The Galactic Republic v. Chancellor Palpatine

[TC Pilot]

So the Jedi did not have the type of authority where they could go and arrest PAlpatine. Fine, that doesn't change the fact that from the beginning I think Mace Windu fucked up and it doesn't change the fact that evidence for Palpatine being a Sith Lord existed.

Again, read Publius. He demolished this argument almost two weeks ago.

What point? All you've done is alternate between "Jedi have no evidence" and "you're missing the point" without explaining a damn thing.

For the sake of brevity, I'm going to paraphrase us:

Darth Fanboy: Don't you think Palpatine being outed as the guy who committed treason would be proof of his crimes?

TC Pilot: Uh...yeah, duh. Except he wasn't outed. It's like saying Palpatine and Yoda fighting with the Senate still in session would be proof too.

Darth Fanboy: That's actually not evidence, since it happened after Mace tried to arrest Palpatine!

TC Pilot: I think you missed the point...

Darth Fanboy: No I didn't! Strawman!

Seriously, just go back and read.

Here you are saying That you didn't say the Jedi had no evidence, and now you're saying the "visible majority of your post is about the Jedi having no proof".

I'm operating under the presumption that proof and evidence are not simpy interchangable synonyms, in that one would need enough evidence for proof that he was guilty.

Clear now?

[Darth Fanboy]

Again, read Publius. He demolished this argument almost two weeks ago.

Pubilus pointed out that the Jedi didn't have the authority to waltz in and aresst the chancellor. But that doesn't disqualify that the Jedi have evidence for a second Sith from a reliable source. Once Palpatine outs himself to Anakin as depicted in the novelization the Jedi know what they are dealing with and can then put together the evidence. Instead Windu acts hastily and gets thrown out a window while leading the Jedi into a trap.

My whole point is that the evidence does exist to make a case. They have this.

For the sake of brevity, I'm going to paraphrase us:

For the sake of brevity, i'm going to paraphrase us:

DF: Evidence exists. Here it is.

TC: No it doesn't.

I'm operating under the presumption that proof and evidence are not simpy interchangable synonyms, in that one would need enough evidence for proof that he was guilty.

Clear now?

If you can connect Palpatine to Sidious, which the Jedi should be able to do if they don't rush in to the Chancellor's office, then you can connect him to the CIS Leadership quite easily.

The search for Sidious in LoE traces back to the sublevels below 500 Republica. There is plenty of reason to believe a second Sith exists and that this Sith has access to that building.

With the recording of Sidious, they can compare that to Palpatine and compare height/size and possibly voice. In this same recording, we see him speaking with Nute Gunray, one of the leaders of the CIS.

If Palpatine didn't have control of the courts, then this should be plenty for the Jedi to begin pushing for the removal of Palpatine from office.

[TC Pilot]

My whole point is that the evidence does exist to make a case. They have this.

Publius also took care of this a long time ago.

For the sake of brevity, i'm going to paraphrase us:

DF: Evidence exists. Here it is.

TC: No it doesn't.

Don't try being clever. It doesn't suit you.

If you can connect Palpatine to Sidious, which the Jedi should be able to do if they don't rush in to the Chancellor's office, then you can connect him to the CIS Leadership quite easily.

How can they connect Palpatine to Sidious?

It's Anakin Skywalker's word against Palpatine's. Who's more reliable? A mentally unstable psychopath who has been concealing a marriage and pregnant wife from his Order, or the head of state?

The search for Sidious in LoE traces back to the sublevels below 500 Republica. There is plenty of reason to believe a second Sith exists and that this Sith has access to that building.

What reason is there to believe there is a second Sith Lord at all?

With the recording of Sidious, they can compare that to Palpatine and compare height/size and possibly voice. In this same recording, we see him speaking with Nute Gunray, one of the leaders of the CIS.

Then why did they never do this? Why did Gunray or Greivous never notice the similarities?

[Lord Revan]

Since Gunray is a Nemodian and Grievous Kahlee (or how ever the species name was spelled)?

how do not know that they don't think that all humans look alike (sure the similary is striking to us but would it the same to an alien?)

[BountyHunterSAx]

Evidence that alien's in star wars can't tell humans apart readily? Then evidence that Grievious who has machine-enhanced reflexes and vision would be unable to do it?

-AHMAD

[TC Pilot]

Evidence that alien's in star wars can't tell humans apart readily? Then evidence that Grievious who has machine-enhanced reflexes and vision would be unable to do it?

-AHMAD

I think Ackbar mused once in either one of the JAT or Darksaber that all humans looked alike to him, except for certain people like Leia because he had been around her so long.

But you'd think half-robot Greivous could notice that the guy who gives him orders happens to look and sound like the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic.

Which is still besides the point, since the Jedi had the transmission yet never used it to compare it to any of Palpatine's staff or associates. Either they were mind-numbingly inept and stupid, or couldn't use it to identify Palpatine.

[BountyHunterSAx]

We've established that Jedi do a lot of stupid things and we attribute it conveniently to arrogance. There are two sides to this discussion as I see it.

The first question is the legality/correctness of what they actually did and the way they did it. Clearly this was wrong, and could have been used by Palpatine to evade prosecution for High Treason.

The second question, though not specifically the one the Topic Creator outlined, is to try and say "Assuming the Jedi had tried to put Palpatine on trial, legally, and the senate (us) was now hearing the case, would the Jedi be able to produce enough evidence to prosecute?" The second case never would happen since Palpatine would not go through with the arrest nor would the Jedi go through proper channels to perform it, that said it's an interesting question to try to answer.

I'd say it's this second question that has been wrestled with more and more in this topic.


So getting to my actual response to your comment, the reason the Jedi likely didn't bother checking Palpatine was hinted at in ROTS Novelization, in a comment that said something to the effect of "Palpatine is not a suspect because he already controls the universe". They didn't feel there was a future in analyzing Palpatine for sith-ness. Once they have Anakin testifying to Mace Windu that he was indeed, and they go into their "pre-trial evidence gathering" a simple voice/facial analysis would be a natural first step they would take (or the investigative team that would be responsible for fact finding independent of the Jedi, I don't know how the senate conducts its trials).

-AHMAD

[NecronLord]

But you'd think half-robot Greivous could notice that the guy who gives him orders happens to look and sound like the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic.

I expect the fact that the Sith operated on his brain without his consent to make him a psychotic monster had something to do with it. It shouldn't be that hard to fit in something that supresses such potentially dangerous thoughts. (IIRC, even, Children of the Revolution has Sidious tellking Dooku to keep an eye on him for any behaviour dangerous to them; which is presumably betraying them, as he's not a match for either Sith Lord in personal combat) Though I doubt he finds it that easy to tell humans apart, except by their clothes and manner, anyway. How well can we tell Kalee apart?

[TC Pilot]

I expect the fact that the Sith operated on his brain without his consent to make him a psychotic monster had something to do with it. It shouldn't be that hard to fit in something that supresses such potentially dangerous thoughts.

Possibly. That would have made it ironic if Greivous had followed through in his plans to disembowel Palpatine after Dooku was killed.

Though I doubt he finds it that easy to tell humans apart, except by their clothes and manner, anyway. How well can we tell Kalee apart?

Have we ever seen Kaleesh unmasked?

I guess it just depends on how humanoid they are.

[NecronLord]

Have we ever seen Kaleesh unmasked?

Only as an action figure. Though now that I've said that, Children of the Revolution shows that their priests at least look old, so there's some telling them apart.