NBC to Leno writers - Fuck you!

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Post by Sriad »

Uraniun235 wrote:
Bug-Eyed Earl wrote:This is why as an aspiring screenwriter I have been saying that I would gladly take the extra dividends the WGA is trying to get, but not like this, not at this cost.
Okay. Where would you draw the line at deeming a strike acceptable?
Indeed: the reason why this strike is so important is that whatever contract is eventually created will indirectly effect all future forms of media. The immediate problem is that the writers aren't receiving residuals for internet (and, I believe, DVD) distribution of their work, and the studios don't want them to. If they don't take a hard-line now, they could also lose out on god-knows-what distribution vectors that might exist 15 years from now.

If revenue streams move away from normal TV and theater viewing to the internet, video iPods, box set DVD sales, etc the rights being disputed at this moment could become more important than all current residuals.

Furthermore, it represents a philosophical point: is there any legitimate reason the writers should no longer be paid for their share of ownership in a work when it is transmitted in one medium rather than another? If they weren't paid a share for one particular medium wouldn't that be a pretty fucking strong incentive for the studios to push that medium and maximize profits?
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Post by Havok »

Do people scab during this type of strike?
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Post by Flagg »

Sriad wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:
Bug-Eyed Earl wrote:This is why as an aspiring screenwriter I have been saying that I would gladly take the extra dividends the WGA is trying to get, but not like this, not at this cost.
Okay. Where would you draw the line at deeming a strike acceptable?
Indeed: the reason why this strike is so important is that whatever contract is eventually created will indirectly effect all future forms of media. The immediate problem is that the writers aren't receiving residuals for internet (and, I believe, DVD) distribution of their work, and the studios don't want them to. If they don't take a hard-line now, they could also lose out on god-knows-what distribution vectors that might exist 15 years from now.

If revenue streams move away from normal TV and theater viewing to the internet, video iPods, box set DVD sales, etc the rights being disputed at this moment could become more important than all current residuals.

Furthermore, it represents a philosophical point: is there any legitimate reason the writers should no longer be paid for their share of ownership in a work when it is transmitted in one medium rather than another? If they weren't paid a share for one particular medium wouldn't that be a pretty fucking strong incentive for the studios to push that medium and maximize profits?
Right now the get $.04 on every DVD sold. They wanted $.08, but they dropped that demand on the first day of negotiations.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

havokeff wrote:Do people scab during this type of strike?
I know Carson Daily is writing stuff for his show at the moment.
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Post by Flagg »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
havokeff wrote:Do people scab during this type of strike?
I know Carson Daily is writing stuff for his show at the moment.
So, more reason not to watch? :lol:
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Flagg wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:
havokeff wrote:Do people scab during this type of strike?
I know Carson Daily is writing stuff for his show at the moment.
So, more reason not to watch? :lol:
Do you really NEED more? The man can make RickRolling un-funny.
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Post by Lisa »

As I understand it, right now writers, actors and other staff are expected to produce internet media for free. I don't begrudge their due, nor do I believe they are whiny fucks for striking. It's not that they're trying to get a bigger share of the pie, they just want a share. 2.5% sounds pretty reasonable to me. 2.5c on the dollar. If anyone is being unreasonable it's the stupidly rich media cartels that get rich off other peoples work and ideas.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Darth Wong wrote:Let's be honest though: the writers are less easily replaced than technicians. You can often tell when there have been major changes in the writing staff of a show because the quality goes downhill. Talented writers are a valuable commodity. In contrast, you could replace every lighting technician and not notice a damned thing.
Actually, most shows on TV are utter shit. There's a reason why my TV watching habits only involve:

Neo BSG
Hitler Channel -- Modern Marvels makes even the most boring subject like nail manufacture awesome
Military Channel -- Alternative to Hitler Channel
and a few others.
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Post by Uraniun235 »

Actually, in the television business and from a business perspective, a talented writer is one who can make the most money for the studio, which may not necessarily serve your personal esoteric tastes in programming. Image
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Post by MKSheppard »

Uraniun235 wrote:Actually, in the television business and from a business perspective, a talented writer is one who can make the most money for the studio, which may not necessarily serve your personal esoteric tastes in programming.
If that's true, then why have all the major networks been steadily losing viewership?

Maybe because people get tired of "Oh hai, another sitcom set with an ambigiously gay man and his single friend who doesn't know that the guy is gay -- many lulz to be had at bars picking up women"; and no longer watch them?

Even the newer crime dramas end up being full of shit; CSI, "oh hai look, someone coughed on a cup, we'll use this to convict him of some random crime" as opposed to good old Law and Order with Lenny Briscoe.
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Post by Uraniun235 »

MKSheppard wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:Actually, in the television business and from a business perspective, a talented writer is one who can make the most money for the studio, which may not necessarily serve your personal esoteric tastes in programming.
If that's true, then why have all the major networks been steadily losing viewership?

Maybe because people get tired of "Oh hai, another sitcom set with an ambigiously gay man and his single friend who doesn't know that the guy is gay -- many lulz to be had at bars picking up women"; and no longer watch them?

Even the newer crime dramas end up being full of shit; CSI, "oh hai look, someone coughed on a cup, we'll use this to convict him of some random crime" as opposed to good old Law and Order with Lenny Briscoe.
My god, you're right; talented writers must be those who don't make the most money for the studio! It all makes sense now!

Because obviously, there can't be a lot of untalented writers out there which would make talented writers all the more precious.

And obviously, the quality of new shows falls solely on the shoulders of writers, never on those of network executives who actually decide what shows to buy and what shows not to.

Right?
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

BTW has anyone seen the clips of the guys from MS3K making a false protest picket of the Writers Guild HQ?
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

The Yosemite Bear wrote:BTW has anyone seen the clips of the guys from MS3K making a false protest picket of the Writers Guild HQ?
Got a link? That sounds hilarious.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8qM3QNqT48

produced by the guys from MS3K
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Post by Rye »

MKSheppard wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:Actually, in the television business and from a business perspective, a talented writer is one who can make the most money for the studio, which may not necessarily serve your personal esoteric tastes in programming.
If that's true, then why have all the major networks been steadily losing viewership?
The internet, TV on demand, hell, even mobile phones and PSPs can show you a decent amount of downloaded footage. You can edit a 50 minute episode down to 1-2 minutes if you're ultra thrifty and sell that to the lucrative phone market.
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Post by Xisiqomelir »

havokeff wrote:Do people scab during this type of strike?
If you wanted to do a little on the side once.

If you want to make a career as a writer though, it's a bad idea. The strike will eventually end, and then you'll get canned and never work again because all the writing jobs are guild jobs.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

Well If your really good you could find work with George Lucas, he is to my knowledge the only producer/director that's anti-union enough to hire non guild writters frequently.
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The Yosemite Bear wrote:Well If your really good you could find work with George Lucas, he is to my knowledge the only producer/director that's anti-union enough to hire non guild writters frequently.
Didn't they fine him for not putting opening credits in ESB?
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Post by Gaidin »

Androsphinx wrote:
The Yosemite Bear wrote:Well If your really good you could find work with George Lucas, he is to my knowledge the only producer/director that's anti-union enough to hire non guild writters frequently.
Didn't they fine him for not putting opening credits in ESB?
They whined and bitched about his opening to star wars not including names, he refused to change, and then he had to find a non-guild director. I think quitting the guild was somewhere in there as well.

A fine may have been as well it doesn't jump out for memory.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

Androsphinx wrote:
The Yosemite Bear wrote:Well If your really good you could find work with George Lucas, he is to my knowledge the only producer/director that's anti-union enough to hire non guild writters frequently.
Didn't they fine him for not putting opening credits in ESB?
yes, and he then quit the Directors guild.

he refused to pay the fine, and started using non-guild directors ever since then.
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Post by Big Orange »

MKSheppard wrote: Even the newer crime dramas end up being full of shit; CSI, "oh hai look, someone coughed on a cup, we'll use this to convict him of some random crime" as opposed to good old Law and Order with Lenny Briscoe.
CSI: Miami is completely crap, CSI: NY is watchable yet pretty generic, but the original CSI is still a very good show, and NCIS is a guilty pleasure - however I never quite got into Law and Order or that other L&O spin off fronted by that cockroach from MIB, while Jerry Orbach is long dead. :(

As for the writer's strike itself - I mostly blame the media studios for allowing this to happen, and making their petty hang-ups a big problem that the rest of us have to deal with due to their lack of basic common sense, and their plain greed.

And it's funny that this current BS the studios have done has everything to do with TV shows being published on DVD and Internet downloads, when these same clowns are likely losing millions in potential publishing revenues to pirate DVD distributors and illegal downloads of their TV shows they refuse to officially publish, due to their nickel n' dime mindset preventing them from paying the music copyright (although the record companies fucking suck as well, by demanding more money from the studios after they already paid for the music content to be on their TV shows in the first place).

The studio executives' lack of real insight and sense of reasonable compromise is ruining everything, why didn't they simply pay that low percentage for the writers and record labels, then moved on? But no, the suits had to be spiteful, greedy little pricks, and made everybody pay for it. :roll:
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Post by Kanastrous »

A dimension to this that a lot of people are missing, is that the deal eventually negotiated between the WGA and the producers, will have a direct impact upon medical benefits, retirement coverage and pension contributions for all of the non-WGA-members of other IA guilds and unions.

When the WGA (alternately SAG; to a much lesser degree the DGA) negotiates a percentage return on a given distribution channel, it forms the basis for negotiations for the IA, etc, too.

So while non-WGA union production people are out of work - and, we're not all out of work; features green-lit before the strike, and projects in-production, continue to move ahead - they will collectively benefit in the long run, from whatever concessions the writers manage to squeeze out of the Producers' Guild.

Plus, this strike was seen coming, a long way off. There was a major surge in development and production work in the year-to-18-months leading up to the strike, as producers tried to build up as much of a content-cushion against a possible strike, as they could. So people who were working, had the opportunity to stash away decent $$$ against a few lean months (during which there is unemployment insurance available). And people who weren't working...well, if you weren't working during a hugely busy all-hands-on-deck period, then a strike isn't really going to alter your employment status, at all.
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Post by Big Orange »

Kanastrous wrote: Plus, this strike was seen coming, a long way off. There was a major surge in development and production work in the year-to-18-months leading up to the strike, as producers tried to build up as much of a content-cushion against a possible strike, as they could.
Then why didn't the producers and studio executives fold to avoid the bigger problem now if they saw it coming? Not only have they severly alienated their writers and studio crew, they've encouraged several advertising agencies to pull out.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

CBS is now talking about using re-runs of CABLE TV shows starting in January....

wait does this mean that things are working in reverse.

and does this mean that Rome or Tombstone aren't far behind?

and how will they edit that for broadcast?
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Post by Redleader34 »

Yahoo News, from Reuters wrote:NBC refunds advertisers as ratings plunge 1 hour, 44 minutes ago



Fourth-ranked broadcaster NBC has quietly begun reimbursing advertisers an average of $500,000 each for failing to reach guaranteed ratings levels, the first time a network has taken such a step in years, media buyers said.

Networks usually offer make-goods -- free advertising slots -- in the event of such shortfalls. But NBC has none to give. In fact, no broadcast network has much ad inventory left between now and year's end -- except for, perhaps, a handful of units the week between Christmas and New Year's, and that doesn't do much for advertisers chasing holiday shoppers.

CBS, ABC and Fox also are doling out make-goods, primarily for the first quarter. They have blamed softness on a new ratings formula, but media agencies disagree. None of the networks would comment.

The networks' problems emerged even before the Writers Guild of America went on strike November 5. The networks had enough first-run shows to get them through November, and repeats and replacement programming will not begin in earnest until January -- when their problems will likely start to worsen.

Among the Big Four networks, NBC has the most serious ad shortfall, as its primetime ratings are down most dramatically. Meanwhile, none of its new series this season have caught on with viewers. Compounding buyers' angst about NBC is the network's plan to schedule more reality shows, including "Celebrity Apprentice" and "American Gladiators."

"We're trying to understand NBC's recent moves," Starcom Entertainment exec vp Laura Caraccioli-Davis said. "We are concerned that it might be thinking about adopting a programming strategy like some of its sister cable networks. 'American Gladiators' and even some of the shows they have in development, like 'Knight Rider,' are remakes being dusted off rather than coming up with new creations.

"NBC used to be the upscale, quality network," she added. "We have come to expect quality, iconic programming. Maybe they are searching for the reality hit they don't have, their own 'American Idol.' But too much reality just doesn't play well with advertisers."

NBC program planning president Vince Manze countered that the network will air more scripted shows in the first quarter than it did a year earlier, so the perception that NBC is moving more heavily into reality is wrong.

"We will have about 85 hours of original, scripted, first-run programming in the first quarter," Manze said, citing the return of dramas "Law & Order," "Law & Order: Criminal Intent" (which previously aired on NBC's sister cable net USA Network) and "Medium."

In February, NBC will premiere midseason drama "Lipstick Jungle." It also has first-run episodes of "Law & Order: SVU," "ER," "Chuck," "Friday Night Lights," "Las Vegas," "Scrubs" and "My Name Is Earl" yet to air.

Magna Global audience analysis exec vp Steve Sternberg said he saw no problem with NBC airing a reality block on a low-rated night like Saturday or even during the week if the production values were high or if it replaced other reality programming. However, "if it replaces midweek scripted hours, it could have a negative impact" on ratings and audience quality, he said.

Reality programs featuring high production values, including Fox's "American Idol," CBS' "Survivor" and "Amazing Race" and ABC's "Dancing With the Stars" and "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition," draw sizable audiences each week.

Still, one network executive charged that audiences for those shows are "borrowed" viewers. "A majority of those viewers come in for that show and then leave," the executive said.

Added MediaVest senior vp group director Ed Gentner: "No one (advertiser or agency) wants to see too much reality programming on TV. But broadcast television has changed, and reality is part of today's landscape."

Reuters/Hollywood Reporter
Well, now it seems that NBC, ironicly enough is facing the most problems from this strike.
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