WH40k astropaths

[Peptuck]

Librarians don't go through that, IIRC (my Space Marine lore is rusty >.>) but Grey Knights are supposed to go through it.

Marines, Grey Knights, most psychic Inquisitors etc don't appear to need it - just the regular Astropaths. I say Grey Knights because everything I've seen points to them still having their eyes (unless their modifications allow them to survive the eye-burning-out bit ).

Well, its not certain if they need it, but the [lr=http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/ ... nators.htm]GK Terminators[/url] entry on GW's own page indicates that the Terminators at least go through the soul binding.

Ghetto edit:
Frak.

[NecronLord]

That's a rumour only. If they do, they must be even more exceptional than they otherwise are. It usually burns out the eyes, and GKterminators have eyes.

[andrewgpaul]

The Grey Knight Terminators could have bionic or replacement eyes.

Or it could be that part of their training/surgical enhancement is beefed-up, Adeptus Astartes-grade optic nerves

Bastard GW and their bastard revisionism

[Utsanomiko]

What about warp-astronavigation? Are Navigators still needed, or do Librarians fill the role for Space Marines?

Only those with the Navigator gene are capable of steering through the warp; Navigators are essentially a tightly-knit breed of psykers with particular powers. Astropaths and Librarians lack the powers and skills for the task.

So as I recall, every ship in the Imperium has a cozy Navigator suite shut away from the rest of ship for its assigned Navigator to live and work without being disrupted by the rest of the crew and their non-navigator culture.

[Imperial Overlord]

Space Marines need Navigators just as much as everyone else does. There are references to Chaos Sorcerers doing navigation work ( but it isn't mentioned how good they are compared to a Navigator), bt one should always remember that a Navigator isn't essential for warp travel, they just make the process much faster and somewhat safer.

[NecronLord]

So as I recall, every ship in the Imperium has a cozy Navigator suite shut away from the rest of ship for its assigned Navigator to live and work without being disrupted by the rest of the crew and their non-navigator culture.

Not all. Some Navigators are quite poor. Comparatively. But ones on warships have been known to have harems on board.

[Siege]

Are the guys and gals who - for want of a better word - 'fuel' the Astronomicon astropaths themselves, or are they just the psyker-warpcraft equivalent of turbodiesel for the Emperor's Most Holy Funkyness? I'm asking because in the Ravenor novel, [SPOILERS] Inquisitor Ravenor remarks that the psyker Kinsky should've been "embraced on the bosom of the Astronomicon" (or similar words), and Kinsky is obviously a psyker of some impressive prowess.

[NecronLord]

They're of moderate power and stability. The unstable ones are killed or directly fed to the Emperor.

[andrewgpaul]

They're not Astropaths, though; that term specifically refers to those who have undergone the Soul Bonding ritual, and are employed as communications links. The ones in the Astronomicon are simply psykers.

[Cykeisme]

So as I understand it, psykers are identified by the Inquisition, taken away, and depending on their power level, divided into three groups:

1) The weakest are simply fed to the Golden Throne or used as fuel for the Astronomican beacon
2) If they're strong enough to be Astropaths (but too weak for #3), they're Soul-Binded for safety against the Perils of the Warp, and are sent across the Imperium in their job as human cellphones.
3) Those strong enough to protect themselves against Warp daemons are too strong to be wasted. They become Sanctioned Psykers for use in warfare.
4) Really strong ones with other skill might be apprenticed to a senior Inquisitor, and might one day become Inquisitors themselves.

Is that about right?


Also, question:
What happens to Space Marine initiates that are discovered to be in category #1 or #2?

[Peptuck]

So as I understand it, psykers are identified by the Inquisition, taken away, and depending on their power level, divided into three groups:

1) The weakest are simply fed to the Golden Throne or used as fuel for the Astronomican beacon
2) If they're strong enough to be Astropaths (but too weak for #3), they're Soul-Binded for safety against the Perils of the Warp, and are sent across the Imperium in their job as human cellphones.
3) Those strong enough to protect themselves against Warp daemons are too strong to be wasted. They become Sanctioned Psykers for use in warfare.
4) Really strong ones with other skill might be apprenticed to a senior Inquisitor, and might one day become Inquisitors themselves.

Is that about right?

There's also the fifth group, which are psykers either too heavily influenced by the warp or are otherwise uncontrollable, who get a quick bolter round to the cranium.

Also, question:
What happens to Space Marine initiates that are discovered to be in category #1 or #2?

They're usually weeded out before they become SM initiates. They may either be trained to be come Librarians or get sent off to Titan to be trained as Grey Knights, IIRC.

[Siege]

Are Navigators and future Librarians also picked up by the Black Ships to be distributed to their future professions, or are they a non-Inquisition affair?

And from the appearance of Kinsky in the Ravenor novel, I take it that occasionally psykers can be leased out to other institutions than the Inquisition or the Imperial Guard as well...

[Block]

Are Navigators and future Librarians also picked up by the Black Ships to be distributed to their future professions, or are they a non-Inquisition affair?

And from the appearance of Kinsky in the Ravenor novel, I take it that occasionally psykers can be leased out to other institutions than the Inquisition or the Imperial Guard as well...

Navigators are from navigator families from what I remember.

[Imperial Overlord]

Strong and unstable psykers are sent to the Astronomicon.

As for Librarians they come from two sources. One is the Blackships. The Inquisition, Grey Knights, and Astartes (in roughly that order) get first pick of promising psykers. The second is that young men get picked up by Astartes about the same time that psychic abilities commonly manifest. Any initiate showing psychic potential will be evaluated by the Chapter's Librarians and dealt with accordingly by them.

[NecronLord]

4) Really strong ones with other skill might be apprenticed to a senior Inquisitor, and might one day become Inquisitors themselves.

Or have skills that are simply useful to the Inquisitor. Jaq Draco, for instance, wasn't particularly powerful, but he had a talent for hiding himself, even being able to make his ship disappear or go unnoticed. By the eldar.

[Imperial Overlord]

Or have skills that are simply useful to the Inquisitor. Jaq Draco, for instance, wasn't particularly powerful, but he had a talent for hiding himself, even being able to make his ship disappear or go unnoticed. By the eldar.

I agree in general, but Jaq Draco was able to stun a Chaos Titan with his force rod. He doesn't tend to lead with psychic assault, but that's pretty formidable.

[Cykeisme]

I'll leave the bulk of the question to be answered properly, but I can say that Librarians-to-be are not distributed in such a manner.

All background on Space Marine Librarians I've seen indicates that they were recruited from the same pool (usually a Chapter homeworld) as the regular initiates.

Do keep in mind that there are very high standards (physical, mental and of character) for recruitment to be a Space Marine; a potential Librarian would have to meet those standards as well as being a sufficiently powerful psyker.

[NecronLord]

I agree in general, but Jaq Draco was able to stun a Chaos Titan with his force rod. He doesn't tend to lead with psychic assault, but that's pretty formidable.

He's certainly no slouch. Of course, IIRC, that was in the Eye, where I expect such things are more important.

[NecronLord]

I'll leave the bulk of the question to be answered properly, but I can say that Librarians-to-be are not distributed in such a manner.

It's supposedly a matter that varies by chapter. Some recruit from homeworlds and ordinary pool, some, if they've a dearth of candidates, get them from the Telepathica.

[Cykeisme]

Whoops, Imperial Overlord has specified that Librarians are sourced from Black Ship pickups. My bad there.

I was basing it on the Blood Ravens Index Astartes, that mentioned that the Blood Ravens had an unusually high number of Librarians due to the likewise unusual number of psykers that occur on worlds patronized by the Blood Ravens, such as the now-destroyed planet of Cyrene.
I assumed that since the link was made between high number of Librarians and the high incidence of psykers on worlds where recruiting was done to mean that Librarians are just taken from the normal recruit pool.

I suppose that this doesn't make sense for most Chapters that recruit from normal worlds, since Psykers are far too rare to even come up with a handful of Librarians among a pool of a mere few dozen Initiates, taken once every few decades.


Back to Navigators.. I hear there's a whole little world of politcal backstabbery and such among the Navigator houses (the gene is hereditary?).. so do Space Marine chapters tend to have ties to particular houses, or something? Or are they assigned by the Imperium?
Curious about this, because as I understand it, Chapters operate very independently from the normal administrative structure of the Imperium.

[NecronLord]

Back to Navigators.. I hear there's a whole little world of politcal backstabbery and such among the Navigator houses (the gene is hereditary?).. so do Space Marine chapters tend to have ties to particular houses, or something? Or are they assigned by the Imperium?

One of the Space Wolf (Wolfblade, I think, the one where they go to Terra) books is about Ragnar being sent to aid the hereditary allied house of the Space Wolves.

[Karza]

Back to Navigators.. I hear there's a whole little world of politcal backstabbery and such among the Navigator houses (the gene is hereditary?).. so do Space Marine chapters tend to have ties to particular houses, or something? Or are they assigned by the Imperium?

One of the Space Wolf (Wolfblade, I think, the one where they go to Terra) books is about Ragnar being sent to aid the hereditary allied house of the Space Wolves.

It's Wolfblade alright, though the Space Wolves' alliance (originally set up by Russ himself) with the navigator house Belisarius was mentioned in Grey Hunter as well. Anyway, the impression I got from the books is that the Space Wolves - Belisarius alliance is a very rare if not unique case. Wolfblade IIRC mentions that the Belisarians' Space Wolf allies are the only Space Marine force on Terra (except the Custodes), which makes me think no other navigator house has such an intimate relationship with a Space Marine chapter (you'd think they'd keep a contingent available on Terra if they did).

And yes, the navigators pull insane amounts of cloak-and-dagger crap on each other and the assorted imperial organizations. There's a constant theme in Wolfblade about never taking anything a navigator says at face value. It's a good book, I heartily recommend it if you're interested in the topic.

[Kuja]

"When two navigators meet, you get three conspiracies."

[White Haven]

Hehe, or you get an Inquisitor with a nifty pair of sunglasses.