F-16 intercepts ballistic missile in test..

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F-16 intercepts ballistic missile in test..

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A US F-16 fighter used an air-to-air missile to destroy a sounding rocket in its boost phase for the first time this week in a test of a new missile defense concept, US spokesmen said Tuesday.

The system -- named the Net-Centric Airborne Defense Element (NCDE) -- breaks new ground in that it would arm fighter aircraft or drones with missiles fast enough to intercept a ballistic missile as it lifts into space.

The aircraft would have to get to within a 100 miles of the launch site to catch the ascending missile in the first two to three minutes after launch.

But it could be very useful in a short range combat situation against short and medium range missiles, said Rick Lehner, a spokesman for the US Missile Defense Agency.

The Pentagon has two other better known boost phase intercept systems under development -- the Airborne Laser and the Kinetic Energy Interceptor -- but those are still years away from being ready, he said.

"So it does give us an initial boost phase capability even though it is a much shorter range missile, and you have to be in the area of the missile launch to be effective," Lehner said.

The test Monday at White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico involved an F-16 fighter that fired two modified AIM-9X missile at an Orion sounding or research rocket.

The first destroyed the rocket and the second recorded the interception, the Pentagon's missile defense agency said.

The missile seekers' relayed images of the rocket at close range, demonstrating the capability to acquire and track the target, the Pentagon's missile defense agency said.

"Although not unexpected, the subsequent intercept destroyed the target," it said.

"A second AIM-9X launched during the test observed through its seeker the intercept of the target by the first and was also on a trajectory to intercept the target," the agency said.

Besides special seekers, AIM-9X and AIM-20 AAMRAM are fitted with a new liquid propellant second stage to give it the burst of speed needed to catch a ballistic missile in its boost phase.

Lehner said the missiles were heavily instrumented during the test, but otherwise conditions were "pretty realistic."

Raytheon Missile Systems, which developed the NCADE, said it "provides a revolutionary, low-cost approach to interceptor development and acquisition."

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Now can you imagine Global Hawks loitering at 90k feet off North Korea's coastline :twisted:
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Post by K. A. Pital »

Yeah, just heard about that.

We clearly need new nuclear weapons. Let's dust off those coastal city-decimating nuclear torpedos from 1960s.
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Post by MKSheppard »

The one with onboard tritium reactors to keep the nukes in the torpedo topped off?
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Post by Chris OFarrell »

Well its not impossible, but getting tactical fighters close enough to ICBM silos to intercept missiles being fired sounds like a rather risky idea. I mean wouldn't it be easier if you are that close just to BOMB the silo?

I could see the missile technology being useful in certain areas against SRBM's though.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Actually, the range of 100 miles is from an F-16 at around what 25,000-30,000 feet.

Now imagine it being dropped from a Global Hawk loitering at 90,000 feet.
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Post by White Haven »

Wouldn't launching from that high an altitude complicate the intercept window? This's a boost-phase program, and that doesn't last forever.
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Post by Stuart »

White Haven wrote:Wouldn't launching from that high an altitude complicate the intercept window? This's a boost-phase program, and that doesn't last forever.
Not really, the ICBM is coming up, the interceptor missile is going down. That makes for a pretty neat solution. This whole concept has other implications as well. Firing from 90,000 feet means that the atmosphere-skimming re-entry vehicle is well within its intercept parameters - and since we are using a missile that was designed to intercept a manoeuvering target, the limited degree of manoeuver allowed by an atmosphere skimmer isn't of much consequence. So the atmosphere-skimmer has just gone bye-bye.
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Post by Androsphinx »

Wait a minute. Didn't the Russians just complete, at great expense, an atmosphere-skimming ICBM-model (the RS24?) which they claimed could evade any existing or projected ABM programme?
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Post by Stuart »

Androsphinx wrote:Wait a minute. Didn't the Russians just complete, at great expense, an atmosphere-skimming ICBM-model (the RS24?) which they claimed could evade any existing or projected ABM programme?
Why yes, so they did. What a peculiar coincidence.........
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Post by Androsphinx »

Stuart wrote:
Androsphinx wrote:Wait a minute. Didn't the Russians just complete, at great expense, an atmosphere-skimming ICBM-model (the RS24?) which they claimed could evade any existing or projected ABM programme?
Why yes, so they did. What a peculiar coincidence.........
Just checking. But this seems to be a fairly obvious technique. Why were the Russians so confident? Don't they look a little egged-upon-the-face now?
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Post by Androsphinx »

And might the above have had anything to do with the decision that next-generation bombers will carry nukes?
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Post by Ritterin Sophia »

Androsphinx wrote:
Stuart wrote:
Androsphinx wrote:Wait a minute. Didn't the Russians just complete, at great expense, an atmosphere-skimming ICBM-model (the RS24?) which they claimed could evade any existing or projected ABM programme?
Why yes, so they did. What a peculiar coincidence.........
Just checking. But this seems to be a fairly obvious technique. Why were the Russians so confident? Don't they look a little egged-upon-the-face now?
That's his point, everything serves a purpose, and it would seem the purpose of this was to show that the Russians don't know as much as they think they do.
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Post by Xess »

This is so cool! Since I started reading Stuart's posts I've become a huge fan of bombers and ABM systems, to my shame I once thought ABM systems would make the world less safe. :oops: It brings me great joy to see this kind of development.
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Post by Androsphinx »

General Schatten wrote:
Androsphinx wrote:
Stuart wrote: Why yes, so they did. What a peculiar coincidence.........
Just checking. But this seems to be a fairly obvious technique. Why were the Russians so confident? Don't they look a little egged-upon-the-face now?
That's his point, everything serves a purpose, and it would seem the purpose of this was to show that the Russians don't know as much as they think they do.
That much I understood. My question was -why- the Russians didn't consider this, which does seem to be a readily-apparent and current-technology method of limited ABM.
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Post by K. A. Pital »

ABM can give you the ability to kick the crap out of nuclear states, especially the smaller ones, without fearing retaliation. That's the opposite side to the destruction of "one flies, all fly" rule.
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Post by DavidEC »

How about this: Get something with decent payload and verrrry long range (turboprops?), use the biggest interceptors you can put into rotary launchers, put them into it and have those patrol near troublespots. Not only can you deploy this system to various places faster than ground missiles or SM-3 equipped ships, the missiles will have awesome ranges due to the existing altitude, thin atmosphere and launch speed giving them a head start over SAMs. An F-16, which as I understand it has pretty short legs when carrying a good payload, doesn't sound like the best sort of patrol craft for this.

Also, are air-launched AMRAAMs and Sidewinders capable of intercepting so-called carrier-killer supersonic AShMs?
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Post by Stuart »

Androsphinx wrote:And might the above have had anything to do with the decision that next-generation bombers will carry nukes?
There's a lot of implications to this. One is that the process of formulating the design of a successor to the Ohio Class SSBNs has just started. The way ABM is spreading (by the way, India has just completed its second successful test of its indigenous ABM system - so far they're two for two) the question is, 'what do replace an SSBN with?

Another SSBN with ballistic missiles?
A strategic cruise missile carrier?
Something else?

It's not an easy problem to answer. A manned bomber equipped with a heavy battery of supersonic or stealthy cruise missiles (with cruise missiles there is speed, there is altitude and there is stealth, pick two) has a lot of advantages because it can fire form unpredictable positions and adopt unusual flight profiles.

The problem is that means the Navy giving strategic deterrence back to teh Air Force and they won't like that.

There will be much blood shed in the corridors of the Pentagon over this isse (bureaucratically speaking of course).
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Post by Stuart »

DavidEC wrote:How about this: Get something with decent payload and verrrry long range (turboprops?), use the biggest interceptors you can put into rotary launchers, put them into it and have those patrol near troublespots. Not only can you deploy this system to various places faster than ground missiles or SM-3 equipped ships, the missiles will have awesome ranges due to the existing altitude, thin atmosphere and launch speed giving them a head start over SAMs. An F-16, which as I understand it has pretty short legs when carrying a good payload, doesn't sound like the best sort of patrol craft for this.
A very good idea. There are some demonstration-of-principle plans for just that floating around right now. Don't be surprised to see some study contracts and preliminary design work funded.
Also, are air-launched AMRAAMs and Sidewinders capable of intercepting so-called carrier-killer supersonic AShMs?
Depends which type. The Aeroballistics are still a nasty problem (those are the ones that fly in at very high altitude then dive vertically onto their targets). Some of the others are interceptable, especially by AIM-120.

By the way, have you noticed how all the talk about coming in through the treetops has gone? Now, the standard line is come in very high, very fast. Doesn't that sound familiar? :lol:
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Post by DavidEC »

Are aeroballistics the sort of thing ESSM was designed for then? What I'm thinking is that it's much better to shoot the bastard(s) down as far away from the CVBG as possible. Would the bigass SM-3 be useful in such situations?

Hmmm, the joke is currently beyond me, sorry. :( Something about ballistic missiles in general?
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Post by Kane Starkiller »

Stuart wrote:with cruise missiles there is speed, there is altitude and there is stealth, pick two
I've heard that US will retire it's AGM-129 stealth cruise missile. Does that mean they are picking speed and altitude? Is there a replacement?
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

I like the idea of a submarine force armed with hypersonic surface-skimming nuclear cruise missiles. If I'm not mistaken, by the time anyone sees them coming it's too late to do anything but say a quick prayer. :twisted:
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Post by MKSheppard »

DavidEC wrote:Hmmm, the joke is currently beyond me, sorry. :( Something about ballistic missiles in general?
If you fly high and fast, you'll be shot down by SAMs :D
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Post by K. A. Pital »

I like the idea of a submarine force armed with hypersonic surface-skimming nuclear cruise missiles. If I'm not mistaken, by the time anyone sees them coming it's too late to do anything but say a quick prayer.
I think we should push for both conventional (long-range) nuclear torpedoes for city destruction and nuclear-tipped "Shkval"-type hypersonic torps for short-range action against both naval and coastal targets.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

We need SLAM back. Come on, everyone loves it and I've been itching to have an excuse to bring it back, improved for better commie wasting abilities!
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

Stas Bush wrote:I think we should push for both conventional (long-range) nuclear torpedoes for city destruction and nuclear-tipped "Shkval"-type hypersonic torps for short-range action against both naval and coastal targets.
The problem with torpedoes is that they cannot affect targets that are inland. Cruise missiles can be launched out of torpedo tubes, the US's Tomahawk for example.
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