Purchising a game online

[Zixinus]

I have played the demo of this game: http://www.bit-blot.com/aquaria/index.html

And I want to buy it. However, I am insecure about payment. My dad is paranoid about his credit card number, and wants some reassurance that by purchasing this, his number won't go on the net and begin a financial nightmare.

I would pay by phone, if I were to prefer. How safe is this?

[Temjin]

Why not just send a money order? Sure, it'll take a while longer to get the full version, but you won't have to worry about credit card security at all.

[Zixinus]

You can't imagine the inefficiency of our country's postal service. The company would go bankrupt before the check would arrive.

[Bounty]

You can't imagine the inefficiency of our country's postal service. The company would go bankrupt before the check would arrive.

He didn't mean "send a check", he meant wiring the money directly from your account to theirs. You need to check the fees first, but it should be possible.

[Zixinus]

Well, what I want to reassure father that his credit card or bank account won't get leeched dry from giving out his number. I have my own bank account.

Yes, I am very clueless how this works. There is the option of "wire transfer", which seems to be a direct bank account transfer.

[brianeyci]

Financial nightmare?

I have never understood that with credit cards. He doesn't check his credit card line for line, and he doesn't get semi-annual credit reports? I'm near broke and I do that.

Maybe if you promise to go through credit cards with your dad for suspicious fees every month, it would asuage his fears. You learn a valuable skill, on top of making your dad happy (who sounds like he's too lazy to look on his own.) Either that, or he's looking for an excuse not to spend money, which is far more likely. Any adult with a credit card knows you can cancel bogus charges, or even cancel the entire credit card itself and easily get a brand new one, at least in America or Canada. It takes ten minutes a month to scan through it line by line with your dad, and he might see you as a real responsible man .

However, I watched the Fifth Estate (a investigative documentary program) go through about how easy it was to find credit cards in Internet chat rooms. They can find: social insurance number, address, credit card number, driver's license, any and everything about you. Even fucking secret answers and bank PIN numbers. I can't imagine this information getting on the Internet without someone keying it in -- but honestly I think your dad is having a false sense of security if he thinks keeping things secret keeps himself more safe. He has to check anyway, no matter what. These guys look through garbage cans and steal from corporations for your personal information.

The long term solution is get your own credit card.

Buy only from reputable merchants, keep your computer clean of spyware and do not install programs from sources you don't know anything about (keystroke loggers) and you are fine.

[Bounty]

Fill out the order form and select "wire transfer". You should get a page with their bank details; you then take this information to your bank, have them make the payment and once the money is wired over they'll ship you the game.

ETA: I don't know WTF Brian is rambling about. There's nothing wrong with your dad being suspicious about what his card is used for.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

Wire transfers are pretty expensive, though. A domestic wire is $25-30 in the US. If you're really paranoid, open a new checking account and get a debit card that's only linked to that account, make the purchase and then block the account to "Post No Debits" or close it. Honestly, though, you're not liable for ID theft, so that would be a lot of trouble to go to, and no method is foolproof. Even if you blocked the checking, someone could theoretically still use that card as a form of ID to access your other accounts.

[brianeyci]

ETA: I don't know WTF Brian is rambling about. There's nothing wrong with your dad being suspicious about what his card is used for.

Sure there is. It's logically unfounded, because buying on the Internet is safe as long as you take the appropriate measures.

If I was rambling I would be calling his dad fucking stupid for being paranoid and not knowing how to use a credit card, but I didn't do that did I. It seemed like the guy needed a little more information.

Like Tuxedo says, no method is foolproof, which means you have to check anyway if you decide to use anything at all, and saying you don't have to check as long as you keep everything secret is a false sense of security.

[Bounty]

Wire transfers are pretty expensive, though. A domestic wire is $25-30 in the US.

Seriously? A simple account-to-account transfer? It's almost free in the Eurozone. Weird.

and saying you don't have to check as long as you keep everything secret is a false sense of security.

You're arguing with yourself now, Brian. The only one who brought up checks is you. Like usual, you're racing off to fight your own strawmen.

[brianeyci]

Let's see Bounty.

He mentioned his dad was paranoid about using his credit card on the Internet.

You turned that into the strawman of his dad being afraid to give out his credit card at all.

Don't be fucking dumb. Either his dad is one of the retards who doesn't check his credit card for bogus charges (common) or it's an excuse (I mentioned it) or he's afraid of using his card on the Internet (paranoia). He says nothing about his dad merely being afraid of what he's buying, but the process.

Dad mentioned a financial nightmare. Do you know what a financial nightmare is? It happens when a person isn't careful and doesn't check. No duh.

"Like usual?" Fuck you.

[andrewgpaul]

Does the site take PayPal? If so, you could use that. That way, only PayPal gets your card number.

For extra paranoia, you can link a PayPal account to a bank account rather than a credit card. While this sounds more insecure, if you open a current account, put in only enough money to pay for the game, and then close it after the transaction is complete, you'll be fine.

I don't know if PayPal lets you do this in Hungary, though. You'd need to check their website.

Mind you, using a credit card online isn't any more insecure than checking your account online; the same data's going down the wires. If you pay for something with a credit card in, say, a restaraunt and they take the card away from you to process it, that's more insecure than using it over the 'net; how do you know the waiter isn'c topying the card details while you can't see him?

[Zixinus]

Well, I'm going with wire transfer anyway. It will be a little more expensive (19+ USD, plus whatever my bank wants too).

Dad is giving the money, so its not an excuse. Neither of us have any experience with online purchasing. Is there a manual for these type of things? Hell, I would like a manual for how to use my bank account.

We were once planning to make a bank account for internet purchases. It turned out that for what he wanted it for, and the game I wanted to buy, is only purchasable in America. Or at least not in my country.

[Bounty]

Your bank should be able to help you. Check their website, they probably have the instructions for international transfers written down somewhere.

[Netko]

My recommendation for the future is to check out PayPal options and somehow get a paypal account, preferably linked to something that has limited possibility for damage (student credit card, bank Visa Electron linked to an account used only for internet shopping, etc.). It simply the most elegant way to shop in case you don't own a major accepted credit card yourself (American Express practically for this part of Europe) - a lot of online stores are oriented exclusively towards North Americans and so don't accept most usual European CC brands (and bank cards also tend to have issues), while PayPal accepts them, and PayPal is accepted by practically everyone online.

As far as availability - digital downloads for software are your best bet, with the dollar this weak you can get some great bargains by shopping on US sites (direct2drive, gamersgate, etc.). As far as physical goods go, I'd be very careful. Amazon works, no-name stores not used to dealing with this part of Europe not so much - if you must buy something from such a store, be prepared to get a follow up email claiming increased delivery costs compared to their stated international rates. Be prepared for customs delays. Its possible that things are a bit better up in Hungary (EU and all), however I wouldn't be surprised to find the situation as sucktastic as it is here - a couple of my friends in Slovenia report that the situation is the same there WRT US sites, only the EU sites got somewhat better after joining. On that note, for physical goods EU sites are recommended for just that reason, however in those cases you don't get to use the awesome exchange rate advantage.

[General Zod]

Well, I'm going with wire transfer anyway. It will be a little more expensive (19+ USD, plus whatever my bank wants too).

Dad is giving the money, so its not an excuse. Neither of us have any experience with online purchasing. Is there a manual for these type of things? Hell, I would like a manual for how to use my bank account.

We were once planning to make a bank account for internet purchases. It turned out that for what he wanted it for, and the game I wanted to buy, is only purchasable in America. Or at least not in my country.

Any major, reputable credit card company provides fraud protection, so in case someone misusses your card you can simply call up your provider and have any charges stopped and a new card issued. Most reputable businesses can be confirmed by Google searching them, so if there's a number of negative reviews on them you know not to use them.

For the most part as long as you do some research on any company you're not sure about beforehand, there's very little trouble in using credit or debit cards on the internet. Hell, that's the main reason I use my debit card and I've only been burned twice due to shitty ebay users, but got it refunded (via Paypal). From the look of the website it has a Paypal link. You really could have just signed up for a Paypal account, hooked up your dad's credit card to that and paid via Paypal instead.

It adds a double layer of protection as anyone trying to use your credit card through your Paypal account would be fucked and not able to do anything.

[phongn]

Some credit card companies offer one-time-numbers for cases like this, as well.

[bilateralrope]

Well, the encryption looks decent, so I wouldn't worry about the credit card details getting intercepted between your computer and theirs. I doubt a phone line would be as secure if you went that way.

So for a credit card you would only then have to worry about that company releasing it. If your really worried then email them and ask what methods they use to prevent it being stolen from their machines.

So I'd say go ahead and use the credit card, but watch the statement for any suspicious activity. And by suspicious, I mean any transactions your dad didn't make. If he is already making too many transactions to remember each one, get him to record them on paper to check against the statement.

[Zixinus]

Actually, it seems that I will be sticking to wire transfer. Dad doesn't even want t to hear about his credit card being used. It contains all the family's money.

[phongn]

Actually, it seems that I will be sticking to wire transfer. Dad doesn't even want t to hear about his credit card being used. It contains all the family's money.

Oh, that sounds like a debit card, actually. I can see why he might be worried about that.

[Stark]

To be honest, it really depends how you're buying it. If your paranoid about huge websites stealzoring your card number, you should equally be paranoid about actual regular shops stealing your card number since retail slaves have to look at it. Then again, if it's some tiny developer selling it themselves, there's a more justifiable paranoia.

[Soontir C'boath]

Actually, it seems that I will be sticking to wire transfer. Dad doesn't even want t to hear about his credit card being used. It contains all the family's money.

Oh, that sounds like a debit card, actually. I can see why he might be worried about that.

Reading up Hungary's history of their credit card, they apparently always had the "check card".

[Flagg]

Use a prepaid credit card. You can get one in most drugstores. I'm assuming you're in the US, of course.

[Stark]

Fuck only knows why since he's clearly in Hungary, people are talking about Hungary, etc etc.

[Netko]

And, do to that, I think prepaid credit cards aren't available to him. Now, I can't be certain, but we get a lot of bullshit stories how our financial sector is one of the most advanced in the region, and we sure as hell don't get them, so I doubt our neighbours to the north do.

Hence why I recommended a student card (obviously for students only) or a junior (or some similar name card meant for minors) - those tend to have very low limits at around 150ish € so possible damage is limited even if the CC company doesn't honour its customer fraud protection policies.

And yeah, from what Zixinus is saying, what his dad has is probably a debit card - those are actually rarely accepted (Visa Electrons sometimes, others pretty rarely), except from Paypal, however, yes, it is a bad idea to use them except in the case of an "Internet account" ie and account opened for only internet purchases that gets very limited money transferred to it for just that purpose.