Sweden denies Mogadishu conflict

[[R_H]]

BBC

Swedish authorities have ruled that failed asylum seekers from the Somali capital, Mogadishu, can be sent back as there is no "armed conflict" there.

The Swedish immigration agency said that Swedish law says there is no armed conflict in Mogadishu because rebels there do not control territory.

Ethiopian troops backing the interim government have been battling Islamist insurgents in Mogadishu.

A Somali official has said 80% of the country is not in government hands.

One million homeless

Sweden automatically grants asylum to anyone from an area in which something "more like your traditional civil war" exists, where "rebellion forces have territorial control in a part of the city, the country or the region," senior immigration official Dan Eliasson told AFP news agency.

"This is not the case in Mogadishu," said Mr Eliasson, the general director of the Swedish Migration Board. Fighting between Ethiopian forces backing the interim government and Islamist insurgents has killed many hundreds of people, although no exact figure is available.

At least 17 people were killed in a mortar attack on Mogadishu's main market on Thursday.

The UN says one million people are living rough in Somalia - including 60% of Mogadishu's population.

About 200,000 people have fled the city in the last month.

A spokesman for the Swedish Migration Board told the BBC that he accepted the UN's description of Somalia as the world's worst humanitarian disaster but that asylum seekers would have to prove they are personally threatened to be accepted by Sweden.

The ruling is likely to be challenged in the courts.

[Darth Yoshi]

So wait, in order to get asylum they have to leave the (relatively) safe capital and get to Sweden from a part of the country that's a warzone? Am I reading this right?

[Androsphinx]

That's how asylum works. You get to a place you're not allowed to be in, and then claim that on humanitarian reasons you can't go back.

[Darth Wong]

To be brutally honest, I can totally understand why people are looking for flimsy excuses to send Somali immigrants back home. The fact is that they're the biggest pack of assholes I've ever seen. The Somali refugees in my city are quite frankly scum; they have no concept of a law-and-order society and no interest in learning. They have all the ignorance of a first-generation immigrant coupled with all the arrogance of a tenth generation citizen.

Their kids behave like animals at school, with no respect whatsoever for the teachers. Their parents don't know how to fucking drive at all, and don't seem to give a shit when other drivers are clearly furious at them. They don't even seem to comprehend the concept of lineups. You see the fuckers at the shopping malls, letting their kids run wild. One kid actually tried to physically wrest my food away from me at the mall, and when I yelled at the mother to control her kid, she yelled back at me.

There are certain malls which I never go to any more because too many Somalis live near them.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I think that can apply to many immigrants. For instance, the Poles and so on from Eastern Europe are hard working and try to at least fit in, even if they still bring a lot of their own culture over here. A great number of African immigrants seem to come here only to be featured on the news a week later, as some group of expensive car thieves the other day consisted of half a dozen Muslim Africans.

And I ordinarily hate the Daily Mail image that those damned immigrants are all scum here to destroy our way of life, but it gets awfully hard to stand up to such accusations when the news seems to have more immigrant criminals everyday.

[Edi]

We've had Somalis for 15 years here and they are only now starting to integrate better. But there's still a number of problems with them sometimes. Fortunately the leaders of the Somali community have been very active in trying to set things straight and solve problems, otherwise the situation would be complete shit.

[hongi]

Not surprisingly, the levels of xenophobia cross racial boundaries:

Italy: Immigrants face more intolerance, says new report

Italian society was starting to show increased intolerance against immigrants, especially Romanians, according to a new report by independent research group, Censis.

The report also found a growing number of crimes were being committed by Romanian immigrants.

The bleak report about the state of Italian society, released on Friday, is certain to fuel the current debate about immigration and the role of minorities in the country.

The report said immigration from Romania to Italy had increased by 260 percent in the last five years. From 2004 to 2006, Romanian citizens became the largest immigrant group in Italy, and the one charged with the most crimes.

Or Italy: Local politician urges SS-style policies against immigrants

A local councillor in the northern city of Treviso has called for "10 immigrants to be punished for every crime against our citizens", reviving harrowing memories of a World War II Nazi atrocity in Italy.

During a council meeting earlier this week, Giorgio Bettio said: "With immigrants, we should use the same system the [Nazi] SS used, punish 10 of them for every crime committed against an Italian citizen."

[MKSheppard]

You see the fuckers at the shopping malls, letting their kids run wild. One kid actually tried to physically wrest my food away from me at the mall, and when I yelled at the mother to control her kid, she yelled back at me.

Did you complain to anyone about that?

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

We've had Somalis for 15 years here and they are only now starting to integrate better. But there's still a number of problems with them sometimes. Fortunately the leaders of the Somali community have been very active in trying to set things straight and solve problems, otherwise the situation would be complete shit.

Unfortunately, I cant second your opinion when it comes to Tampere. The situation for most parts regarding Somali's IS complete shit around here, having witnessed incidents much like Darth Wong is describing.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I think that can apply to many immigrants. For instance, the Poles and so on from Eastern Europe are hard working and try to at least fit in, even if they still bring a lot of their own culture over here. A great number of African immigrants seem to come here only to be featured on the news a week later, as some group of expensive car thieves the other day consisted of half a dozen Muslim Africans.

And I ordinarily hate the Daily Mail image that those damned immigrants are all scum here to destroy our way of life, but it gets awfully hard to stand up to such accusations when the news seems to have more immigrant criminals everyday.

I think the difference is, the Eastern Europeans at least came from some measure of civilization, though different culture.

The Africans on the other hand, to be blunt, came from some... dust town where their idea of civilization is living through chaos. This is akin to taking a monkey from the jungle to a city and they have no idea what to make of it.

[Darth Wong]

You see the fuckers at the shopping malls, letting their kids run wild. One kid actually tried to physically wrest my food away from me at the mall, and when I yelled at the mother to control her kid, she yelled back at me.

Did you complain to anyone about that?

No, I just physically shoved him away and then ate my food. What was I going to do, go to mall security and tell them that there's an unruly child in the food court? I doubt those Rent-A-Cops would have done anything anyway. Especially when the bitch didn't even speak English; you can't even tell her to leave the mall.

[white_rabbit]

Its pretty much the same in England. Somalis are the worst of the bunch, bar none. Most conversations I had on the topic singled them out, indeed, one african guy working as a security guard said " these somalis, they are animals, they want to act like they are back at home, but then why did they come here ? ".

Their kids playing in the middle of the road, shoeless and topless while their mums chain smoked while wearing designer gear and swigging beer is one of the memories of that social housing contract.

[Axis Kast]

It occurs to me that, were one to substitute the words "gay," "black," "Jew," or "American Indian" for "Somali" in many of these rants, the result would be automatic expulsion from these boards.

Do you people listen to yourselves? A bad day at the mall, a few unruly kids in the street, and it's, "All Somalis are trash"?

[Battlehymn Republic]

I think Darth Wong is being facetious, to satirize the xenophobic anti-immigrant attitudes prevalent in the U.S. and Europe. Swiftian, if I do say so myself.

[Darth Wong]

I think Darth Wong is being facetious, to satirize the xenophobic anti-immigrant attitudes prevalent in the U.S. and Europe. Swiftian, if I do say so myself.

No I'm not. I'm pro-immigrant in general, but Somalis are an exception. Any area where they settle turns to shit.

[white_rabbit]

It occurs to me that, were one to substitute the words "gay," "black," "Jew," or "American Indian" for "Somali" in many of these rants, the result would be automatic expulsion from these boards.

Do you people listen to yourselves? A bad day at the mall, a few unruly kids in the street, and it's, "All Somalis are trash"?

Let me reiterate, in 6 years of social housing contracts, Somalis stand out as the most problematic ethnic group.

I guess I could just be some racist guy though

Its not like I said, "all dem nigras are evul" is it ?

[Darth Wong]

It occurs to me that, were one to substitute the words "gay," "black," "Jew," or "American Indian" for "Somali" in many of these rants, the result would be automatic expulsion from these boards.

Do you people listen to yourselves? A bad day at the mall, a few unruly kids in the street, and it's, "All Somalis are trash"?

Since when are Somalis a race? They're a nation, not a race. And a horrible, shitty nation at that, torn apart by war and virtually bereft of government. It would be some kind of fucking miracle if they were not socially maladjusted.

[Sea Skimmer]

Since when are Somalis a race?

Since forever? Somali is most certainly an ethnic group with its own distinct language, located on the Horn of Africa, primarily Ethiopia, Somalia and Kenya to the tune of 25 million people. They are certainly not less of a race then say Koreans or Vietnamese would be. Heck there is even Pan Somalism movement calling for violent unification, though it was way more relevant back in the 1970s then today.

[Darth Wong]

Since when are Somalis a race?

Since forever? Somali is most certainly an ethnic group with its own distinct language, located on the Horn of Africa, primarily Ethiopia, Somalia and Kenya to the tune of 25 million people. They are certainly not less of a race then say Koreans or Vietnamese would be.

Funny- I don't recall saying anything about Kenyans and Ethiopians. I was specifically talking about Somalian refugees.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Since when are Somalis a race? They're a nation, not a race. And a horrible, shitty nation at that, torn apart by war and virtually bereft of government. It would be some kind of fucking miracle if they were not socially maladjusted.

Not to harp on your point, but the Somaliland region is pretty stable and prospering. Which is no wonder they want their own country.

I'm wondering if the cultural differences are so vast here that it's kind of like the relationship the Hmong exiles have in the U.S.

[FSTargetDrone]

Ethnic Somalis:

Somalia

Ethnic groups

The Somalis are classified as a Hamitic people with a Cushitic culture. It is believed that the Somalis descend from people who migrated from the equatorial lakes of Africa to settle in the area of Somalia's two rivers, there to intermix with pastoral groups from the north and migrants from the Arabian Peninsula, the Persian Gulf, and perhaps Southeast Asia.

Ethnic Somalis, who made up about 85% of the population in 1998, are divided into two main clan families: the Samaal, which includes the Darod, Isaaq, Hawiye, and Dir clan groups; and the Saab, which includes the Rahanweyn and Digil clans and other smaller clan groups. The Samaal are principally nomadic or seminomadic pastoralists; the Digil and Rahanweyn are primarily farmers and sedentary herders. There are also small Bantu-speaking groups who live along the Shabeelle and Jubba rivers.

The nonindigenous population consists primarily of Arabs, Italians, Pakistanis, and Indians. The Italians are mainly engaged in teaching, business, and banana production; the Arabs, Pakistanis, and Indians are primarily shopkeepers.

Note that the information above comes from a site called the "Encyclopedia of the Nations."

[CmdrWilkens]

Since when are Somalis a race?

Since forever? Somali is most certainly an ethnic group with its own distinct language, located on the Horn of Africa, primarily Ethiopia, Somalia and Kenya to the tune of 25 million people. They are certainly not less of a race then say Koreans or Vietnamese would be.

Funny- I don't recall saying anything about Kenyans and Ethiopians. I was specifically talking about Somalian refugees.

Which, aside from the point of fact that statistics tend to support the problems, you and everyone else are lumping them together caategorically. Its the kind of shit that would give my HR manager nightmares. Anytime it becomes a group which is universally denigrated as "bad" then we are dealing with a prejudiced statement. Yes we can look at the problems caused by Somali immigrants but it doesn't change the fact that classifying all such immigrants by those actions is literally discriminatory. Personally I don't care if we call it rascist or not its still classifying a group of people and giving them traits based SOLELY on gentic identity with that group.

Now none of this changes the fact that the refugees are fleeing from a total shitstorm of a situation where death, devastation, famine, and every nigh on apolcaliptic event occurs as a matter of routine. So it isn't, as you pointed out, suprising that such events would occur but once we label the entire Somali immigrant population its an inherently discriminatory gesture.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Is anyone going to bring up Ayaan Hirshi Ali in this thread?

[Axis Kast]

Since when are Somalis a race? They're a nation, not a race. And a horrible, shitty nation at that, torn apart by war and virtually bereft of government. It would be some kind of fucking miracle if they were not socially maladjusted.

You are evading the real point of my criticism, which is that it is ridiculous to denigrate an entire group of people on the basis of even two or three dozen personal experiences.

I contend that you and everyone else pushing this "Somalis are the worst" bullshit would (quite rightly) be having a shit-fit if it somebody commented about how Poles or Italians or Mexicans were - entirely and virtually without exception - world-class fuckups. A point nobody could make unless they chose to rely solely on a series of personal anecdotes.

[Darth Wong]

Since when are Somalis a race? They're a nation, not a race. And a horrible, shitty nation at that, torn apart by war and virtually bereft of government. It would be some kind of fucking miracle if they were not socially maladjusted.

You are evading the real point of my criticism, which is that it is ridiculous to denigrate an entire group of people on the basis of even two or three dozen personal experiences.

Oh come off your bullshit high horse. It's not just those experiences; the crime rates in areas of Somali settlement around the city are statistical evidence of the problem, and if I said the same thing about refugees from a shitty Detroit slum, no one would have a problem with it. And yet, a Detroit slum is nowhere near as horrible an environment as Somalia, is it?