Byzantine Empire vs China

[HemlockGrey]

Take the Chinese empire and the Bzyantine Empire at their respective heights and place them in the same era of time. They have all their respective technology and forces. They are in their exact same locations, but assume no logistical problems in crossing the regions in between the empires.

The Chinese do not have to worry about the Mongols. The Byzantines do not have to worry about barbarians, Muslims, or Crusaders.

What is the outcome of this struggle?

[Frank Hipper]

Given those conditions, China belches after swallowing the Byzantines. Maybe a bone will stick in their throat, but that's about it.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Take the Chinese empire and the Bzyantine Empire at their respective heights and place them in the same era of time. They have all their respective technology and forces. They are in their exact same locations, but assume no logistical problems in crossing the regions in between the empires.

The Chinese do not have to worry about the Mongols. The Byzantines do not have to worry about barbarians, Muslims, or Crusaders.

What is the outcome of this struggle?

Uhm.. Well, I assume we'll place the Byzantine Empire in the 10th or 11th centuries and during the reign of Basil II Bulgaroktonos.

This nearly coincides with the Chinese Dynasty the Chinese themselves consider to be the most virtuous and enlightened, the glory of Imperial rule: The T'ang. Well, technologically. The exact dates couldn't be the same if you want them at their maximal strength.

Simply put, even assuming the logistics are ignored - which is as far-fetched as the time travel - the T'ang do not have the ability to defeat Byzantium of this era, and neither does Byzantium the T'ang.

The Byzantines are by this time the heirs of a millenia and a half of finely honed military wisdom fully comparable to that of China; they have an urbanized civilization which has recovered and resurged and has not yet begun its final decline.

Their military is organized around a Thematic system of men given land in exchange for military service, which is strictly regulated by written law and thus maintains the Imperial Autocracy in a way that the knightly system never could, and also allows for landed infantry.

The central army consists of an all-cavalry tagmatic force of professionals numbering at least 20,000, and including an awesome heavy shock force of Klibanophoroi, fully armoured lancers, man and horse, supported by a personal Imperial horse bodyguard and the famed Varangians, axe-and-shield infantry on the Anglo-Saxon model, famed for their rapid strategic marches and numbering up to 7,000.

The Anatolian Themes numbered between 72,000 - 85,000 men aggregate strength, the bulk of the strength being cavalry, which was armoured and usually armed with bow, lance, and mace or sword; supported by normal horse archers.

The infantry was organized into Chiliarchies of a thousand men, each Chiliarchy consisting of 400 Pike (or spear) Bearers called hoplitai, 300 Archers, 200 Javelineers, and 100 menavlion bearers, or men carrying extra-long special pikes with anti-cavalry fouling heads. Twelve Chiliarchies were an infantry army.

Typical formations would have two ranks of hoplitai to the fore, then the archers then the remaining two ranks of hoplitai, a hundred in frontage, for mutual coverage and missile defence. With the 100 Javelineers to each flank and to close the gap between each Chiliarchy, and the menavlion bearers to the rear to be detailed to wherever they were needed.

The infantry would act in a defensive role while the cavalry used their bows for suppressive fire and the lance for the decisive shock charge.

The Balkan Themes might have had between 41,000 - 47,000 men at this period (Not counting the Crimean) and were heavier on infantry due to the terrain, having 16,000 man infantry army organizations and lesser cavalry musters in the Themes.

Every four men had a porter assigned to carry supplies and aide in siege work and engineering, and there was also a dedicated supply corps.

Serbia and Georgia were vassal states, and so some forces, depending on circumstance, might perhaps arrive from them, though I would not count on it.

Altogether the Byzantine Empire is capable of fielding around probably 150,000 men in this time frame, and perhaps 105,000 in Asia or 70,000 in Europe. Highly trained and disciplined troops, motivated to fight to defend land which they own as the condition of their service, excellently equipped and organized to make maximum use of their weaponry and the local terrain; ably led by commanders who have access to and understand a military tradition of a millenia and a half.

Only nearly a half-century of internal dissent followed by the withdrawal of a section of the Byzantine Army at Manzikert because of said dissent, allowed for the Turks to defeat them there, who were a horse cavalry force already more organized than most thanks to their gaining Empire.

To postulate such a scenario as this is really to compare the capabilities of the two empires by creative a hypothetical engage to serve as the vehicle for the comparison. What we find is that both are entirely capable of defending their respective holdings from the other. The Byzantine Army, in particular, is entirely geared towards the defensive; and thus, has a certain advantage over the greater T'ang numbers.

All they have to do is hold, which they would do, like they had been doing for centuries before. And this would be especially true under the leadership of Basil II.

[ArmorPierce]

China would eventually win, over the course of hundreds of years.