Iraq vs. Federation Earth

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2003-01-17 06:35pm

For an unknown reason, the country of Iraq at the state that it is in at the time of this posting is transported to the ST future as of TNG replacing whatever exists there in that time.

What is the result?

Strate_Egg · Post by **Strate_Egg** » 2003-01-17 07:04pm

I say that Iraq takes over the Earth since the Federation is A: too stupid to act, and B: too pacifistic to act.

This is the only time frame i believe Iraq would not get squashed like a bug.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-01-17 07:33pm

Iraq beats the pants off the Federation. Saddam Hussein has his dream of weapons of mass destruction.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-01-17 07:47pm

Even Feds aren't this incompetent. If they're threatened, they'll respond, after years of negotiating...

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » 2003-01-17 07:55pm

Exonerate wrote:Even Feds aren't this incompetent. If they're threatened, they'll respond, after years of negotiating...

Which, by that time, Iraq has secured weapons from the Roms/Klingons/Any other race and beats the Feddies into submission.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-17 08:15pm

Iraq would be unbeatable on the ground, but they have essentially no strategic transport.

Unless Iraq finds a way to drive its tanks thousands of miles across the Artic ice they can't take earth. The Federation would slowly where them down and eventually prevail.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-01-17 08:29pm

Three letters: NBC! Whats the worst thing that has ever happened to Earth in Treks time? The Breen bombing maybe (even though the Feds saw them coming days in advance

), and that's just a sample of the stuff that'd be raining down on them IF they decided to go to war with Iraq.

If they decided to go into negotiations, Iraq would bide their time, maybe secure this furture tech from the Roms, Klings, or just the Feds own black market (I'm assuming such a thing exsists). And then strike in full fury, a combo fo Trek modern day stuff, adn good 'ol fashioned chem/bio warfare.

Still, I'd give the Feds astounding complete ability to act in these situations a backseat. I'd say 50/50 on the outcome.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-01-17 10:31pm

Darth Garden Gnome: The Feds saw them coming days in advance? you got a reason to think that?

The Feds take this one with ease, they can simply beam up any vehicles if not beam explosives near them.

The Feds also control earth thus Klingon gun running etc just isn't going to happen and Iraq will have to fight wth what its got and thus lose.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-01-17 11:51pm

Try this. Recently heard a joke saying about the expected French response if it turned out that Iraq had nukes:

"Well yes, but that's still not enough to go to war over yet."

Now using the Feddie political calculator

Fr*40000+I-S=P

thus you would get a likleness to react of around 60,000 to 1 if Iraq had nukes. There goes the world...

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-01-18 12:25am

if the feddies did outright war, iraq would lose, of course. but hussien could play his game there too, get wbd materials for reasearch projects, and play the peacemaker. get a few icbms and some klingon ships (offer a bunch of colonies

) and all hail grand admiral saddam, ruler of a thousand worlds.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-18 12:45am

TheDarkling wrote:Darth Garden Gnome: The Feds saw them coming days in advance? you got a reason to think that?

I agree that they didn't see them coming. Mind you, since Breen vessels are not cloaked, this indicates a surprisingly porous early warning system.

The Feds take this one with ease, they can simply beam up any vehicles if not beam explosives near them.

When have they beamed up 60 tons of steel? They can't use transporters near an electrical transformer: for all you know, the ignition system of a typical automobile or tank would render its driver immune from transporters.

The Feds also control earth thus Klingon gun running etc just isn't going to happen and Iraq will have to fight wth what its got and thus lose.

True; it would probably win some lopsided ground battles in the early going, but that's it.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-18 12:46am

TheDarkling wrote:Darth Garden Gnome: The Feds saw them coming days in advance? you got a reason to think that?

I agree that they didn't see them coming. Mind you, since Breen vessels are not cloaked, this indicates a surprisingly porous early warning system.

The Feds take this one with ease, they can simply beam up any vehicles if not beam explosives near them.

When have they beamed up 60 tons of steel? They can't use transporters near an electrical transformer: for all you know, the ignition system of a typical automobile or tank would render its driver immune from transporters.

The Feds also control earth thus Klingon gun running etc just isn't going to happen and Iraq will have to fight wth what its got and thus lose.

True; it would probably win some lopsided ground battles in the early going, but that's it.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2003-01-18 01:05am

Vulcan becomes the 'seat' of the Federation because Earth is a nuclear wasteland.
Darth Wong did a double post!

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-01-18 01:26am

Darth Wong: And your proof that they weren't cloaked is? (before you say I have to prove it we know the Breen have cloaks so I would think they would use them in this attack unless you have a reason why they wouldn't).

I did say they may not be able to beam up the tank (we have seen they beam shuttles which range from 1-5 tons so thats all we can they can do for sure).
However that still doesn't negate beaming down torps (or grenades) or phaser strikes from runabouts on low altitude runs or even strikes from orbit.

On the issue of a car blocking transport I believe voyager beamed Henry Starling out of his Limo but they may have failed due to his technology (I don't think so but my memory is hazy).

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-01-18 01:51am

Active sensors like a tricorder do not prevent transport, and they'd need to pump out a lot more radiation to be effective than a typical automotive ignition system.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-01-18 01:51am

And, of course, military vehicles tend to be diesel, which has no electical ignition system at all

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-18 03:25am

Howedar wrote:And, of course, military vehicles tend to be diesel, which has no electical ignition system at all

There's a damn lot of electrical equipment onboard however for the fire control systems and night vision gear.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-01-18 04:59am

Seggybop wrote:For an unknown reason, the country of Iraq at the state that it is in at the time of this posting is transported to the ST future as of TNG replacing whatever exists there in that time.

What is the result?

I think Saddam would demand to join the UFP as a seperate member state or autonomous region, noting that it would be impossible for the UFP to avoid violations of the Prime Directive with Iraq being physically on Earth (Remember, his Iraq would be from an alternate history as well as the past).

The UFP would certainly agree to this, and would probably get taken in by obvious tricks like rigged elections and emptying his prisons to make them think he is a benevolent ruler who is working on modernizing his country towards genuine, peaceful, pacifistic democracy.

Iraq would be an autonomous region of the UFP which would receive aide from the UFP, it would be modernized by Federation scienticists, and I bet Iraqis would even serve in Starfleet and probably turn out to be more competent than the average Federation officer: In the Iran-Iraq War the Iraqi military was actually the one that used strategy to offset the Iranian numerical advantage.

Saddam would get the aide of Federation medical science to live longer, and of course his people probable really would love him when the free food aide comes in.

Who knows. He could possibly even launch a charm campaign and run for President of the UFP after a few years depending on what his agreement with the Federation was to begin with. His chance of winning seems very high; he has the personal charisma to do it, and he could twist Ba'athist National-Socialism just a bit to sound acceptable to the average brainless Feddie voter.

If that failed, he could turn the Iraqi Autonomous Region into a Fed tech-level industrial powerhouse and develop contacts throughout Starfleet and quietly use them to contact foreign powers, and eventually try to conquer Earth while Iraqi agents in Starfleet wreak havoc, and foreign powers recognize him as the UFP's dictator in exchange for colonial regions.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-18 10:24am

Darth Wong wrote:When have they beamed up 60 tons of steel? They can't use transporters near an electrical transformer: for all you know, the ignition system of a typical automobile or tank would render its driver immune from transporters.

In Nemesis the Enterprise was able to beam an entire fighter with both Picard and Data on board.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-01-18 10:31am

Alyeska wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:When have they beamed up 60 tons of steel? They can't use transporters near an electrical transformer: for all you know, the ignition system of a typical automobile or tank would render its driver immune from transporters.
In Nemesis the Enterprise was able to beam an entire fighter with both Picard and Data on board.

And in ST IV the Klingon BoP "Bounty" beamed two humback whales and enough water to will a gargohold aboard in a single go.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-18 10:33am

Sir Sirius wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:When have they beamed up 60 tons of steel? They can't use transporters near an electrical transformer: for all you know, the ignition system of a typical automobile or tank would render its driver immune from transporters.
In Nemesis the Enterprise was able to beam an entire fighter with both Picard and Data on board.
And in ST IV the Klingon BoP "Bounty" beamed two humback whales and enough water to will a gargohold aboard in a single go.

And that was litterally tons upon tons of water. Yeah, I think the transporters can handle a tank.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-01-18 03:26pm

No, silly, the Iraqis will weld electrical transformers to their tanks, preventing beam-up!

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-01-18 03:33pm

Darth Wong wrote:
The Feds take this one with ease, they can simply beam up any vehicles if not beam explosives near them.
When have they beamed up 60 tons of steel? They can't use transporters near an electrical transformer: for all you know, the ignition system of a typical automobile or tank would render its driver immune from transporters.

They've beamed up 400Tonnes of water (ST:IV) ok actually that was a Kling BoP, and though there is a major case for technological regression since then, I'd say that they probably still can. They can beam shuttles, Deja Q, ST:X

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-01-18 03:34pm

Damm. It's been said

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » 2003-01-18 05:11pm

They've beamed up 400Tonnes of water (ST:IV) ok actually that was a Kling BoP, and though there is a major case for technological regression since then, I'd say that they probably still can. They can beam shuttles, Deja Q, ST:X

What technological regression? Do you believe in the "Cult of the Connie" nonsnse from Spacebattles? If so, you should note that the Enterprise was threatened by a 1960's nuke from an airplane, probably in the kilton range.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Iraq vs. Federation Earth

Iraq vs. Federation Earth

interesting

Re: Iraq vs. Federation Earth