairness to Elite Pwnage, the age issue is bullshit. All he had to do was ask for evidence that blacks are whiners, but he didn't and he "agreed with RIPP." If anything, you guys should be attacking RIPP. The age issue was a total red herring.

RIPP's rebuttal is based on a strawman of Mike's position. When someone says "blacks are whiners" that doesn't mean he says all blacks are whiners. Obviously Mike is meaning the community leaders and people in positions of power, like the parents around here who are saying we need black school and segregation on public dollars hur hur.

It doesn't fucking matter if not all blacks are whiners: it's the parents and leaders that have the most influence and power in their community. It also doesn't fucking matter about elite's age.

I thought the age issue was settled months ago, when IP trashed people for bringing up age for every and any inconsequential thing. Age is useful with family issues, relationships and work. It does not prevent someone from understanding history, or current events, or politics, above a certain age.

That's not to say elite was in the right: he is wrong. But I see nothing that would precipitate a personal attack on elite's age from his first post, and all you age fucks were suckered into a red herring. You guys know what a red herring is?

[Meest]

Why is it ok to lump "whites" into the same group too? I'm the first in at least 3 generations to be born in Canada and not Italy, am I white? Because when I grew up my parents made it a point that we weren't "white" we are Italian and "whites" are the type of person to eat Kraft Dinner, processed cheese and Ragu pasta sauce, but even then it wasn't a skin issue just a lifestyle thing.

The idea that if you are white you automatically have more opportunity must be more evident elsewhere, because if I have my full blown olive skin tan going on I don't feel like I'm getting this preference. People always guess a range from Greek to South American to Italian when guessing my background. Anecdotal evidence between two white groups being racist is when I worked at an Argentinian run factory I got treated like crap for not being able to speak Spanish.

I find racism to be more between lifestyle, income and neighbourhood similarities than pure skin colour. To answer the question, no I wouldn't move into any community that consists of a majority of an ethnic group even if the average income was high. My family went from a Toronto neighbourhood with a variety of people to a 90% upper middle class Italian neighbourhood and it was safer but the life experience was worse, majority of people are pricks to the lesser "rich" folk. So I think income plays into it as much as colour.

[Fleet Admiral JD]

I stand by my assertion: Barring *very* rare circumstances, when you are fifteen you have jack-shit in terms of experience with real-world issues. Judging from what Pwnage has been saying and how he's been saying it, he probably has not... no, definitely has not had those experiences. And I see no reason to believe you had at that age either.

My point is that you are in no position to say that.

You need to realize that people aren't going to respect your age and experience (or lack thereof) until you demonstrate why they should respect them, and going around with a chip on your shoulder, insisting that you have the experience and that you're unique, when you very clearly aren't, doesn't help anyone's impression of you.

Most of the experiences you've described ring a bell with people older than you; we all remember what it was like being 15, and most of us look back on our 15 year old selves and think "what a dumbass," and laugh at some of the ideas we had back then.

Hell, my understanding and perception of racism has changed significantly since I was 15, going from "racism=bad" and "only morons are racists" to a much more nuanced and complicated understanding of the issue.

I'm 18, and I look at my 15-year-old self as a dumbass. Jeez. Wait a few years, Pwnage, and see what you think when you reflect on what you're saying here. I recall a lot of the ideas that I put forward three years ago and now see what a moron I was. Hell, I liked Bush then! I have matured more than you can imagine in the last three years, and with any hope, you will too.

Brianeyci

His age is now an issue in the larger question of things, and it is indeed relevant. His lack of experience and knowledge of the real world are being attacked to show his cluelessness in this issue.

[Schuyler Colfax]

My point is that you are in no position to say that.

You need to realize that people aren't going to respect your age and experience (or lack thereof) until you demonstrate why they should respect them, and going around with a chip on your shoulder, insisting that you have the experience and that you're unique, when you very clearly aren't, doesn't help anyone's impression of you.

Most of the experiences you've described ring a bell with people older than you; we all remember what it was like being 15, and most of us look back on our 15 year old selves and think "what a dumbass," and laugh at some of the ideas we had back then.

Hell, my understanding and perception of racism has changed significantly since I was 15, going from "racism=bad" and "only morons are racists" to a much more nuanced and complicated understanding of the issue.

I'm 18, and I look at my 15-year-old self as a dumbass. Jeez. Wait a few years, Pwnage, and see what you think when you reflect on what you're saying here. I recall a lot of the ideas that I put forward three years ago and now see what a moron I was. Hell, I liked Bush then! I have matured more than you can imagine in the last three years, and with any hope, you will too.

Brianeyci

His age is now an issue in the larger question of things, and it is indeed relevant. His lack of experience and knowledge of the real world are being attacked to show his cluelessness in this issue.

I'm doing that now. Looking back on the 9th grade and some of the posts that I made my first year here. That guy was a dumbass.

[Justforfun000]

In relation to that video by the way, that is fucking ridiculous. One person posted and said that it ended up being they didn't see any need for 'disciplinary action' towards the officer.

That is fucking ludicrous. I don't care that the guy was slow, and I don't care that he was jawing a bit to the cop. They should NEVER be authorized to use their goddamn taser without a reasonable display of aggression from their subject, OR an inordinately stubborn refusal to be arrested. The time elapsed in this case was absolutely ridiculous. That fucking asshole cop just expected absolute, unquestioning obedience and escalated every step in to a completely unnecessary assault and arrest.

He treated his taser like a toy. I don't give a goddamn that cops are authority, they do NOT have unlimited power handed to them to overrun the average citizen. Taxpayers employ them, and they are supposed to be CUSTODIANS of society, not fucking dictatorial assholes that can tase people in less then a minute because they didn't jump the instant they said 'boo'.

Just once I'd love to see somebody be able to kick the taser out of a cops hand after being unjustly zapped and give it right fucking back to him. Would serve the prick right. It'd be even sweeter if the person got away and was out of his jurisdiction. I can't stand abuse of power. It's just as reprehensible to me as child abuse and rape.

[brianeyci]

Brianeyci

His age is now an issue in the larger question of things, and it is indeed relevant. His lack of experience and knowledge of the real world are being attacked to show his cluelessness in this issue.

Yes, now it is, but only cause you guys either deliberatley or accidently hijacked the thread to trap him into talking about his age. He said he agreed with RIPP that black people are not whiners. The rebuttal...

...he is not OLD enough to understand racism beyond black and white!

Wow, a paragon of intellectual discourse right there, not to mention by Sanchez who brings up age whenever he can. It was a trap pure and simple, orchestrated by people who don't like Elite. Whether he deserves to be flamed or not I don't particularly care, and I think he should change his name because it's retarded, but let's not pretend it wasn't entrapment to steer the thread away from real discussion.

Now onto the quality of the rebuttal. The claim is, that below a certain age, you cannot understand racism beyond black and white. I ask you: were you guys fucking discriminated a child? It's true, it starts out as nigger or cracker or bad words or skin color. But it quickly turns into, you can't play with these guys or those guys because you don't share their culture, and it quickly turns into whiners who complain about racism when there's really no racism. Racism is more about being marginalized rather than bad words, and even a fourteen year old can identify where he's wanted and where he isn't, even if he can't articulate said facts. I remember one guy going up to a bunch of white guys in Grade Nine asking if he could play cards with them, and they looked at each other and said no. No bad words, no nothing, but the guy immediately said, it's because I'm black/asian/hispanic (I dont' remember exactly) right away. There are whiners at every age, and/or discrimination based not just on bad words at every age, I would say as soon as someone hits high school where the cliques form up. There are also whiners who go to teachers to beg for marks, and whine about discrimination whenever they don't get it.

So in short, the claim that a high school student can't see shades of grey in high school just by virtue of his age is retarded. Maybe you should attack his position rather than his age... akin to attacking someone for being fat.

[Big Phil]

Wow, a paragon of intellectual discourse right there, not to mention by Sanchez who brings up age whenever he can. It was a trap pure and simple, orchestrated by people who don't like Elite. Whether he deserves to be flamed or not I don't particularly care, and I think he should change his name because it's retarded, but let's not pretend it wasn't entrapment to steer the thread away from real discussion.

Usually I'm criticizing someone's experience, or lack thereof. I don't give a rats ass how old Mike is... if he starts telling me what it's like to be a grandparent, I'm calling bullshit. The thing is, most adults on this board don't go claiming experience(s) they don't have.

And for the record, I have no issue with EP, so don't lump me in with "people who don't like Elite."

So in short, the claim that a high school student can't see shades of grey in high school just by virtue of his age is retarded. Maybe you should attack his position rather than his age... akin to attacking someone for being fat.

That's what I did originally - I pointed out that the worldview and experiences of a 15 year black kid cannot be extrapolated to all black people, which is what he was doing. The fact is that EP is has previously demonstrated some immaturity which, given that he's 15, is not all that surprising, and I was simply trying to point out, as eloquently as possible, that he might not want to assume his experiences are so worldly.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

I'm with Sanchez on this one. EP made a sweeping claim about experience with racism, and Sanchez called doubt on it, regarding his age. Which in this case is perfectly valid because while there are some people who have dealt with racism at an early (high school) age and truly understand the intricacies of it, these are a vast minority.

EP's reply to said accusations were not refutations of any sort. He did not provide any examples that would back up his claim that he actually does have experience regarding it. Instead he says, basically, "You're wrong, I'm right, shut up!"

Strangely enough, this is EXACTLY what I'd expect someone successfully called out on their inexperience would do if the still didn't want to admit that, yeah, maybe they are inexperienced.

So maybe it's not the best form to immediately call someone's claims into question because of their age as Sanchez did, but it doesn't change the fact that EP's actions ended up proving Sanchez right in the end.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

Oh, and if it were a 'trap', it's a pretty lame trap, because all you have to do to defeat it is simply relate some personal experiences that show, yeah, you do have the fucking experience to pass judgment on it. You know, that simple thing known as 'backing up your claims'.

Funny how EP has done no such thing.

[brianeyci]

Well, you guys ever think that maybe he doesn't want to share his shit on the Internet, and only was mentioning something vague to prove that not all black people are whiners? The logical rebuttal is to say, Mike was never saying that all black people were whiners.

He is not claiming superiority based on his experience, but all he said was he experienced racism. That is a very clear distinction, sufficient to prove that not all black people are whiners, but you guys do not take his word for it... why?

Because children cannot experience racism say you, is the serious implication.

Here is the problem I have with your guys line of questioning. The implication is that his experiences were not real racism, and that any kid under a certain age cannot experience real racism. Only adults with their great nuanced views of the universe can experience real racism, barring exceptional circumstances say you.

All I have to say is that belittles racism. If adults took the racism happening in children seriously, then the seeds of racism as an adult would not be planted. Age here was a total red herring. I would have a way easier time believing that this wasn't an excuse to bring up his age, if it wasn't Sanchez bringing it up like he always does, and if you guys went after RIPP, who made the premise elite agrees with in the first place. It was totally a trap and all the people jumped on the anti-elite bandwagon.

And change your fucking name elite: I almost didn't want to post about this just because saying your name makes me want to spit.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

Well, you guys ever think that maybe he doesn't want to share his shit on the Internet, and only was mentioning something vague to prove that not all black people are whiners?

We are reading the same thread, right? When called out on his experience, his reply was, essentially, "I have the experience, I'm in high school, so shut up!"

When asked to provide something substantial for us to believe him, he refused. There is this little thing called evidence, and it doesn't matter jack-shit whether or not he *wants* to provide it. If he really wants his claims to be believed and us not to question whether or not he really has experience, he'll fucking back it up.

I did, I related several different incidents spread out over a period of years that raised my awareness of it. Why can't he?

The logical rebuttal is to say, Mike was never saying that all black people were whiners.

...which is exactly what I said. Thanks again for showing you failed to read.

He is not claiming superiority based on his experience, but all he said was he experienced racism.

He strawmanned Mike's statement and then proceeded to claim that he had just as much experience with racism than people many years his senior. When asked to BACK UP HIS CLAIMS, WHICH IS STANDARD FUCKING PRACTICE ON THIS BOARD, he did nothing but repeat them.

That is a very clear distinction, sufficient to prove that not all black people are whiners, but you guys do not take his word for it... why?

Oh Jesus fucking Christ, do you care to point out where *any* of us claimed that all black people are whiners, or ever doubted anyone else's claim that not all black people are whiners? We didn't doubt his claim about not all black people being whiners, anyone with an ounce of sense already knows that. We were doubting his claim that we have no right to assume a high schooler does not have the same experience with racism as people at least a decade his senior, *especially* when he has presented *no* evidence to back up his claims of experience.

Because children cannot experience racism say you, is the serious implication.

Take your strawman, soak it in petrol, shove it up your ass and light your next fart. One of the first things I said was that it was entirely possible for children to experience racism. I also pointed out that the ones who do this, can understand the effects of it, and come to at least a semi-reasoned conclusion based on the experience are a minority, and I asked for evidence that EP was a part of this minority.

Here is the problem I have with your guys line of questioning. The implication is that his experiences were not real racism, and that any kid under a certain age cannot experience real racism.

Bullshit. We can't make any implications at all because he has provided NO evidence to back up his claims, there is nothing there for us to examine. So without any evidence whatsoever, I'm taking the reasonable tack and assume he fits into the vast majority of kids who don't have any sort of real experience with it, but are certain they know all about it.

If he actually presents evidence to the contrary, I'll gladly change my position.

Only adults with their great nuanced views of the universe can experience real racism, barring exceptional circumstances say you.

The only children who experience racism first hand in any way that they can comprehend and learn from it at that age are those minorities who have to deal firsthand with racists and aren't morons themselves. This is, predictably, a minority of children, hence the statement stands.

I would have a way easier time believing that this wasn't an excuse to bring up his age, if it wasn't Sanchez bringing it up like he always does,

So you admit to poisoning the well, or is this some sort of vendetta you have?

You just admitted that it was the person making the claims that got your panties in a twist, not so much the claim itself.

and if you guys went after RIPP, who made the premise elite agrees with in the first place.

RIPP didn't make any further statements to be called out on. On the other hand, EP has continued to stamp around screaming, "No, you're wrong, I'm right, quit judging me!" without providing any actual evidence why we shouldn't, and a whole lot of reasons why we should consider him and inexperienced, immature little brat.

It was totally a trap and all the people jumped on the anti-elite bandwagon.

So what? He acted like an immature idiot and got called out on it. Now you're taking offense because... he got called out on acting like an immature idiot?

I'll say it again, *all* he has to do is back up his claim that he has valid experience with racism.

[Big Phil]

Well, you guys ever think that maybe he doesn't want to share his shit on the Internet, and only was mentioning something vague to prove that not all black people are whiners? The logical rebuttal is to say, Mike was never saying that all black people were whiners.

Last time I checked, broad sweeping generalities with no supporting evidence were not viewed favorably on this board, or did something change?

He is not claiming superiority based on his experience, but all he said was he experienced racism. That is a very clear distinction, sufficient to prove that not all black people are whiners, but you guys do not take his word for it... why?

Because anecdotes are not sufficient to make this claim.

Because children cannot experience racism say you, is the serious implication.

Oh horseshit; that's not was said at all. I took issue with him saying, and I quote:

Anyway back to my point blacks are not not whiners. Sure every once in a while I do here this at my school "why did all the white kids get 100s". But anyway I'm black and I have experienced racism in the past, like RIPP you learn to accept it and move on. I don't go around seeing blacks bitch about racism they either accept it and move on or do something about.

Again, a broad sweeping generality based on anecdotal evidence...

Here is the problem I have with your guys line of questioning. The implication is that his experiences were not real racism, and that any kid under a certain age cannot experience real racism. Only adults with their great nuanced views of the universe can experience real racism, barring exceptional circumstances say you.

Again, you missed the point.

All I have to say is that belittles racism. If adults took the racism happening in children seriously, then the seeds of racism as an adult would not be planted.

Again, missing the point

Age here was a total red herring. I would have a way easier time believing that this wasn't an excuse to bring up his age, if it wasn't Sanchez bringing it up like he always does, and if you guys went after RIPP, who made the premise elite agrees with in the first place. It was totally a trap and all the people jumped on the anti-elite bandwagon.

So your issue is my pointing out his lack of experience, not his actual lack of experience? I can't say that I know anything about RIPP, so it's hard to know (or comment on) where he's coming from. I do know something about EP, but your point is well taken; next time I'll let EP's stupid comments slide and go after RIPP instead... except that RIPP didn't say something stupid like "blacks are not whiners;" he said:

I would suggest that you lessen the scope of your statement as all black people in America do not complain about racism.

See the difference? It's that nuance that EP missed so blatantly, and that is why I responded, not because I have some vendetta against him. Notice I haven't flamed EP once; if I had it in for him, don't you think I'd be one of the folks that typically call him names and insult him?

[brianeyci]

Let me ask YOU and SanchezWhaler a question. If he had explained what kind of racism he's experienced, would you have accepted it? Of course not. If he mentioned some guys called him nigger, or mentioned he was marginalized, you guys would have laughed in his face. There would have been no standard that would satisfy you, short of a court decision proclaiming it racism, because you had it in your minds a person a certain age cannot experience racism.

Your guys statement that most high school students do not experience racism is a total assumption I suspect to be false and doesn't match my experience in high school. Or correction, any minority experience in high school. What black man has not been called nigger? What black man has not been ignored by another more well off group? This is not an extraordinary claim to make and your demanding evidence is like demanding evidence I crossed the street yesterday.

[RIPP_n_WIPE]

In all fairness to Elite Pwnage, the age issue is bullshit. All he had to do was ask for evidence that blacks are whiners, but he didn't and he "agreed with RIPP." If anything, you guys should be attacking RIPP. The age issue was a total red herring.

RIPP's rebuttal is based on a strawman of Mike's position. When someone says "blacks are whiners" that doesn't mean he says all blacks are whiners. Obviously Mike is meaning the community leaders and people in positions of power, like the parents around here who are saying we need black school and segregation on public dollars hur hur.

It doesn't fucking matter if not all blacks are whiners: it's the parents and leaders that have the most influence and power in their community. It also doesn't fucking matter about elite's age.


I thought the age issue was settled months ago, when IP trashed people for bringing up age for every and any inconsequential thing. Age is useful with family issues, relationships and work. It does not prevent someone from understanding history, or current events, or politics, above a certain age.

That's not to say elite was in the right: he is wrong. But I see nothing that would precipitate a personal attack on elite's age from his first post, and all you age fucks were suckered into a red herring. You guys know what a red herring is?

While I'm not sure why you are trying to encourage to group to focus on my statements, I will address the fact that where I come from at least a " X is Y" statement usually is considered all inclusive. Saying "blacks are whiners" to most of anyone I know would either be understood one of two ways "All blacks are whiners." or would be followed up with the "Do you mean all blacks are whiners?" to which the response is generally "Yes". The way Mr. Wong worded is was as though it was an all inclusive truth.

"Blacks in America are fucking whiners, and they're the ones most responsible for this kind of "constantly whinge about the white man" movement."

Trying to defend the statement by with he didn't say all is a red herring. He didn't need to say all, it was implied, it didn't need to be directly said. I can say similar things"Oranges are round. Pencils are hexagonal. Girls smell. Dogs are stupid..." and no one is going to ask "Well did you mean all of them?"