Scouts evicted over gay descrimination

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Scouts evicted over gay descrimination

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Scouts evicted over gay discrimination

Ian Urbina in Philadelphia
December 8, 2007

FOR three years the Philadelphia council of the Boy Scouts of America held its ground. It resisted the city's request to change its discriminatory policy towards gay people despite threats that if it did not do so, the city would evict the group from a municipal building where the Scouts have resided practically rent free since 1928.

Hailed as the birthplace of the Boy Scouts, the Beaux Arts building is the seat of the seventh-largest chapter of the organisation and the first of the more than 300 council service centres built by the Scouts in the US over the past century.

Municipal officials said the clash stemmed from a duty to defend civil rights and an obligation to abide by local law that bars taxpayer support for any group that discriminates. Boy Scout officials said it was about preserving their culture, protecting the right of private organisations to remain exclusive, and defending traditions such as requiring members to swear an oath of duty to God and prohibiting membership by anyone who is openly homosexual.

This week the Boy Scouts made their last stand and lost.

"At the end of the day, you cannot be in a city-owned facility being subsidised by the taxpayers and not have language in your lease that talks about non-discrimination," said a councillor, Darrell Clarke, who represents the district where the building is located. "Negotiations are over."

He said talks ended this week when the deadline passed for the chapter to change its policy; on June 1 the group will be evicted.

"Since we were founded, we believe that open homosexuality would be inconsistent with the values that we want to communicate with our leaders," said Gregg Shields, a national spokesman for the Boy Scouts. "A belief in God is also mentioned in the Scout oath. We believe that those values are important. Tradition is important. Our mission is to instil those values in Scouts and help them make good choices over their lifetimes."

In 2000 the Supreme Court decided a caseinvolving an openly gay Scout who was barred from serving as troop leader. The court ruled in a 5-4 decision that, as a private organisation, the group had a First Amendment right to set its membership rules.

The issue became a concern in Philadelphia in May 2003 when the national Boy Scouts held their annual meeting in the city.

During the conference, a local Scout challenged the organisation's policies by announcing on television that he was gay and that he was a devoted member of the organisation. He was promptly dismissed by the local chapter, which is called the Cradle of Liberty Council.

Local Scout leaders said they had tried hard to find a compromise between the city and their national office.

In 2005 the chapter was poised to agree on a policy statement adopted by the Boy Scouts in New York, which affirmed that "prejudice, intolerance and unlawful discrimination in any form are unacceptable".

But last year city officials wrote to the Cradle of Liberty Council, saying the statement could not be reconciled with the city's anti-discrimination ordinance.

The New York Times
How long before the right wing start babbling about political correctness going mad? :roll:
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Post by Darth Wong »

Not long, since they have always maintained that "religious freedom" implicitly includes the words "taxpayer-subsidized".
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Post by Guardsman Bass »

I still feel kind of sorry for the chapter itself. It's not as if they can really embrace homosexuals without permission from the higher-up levels in the organization, so they were caught in a kind of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. The blame should really be on the National Office for continuing to dig in their heels on this issue.
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Post by Metatwaddle »

Guardsman Bass wrote:I still feel kind of sorry for the chapter itself. It's not as if they can really embrace homosexuals without permission from the higher-up levels in the organization, so they were caught in a kind of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. The blame should really be on the National Office for continuing to dig in their heels on this issue.
Yeah, the Boy Scouts of Philadelphia were perfectly willing to be non-discriminatory in order to make use of city buildings, but the National Organization threatened to revoke their charter.

I still think the city did the right thing, though.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Hailed as the birthplace of the Boy Scouts, the Beaux Arts building is the seat of the seventh-largest chapter of the organisation and the first of the more than 300 council service centres built by the Scouts in the US over the past century.
Where the FUCK do the Boy Scouts of America get off saying that Phildelphia is the birthplace of Scouting? The worldwide organization was founded by Lord Baden Powell, a BRITISH military officer. Hear that, Yanks? BRITISH. Your precious "Boy Scouts of America" traditions are nothing more than a localized variant upon a worldwide movement, infused with typically American fundie bullshit and homophobia.
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Post by Tsyroc »

Discombobulated wrote:Yeah, the Boy Scouts of Philadelphia were perfectly willing to be non-discriminatory in order to make use of city buildings, but the National Organization threatened to revoke their charter.

I still think the city did the right thing, though.
I hadn't heard of the national council doing shit like that. I know they were sticking to the "reverent" part of scouting to be against gays and atheists but I didn't know they were going after individual councils or troops who didn't adhere to their strict bs.
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Post by Enforcer Talen »

Darth Wong wrote:
Hailed as the birthplace of the Boy Scouts, the Beaux Arts building is the seat of the seventh-largest chapter of the organisation and the first of the more than 300 council service centres built by the Scouts in the US over the past century.
Where the FUCK do the Boy Scouts of America get off saying that Phildelphia is the birthplace of Scouting? The worldwide organization was founded by Lord Baden Powell, a BRITISH military officer. Hear that, Yanks? BRITISH. Your precious "Boy Scouts of America" traditions are nothing more than a localized variant upon a worldwide movement, infused with typically American fundie bullshit and homophobia.
Yes, we are quite aware. Its in all the boy scout books Ive ever seen.

. . . Not quite sure why they phrased it that way though. Maybe the leaders haven't read the book in a while?
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Darth Wong wrote:
Hailed as the birthplace of the Boy Scouts, the Beaux Arts building is the seat of the seventh-largest chapter of the organisation and the first of the more than 300 council service centres built by the Scouts in the US over the past century.
Where the FUCK do the Boy Scouts of America get off saying that Phildelphia is the birthplace of Scouting? The worldwide organization was founded by Lord Baden Powell, a BRITISH military officer. Hear that, Yanks? BRITISH. Your precious "Boy Scouts of America" traditions are nothing more than a localized variant upon a worldwide movement, infused with typically American fundie bullshit and homophobia.
Does anyone know for sure where the actual "birthplace" of the Boy Scouts of America is? I'll be damned if I can find any reference to Philadelphia other than numerous websites carrying the same text of the story linked in the OP. Until I see otherwise, I think this article may be in error. When I was in Boy Scouts, we all heard the story of how Baden Powell was indeed the inspiration for W. D. Boyce who then founded scouting in the US. I've never heard that Philadelphia had any special connection to Scouting in terms of founding. I believe the first BSA office opened in New York City?
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Its hard to answer, because there were many scouting troops organized prior to the incorporation of BSA. BSA was incorporated in DC in 1910, but the first office was set in New York, in the YMCA building on 5th Avenue. They were chartered by congress in 1916.

At that time there were already a number of different scouting troops across the country which would be eventually folded into BSA. Even today, all American scouts are taught about Lord Bayden Powell and the various people he inspired who brought back scouting to America. Its no surprise to us.

I have no idea why Philadelphia claims to be the birthplace of scouting in America.
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Darth Wong wrote:
Hailed as the birthplace of the Boy Scouts, the Beaux Arts building is the seat of the seventh-largest chapter of the organisation and the first of the more than 300 council service centres built by the Scouts in the US over the past century.
Where the FUCK do the Boy Scouts of America get off saying that Phildelphia is the birthplace of Scouting? The worldwide organization was founded by Lord Baden Powell, a BRITISH military officer. Hear that, Yanks? BRITISH. Your precious "Boy Scouts of America" traditions are nothing more than a localized variant upon a worldwide movement, infused with typically American fundie bullshit and homophobia.
It's just a claim they've started to make once this issue came up with the Philadelphia City Council to make it more poignant and try to gather more support. It's total bullshit, it's just the first of their goddamned community centres.

The best part about Baden-Powell (the Defender of Mafeking, most notably. I doubt any modern scouts know what the hell Mafeking is) is that he was almost certainly homosexual himself.
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: The best part about Baden-Powell (the Defender of Mafeking, most notably. I doubt any modern scouts know what the hell Mafeking is) is that he was almost certainly homosexual himself.
I was one, and I sure know. I never once heard one single word on a ban on gays while I was in scouting; but then all the local troops didn’t give a shit about even the requirement that all scouts be religiously involved either. That requirement might be old, but no one paid any attention too it at all until a relatively recent change in the boy scouts national leadership, resulting in a pack of morons making it front page news.
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Post by Havok »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Its hard to answer, because there were many scouting troops organized prior to the incorporation of BSA. BSA was incorporated in DC in 1910, but the first office was set in New York, in the YMCA building on 5th Avenue. They were chartered by congress in 1916.

At that time there were already a number of different scouting troops across the country which would be eventually folded into BSA. Even today, all American scouts are taught about Lord Bayden Powell and the various people he inspired who brought back scouting to America. Its no surprise to us.

I have no idea why Philadelphia claims to be the birthplace of scouting in America.
Uh... Does anyone else think it is funny that the first office was in the YMCA building? :lol:
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

havokeff wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Its hard to answer, because there were many scouting troops organized prior to the incorporation of BSA. BSA was incorporated in DC in 1910, but the first office was set in New York, in the YMCA building on 5th Avenue. They were chartered by congress in 1916.

At that time there were already a number of different scouting troops across the country which would be eventually folded into BSA. Even today, all American scouts are taught about Lord Bayden Powell and the various people he inspired who brought back scouting to America. Its no surprise to us.

I have no idea why Philadelphia claims to be the birthplace of scouting in America.
Uh... Does anyone else think it is funny that the first office was in the YMCA building? :lol:
Where else are young men gonna go? :-P Alot of the early founders of Scouts were involved in YMCA.
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Post by FSTargetDrone »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Its hard to answer, because there were many scouting troops organized prior to the incorporation of BSA. BSA was incorporated in DC in 1910, but the first office was set in New York, in the YMCA building on 5th Avenue. They were chartered by congress in 1916.

At that time there were already a number of different scouting troops across the country which would be eventually folded into BSA. Even today, all American scouts are taught about Lord Bayden Powell and the various people he inspired who brought back scouting to America. Its no surprise to us.
Yeah. I haven't been a Boy Scout since the 8th grade (back in 1989) but there was mention of Powell in the Scout Handbook and in Boys' Life and other publications. I assume and hope it's still talked about today, but I have no idea.
I have no idea why Philadelphia claims to be the birthplace of scouting in America.
If Philadelphia has made some claim as being the "birthplace" of the BSA, it's news to me. Duchess' point above might be right: someone in the City Council may well have made such a statement for political purposes to help sway the decision on booting the scouts from their near rent-free location. If this is so, that the claim was made at all, it certainly appears to be wrong.
Sea Skimmer wrote:I was one, and I sure know. I never once heard one single word on a ban on gays while I was in scouting; but then all the local troops didn’t give a shit about even the requirement that all scouts be religiously involved either. That requirement might be old, but no one paid any attention too it at all until a relatively recent change in the boy scouts national leadership, resulting in a pack of morons making it front page news.
My old troop (319 Wayne, PA) was attached to the Catholic school I attended, but even then, religion as a topic of discussion was essentially nil. I can't recall even attending mass as a troop more than a handful of times, and that would only be on weekend camping trips. I was at my doubting/drifting towards agnosticism (before ultimate atheism) stage by then and I made a point to leave out the "God" part during the Scout Oath:
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to (God and) my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.
We said that oath in a small room with the leaders present and no one ever challenged me to say "God."

The times may have changed, however. I have no read idea how religiously-infused scouting is these days. It probably varies widely, depending on where in the country each troop is located. Something tells me the Bible belt is a bit more stringent, but that's just a guess. :D
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Honestly, from what I remember, the issue of atheism and homosexuality in the boy scouts has not been an issue historically. These motherfuckers are liars. It was not an issue until the religious right (particularly the fucking mormons) took over the organization and began their purges.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

That's because it's the Boy Scouts of AMERICA which is now a subsidiary of the Mormons. They deny that the British scouts existed before them.
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Post by wolveraptor »

The Yosemite Bear wrote:That's because it's the Boy Scouts of AMERICA which is now a subsidiary of the Mormons.
Wait, really? That's fucking horrendous. The Mormons? When did this happen?
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Post by Havok »

wolveraptor wrote:
The Yosemite Bear wrote:That's because it's the Boy Scouts of AMERICA which is now a subsidiary of the Mormons.
Wait, really? That's fucking horrendous. The Mormons? When did this happen?
Just back track to when they started kicking out gay kids and firing gay scout leaders.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

wolveraptor wrote:
The Yosemite Bear wrote:That's because it's the Boy Scouts of AMERICA which is now a subsidiary of the Mormons.
Wait, really? That's fucking horrendous. The Mormons? When did this happen?
Back in the 1980s, when Reagan was in charge.
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Post by Qwerty 42 »

wolveraptor wrote:
The Yosemite Bear wrote:That's because it's the Boy Scouts of AMERICA which is now a subsidiary of the Mormons.
Wait, really? That's fucking horrendous. The Mormons? When did this happen?
I'm not sure. I've been told by people that the Mormon church heavily sponsors Scouting on a national level, which gives them a lot of say in the policies and beliefs of the organization. I don't know if that's true though.

Although Philadelphia did the right thing, as others have said, I just wish National would bugger off. On the bright side, Roy Williams, the Scout Executive, recently resigned. Maybe some change will come.
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Here's a fun little story about Mormons and the Boy Scouts of America from 1999:
Boy Scouts Maintains a Firm Hold on Religious Foundation at its Heart

by Mark O'Keefe

The Oregonian

Sunday, July 4, 1999

Mormons are a Driving Force
in the Program

Camp Baldwin -- Justin Hall and Miles McFarland learned how to rescue a drowning swimmer last week, taking turns throwing a lifesaving ring into Lake Hanel.

Miles, dripping and shivering after an encounter with 67-degree water in the chilly altitude of the Mount Hood National Forest, didn't seem to mind. For the 12-year-old, the Boy Scouts of America is about "a lot of boys having fun."

Scouting is also about something that has put the organization into hot water: a requirement to believe in God.

Such belief is OK for a private religious organization, argues the American Civil Liberties Union in separate lawsuits filed in Portland and Chicago, but it's unconstitutional when the Boy Scouts are allowed to recruit in public schools.

Win or lose, the cases could damage the friendly relationship Scouting has with schools, potentially reducing membership, now at 170,000 in Oregon and Washington and 4.8 million nationally. At a time when moral absolutes are not as popular as they once were, the lawsuits could also alter public perception of an 89-year-old institution that's as American as fireworks on the Fourth of July.

For many, the Boy Scouts conjure up images of uniformed boys helping elderly women cross the street or of young men in the wilderness learning to start a fire without matches. Scouting's core values are so traditional it's as if Norman Rockwell painted them on a canvas.

According to the Scout Law, "A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent."

It's that last one that has landed the Boy Scouts, and school districts that support them, in court.

Multnomah County Circuit Judge Joseph Ceniceros will decide the ACLU case against Portland schools later this summer.

But much is clear already. Unlike the Girl Scouts, the Boy Scouts aren't about to make duty to God optional in their oath. Religion will continue to be a fundamental part of Scouting, whether a boy is Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jewish.

A line has been drawn in the dirt around the campfire.

"Will we change?" said Larry Otto, executive director of the Cascade Pacific Council, who is in charge of Scouting in Northwest Oregon and Southwest Washington. "I think we'd self-destruct if we changed. That would be like taking Jesus out of the church. It's at the core of who we are."

In some cases where the Scouts have been sued for not allowing gays and atheists, the organization has argued it can do so because it is a private, religious organization. The Scouts have won most of those.

But the cases in Portland and Chicago are different because they target schools, not the Scouts. In Portland, Nancy Powell, an atheist, says school officials made a big mistake when they allowed Cub Scout recruiters into Harvey Scott Elementary School, which her son attends.

Powell cites the Oregon Constitution, which restricts religion in public schools more stringently than the federal Constitution. She isn't seeking monetary damages, just to keep the Boy Scouts from recruiting boys during school hours.


Churches at the backbone

That could be devastating to Scouting, Otto said. Schools in Oregon and across the country have routinely allowed recruiting pitches, which typically invite young boys to give Cub Scouts a try.

"You tell me how I tell a kid about Scouting," Otto said. "Put an ad in the newspaper? That won't do it. Run an ad on the radio? That won't do it. Direct mail? Do you understand what that would cost?"

While Scouting depends on public schools, it also relies on religious organizations, particularly the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or Mormon Church. Of the roughly 1,600 Cub Scout packs, Boy Scout troops and Explorer posts in Northwest Oregon and Southwest Washington, 40 percent are sponsored by Mormons. Another 35 percent are sponsored by other religious organizations.

Nationally, the vast majority of support also comes from religious organizations, with the Mormon Church sponsoring almost three times as many Boy Scout groups as the second-ranked religious sponsor, the United Methodist Church.

Scouting is the official youth program for Mormons. Their commitment is so strong that local bishops routinely assign men to become Scout leaders as part of their spiritual calling.

At 658-acre Camp Baldwin, off of Oregon 35, southeast of Hood River and southwest of The Dalles, evidence of religious activity was easy to find last week:

* The six-day camp began with a chapel where a skit illustrated how being friendly to, instead of ridiculing, an improperly dressed Scout was following the Golden Rule.

* Some Mormon-sponsored troops held their own "sacrament services," where bread and water are passed and scripture read.

* Each time one of the 225 kids at camp recited the Scout oath, he raised three fingers for the Scout sign, promising on his honor, "to do my best, to do my duty to God and my country ... "

Eric Lovelin, 16, of Portland said he appreciates all this, because "I need to be religious all the time in order to keep my values up and my faith strong."

A Lutheran, Eric recalled a three-day hike near Mount Jefferson during which he shared a tent with a Catholic friend, Tim Finn, who, like Eric, is just short of attaining the Eagle Scout rank.


Reverence for all faiths

Heavy snowfall put them on their backs inside their tent, talking. The boys discovered that they disagree on some things but agree on essential Christian principles.

Scouting is nonsectarian, refusing to push a specific belief, but both boys said duty to God, however you define God, is essential.

"No one says you have to join Scouting," Tim said. "It's just an option. Plus, a larger percentage of people believe in God than don't."

Michael Levy is a 13-year-old member of Troop 544 in Gresham, sponsored by Mountainview Christian Church. Michael, who is Jewish, said he has been teased in school about his faith, but never in Boy Scouts.

"Every Boy Scout I know has been courteous and reverent of my beliefs," Levy says.

He includes Frank Johnson, 13, the chaplain's aide in Troop 544, an evangelical Christian who has been instructed to be as generic as possible when he prays before meals.

"We have different religions here," Frank said, "but we all believe in God."

The adult overseeing much of this is Barry LeVon, who doesn't attend church and was forced to examine his own spirituality when he became a Scout volunteer nine years ago.

His faith can be summarized, he said, by an experience of walking into a forest, looking at the trees and saying, "Thank you, Supreme Being, for our playground."

LeVon has concluded that the Scouts "aren't preaching religion, just acknowledging belief in God."


A little bit religious?

Yet when schools give access to groups espousing even a general belief in a deity, they find themselves in a constitutional mess, said Andrea Meyer, an ACLU lawyer who is arguing the case against the Portland school district.

"When it comes to entanglement of church and state in our public schools, being a little bit religious is like being a little bit pregnant," Meyer said.

Attorneys for Portland schools, whose fees are being paid in part by the Boy Scouts, have admitted the Scouts are religious. But they argue that the words spoken and Scouting materials distributed at Harvey Scott Elementary were not. In addition, the Boy Scouts are primarily about other things, the lawyers argue, pointing out that only four of 231 pages in the Cub Scout handbook refer to religion.

"There is a lot about Scouting other than the duty-to-God portion of the Boy Scout Oath," said attorney James Westwood. "There's also duty to country, duty to family and duty to self."

The main point, Westwood said, is that it should be left for the school board, not the judge, to decide whether Scouts should continue to have access. The board could decide to ban the Scouts, he said, just as it has banned military recruiters because they discriminate against gays and lesbians.

Otto, the regional Scout director, shook his head in befuddlement. In this season of societal soul-searching after school shootings in Springfield and Littleton, Colo., why would an organization with a proven record of forming young men with strong values be under such attack? It's no accident, he said, that several of the student heroes at Springfield and Littleton were Boy Scouts.*

Yet Scouting finds itself on the defensive because those values are entwined with religion, Otto said.

Otto said he knows there is nothing for the Boy Scouts to be ashamed of, but with these lawsuits, "somehow you feel unclean."
Note that's identified as a reprint of a newspaper article from The Oregonian.

This is news to me. And that article is from 1999. I do not recall anything at all like this religious infusion at any Scout activity I was ever involved in (mostly on the East coast, in PA, NJ, DE and MD). But I know, I really shouldn't be surprised. Hell, even my Catholic schooling wasn't rah-rah-religion all the time. This is just disturbing.

Anyway, aside from the overt "Mormon Conspiracy" websites, a further quick search finds all sorts of interesting articles about this connection between the Mormons and the BSA.

This site has more excerpts from newspapers and magazines:
Time Magazine, 5/1/00

But the Boy Scouts of America headquarters in Irving, Texas, is controlled by another faction in the debate, those for whom "morally straight" definitely means sexually straight. In recent years, members of the Mormon church have become a powerful force within scouting.

Today nearly 10% of the members of the Boy Scouts Advisory Council live in Salt Lake City, Utah, home of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints. The Latter-day Saints constitute less than 2% of the U.S. population but 21% of the boys in the core Boy Scouts program, more than any other group.

The Latter-day Saints have been instrumental in helping defeat pro-gay initiatives in at least three states. [Actually, and technically speaking, they helped to pass anti-gay initiatives.] In 1995 Jack Goaslind Jr., a prominent church member who currently sits on the Scouts advisory council, said the church "would withdraw our charter membership" if scouting were required to admit gays.

========

Salt Lake Tribune, 4/26/00

If the Boy Scouts of America is forced to accept gays as scoutmasters, the LDS Church will withdraw from the organization and take more than 400,000 Scouts with it.

That's the contention of Salt Lake City attorney Von G. Keetch, who has filed a brief with the Supreme Court supporting the Boy Scouts' ban on homosexuals on behalf of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and four other religious organizations.
I know these articles are over 10 years old, but most of the more recent items I've found are specificially about stories concerning Mormons/Scouting and sexual abuses (much like the Catholic Church!) Still, there's more out there.

Anyone have more recent numbers of the Mormons and their representation in the BSA, at all levels? Leadership, especially.
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Post by SirNitram »

The Mormon connection doesn't shock me at all, as I look back. Like some others here, the Troop I was in was very tolerant and liberal; no shit was given over God, or sexuality, or even me not reciting the Pledge(Long story).

That said, the larger events we attended got progressively more and more religious as I went through my tenure. From mandatory religious services on Sunday at the week-longs(Ask me, sometime, how I got lost, wound up at the Catholic Mass, and nearly choked on the little wafer things.), to more and more overt religious displays, let me tell you, it got uncomfortable.
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Post by Darth Raptor »

I didn't know the Morons controlled the Boy Scouts of America either. I wasn't in the program myself, never having been the outdoorsy type.

This "Oh we embrace all faiths, so long as they're positive faiths" line is often used by theocracy apologists, but it doesn't hold up under scrutiny. The fact is that Catholicism, Mormonism, Baptism, Methodism, etc., even Judaism and Islam are all slightly different shades of the same goddamn religion. I wonder if they'd be oh-so-accepting of witches, Hindus, or Buddhists? What about Satanists? Scientologists? Jedi? I wouldn't hold my breath. Don't be fooled when the theocrat says he only wants to exclude atheists. That's just one of the few religious (albeit negative/null) groups you can get away with being shitty towards.
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Post by Flagg »

Darth Raptor wrote:I didn't know the Morons controlled the Boy Scouts of America either. I wasn't in the program myself, never having been the outdoorsy type.

This "Oh we embrace all faiths, so long as they're positive faiths" line is often used by theocracy apologists, but it doesn't hold up under scrutiny. The fact is that Catholicism, Mormonism, Baptism, Methodism, etc., even Judaism and Islam are all slightly different shades of the same goddamn religion. I wonder if they'd be oh-so-accepting of witches, Hindus, or Buddhists? What about Satanists? Scientologists? Jedi? I wouldn't hold my breath. Don't be fooled when the theocrat says he only wants to exclude atheists. That's just one of the few religious (albeit negative/null) groups you can get away with being shitty towards.
It depends on the troop, really. My troop had Muslims and Hindus in it. I'm pretty sure my troop leader was an Atheist, too. Though this was before the Scouts finally won the discrimination case and began weeding us evil Atheists out. But there were other troops who were pretty hardcore baptists.
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