Rich pigopolists getting richer massively faster; troubling

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Rich pigopolists getting richer massively faster; troubling

Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

December 15, 2007
Report Says That the Rich Are Getting Richer Faster, Much Faster
By DAVID CAY JOHNSTON

The increase in incomes of the top 1 percent of Americans from 2003 to 2005 exceeded the total income of the poorest 20 percent of Americans, data in a new report by the Congressional Budget Office shows.

The poorest fifth of households had total income of $383.4 billion in 2005, while just the increase in income for the top 1 percent came to $524.8 billion, a figure 37 percent higher.

The total income of the top 1.1 million households was $1.8 trillion, or 18.1 percent of the total income of all Americans, up from 14.3 percent of all income in 2003. The total 2005 income of the three million individual Americans at the top was roughly equal to that of the bottom 166 million Americans, analysis of the report showed.

The report is the latest to document the growing concentration of income at the top, a trend that President Bush said last January had been under way for more than 25 years.

Earlier reports, based on tax returns, showed that in 2005 the top 10 percent, top 1 percent and fractions of the top 1 percent enjoyed their greatest share of income since 1928 and 1929.

The budget office report takes into account a broader definition of income than tax returns that is known as comprehensive income. It includes untaxed Social Security benefits, welfare, food stamps and part of the value of Medicare benefits, giving a fuller picture of incomes at the bottom than tax data.

Much of the increase at the top reflected the rebound of the stock market after its sharp drop in 2000, economists from across the political spectrum said. About half of the income going to the top 1 percent comes from investments and business.

In addition, Congress in 2003 cut taxes on long-term capital gains and most dividends, which advocates said would encourage people to turn untaxed wealth into taxable income. Some economists have said that the increase in incomes at the top is illusory and is in good part simply converting untaxed assets into taxed income to take advantage of reduced tax rates.

The Congressional Budget Office report made no attempt to explain the increases in income in its annual report on effective federal tax rates paid by people at different income levels.

Asked how much of the increase at the top was from the tax cuts rather than market gains, Peter R. Orszag, the budget office director, said, “I can’t give you an answer to that because we just don’t know.”

Chris Frenze, Republican staff director for the Congressional Joint Economic Committee, said the increase in top incomes is much more modest if viewed over longer time periods. Since 2000, he said, the average income of the top 1 percent has risen $97,900, or 6.7 percent, the same percentage increase this group had from 1992 to 1997.

Jared Bernstein, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute in Washington who characterizes the Bush administration’s policies as YOYO economics, based on You (Are) On Your Own, said the differences in income growth explained why so many Americans have told pollsters that they are feeling squeezed.

“A lot of people justifiably feel they are working harder and smarter, they are baking a bigger and better pie, and yet their slice is not growing much at all,” Mr. Bernstein said. “It is meaningless to middle- and low-income families to say we have a great economy because their economy looks so much different than folks at the top of the scale because this is an economy that is working, but not working for everyone.”

At every income level Americans had more income, after adjusting for inflation in 2005 than in 2003, but the increases ranged from almost imperceptible for the poor to modest for the middle class and largest for those at the top.

On average, incomes for the top 1 percent of households rose by $465,700 each, or 42.6 percent after adjusting for inflation. The incomes of the poorest fifth rose by $200, or 1.3 percent, and the middle fifth increased by $2,400 or 4.3 percent.

The share of all federal taxes paid by the top 1 percent grew, but only slightly more than half the rate of their growth in incomes because of the tax rate cuts. The top 1 percent paid 27.6 percent of all federal taxes in 2005, up from 22.9 percent in 2003, while the share paid by the middle fifth of taxpayers declined to 9.3 percent from 10 percent in 2003.

The share of their income that the top 1 percent paid in all federal taxes and in income taxes fell. The total tax rate dropped 1.8 percentage points, to 31.2 percent, from 2003 to 2005 while their average income tax rate declined one percentage point, to 19.4 percent, largely because of the cuts in taxes on capital gains and dividends.
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The Duchess of Zeon
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

You know, it does occur to me that at this point we could probably double taxes on the top 1% of the population and gain enough revenue to eliminate taxes for everyone making less than 30k a year.
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Post by Stark »

Wouldn't you need to apply such a tax in a non-dodgeable way? And I doubt any politician who did this (even if a tiny increase for such wealthy people would make a massive difference to the state) would get much campaign money.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Let's see. The top 1% of America's earners own 50% of its assets. The other 99% own the other 50%. The corporations right now are trying to keep the boat afloat so as to pay themselves horrifically high Xmas bonuses on the order of tens of billions throughout the biggest companies.

In the New Year, I expect the charade to fail and the rich who haven't made plans for the economic calamity of unprecedented effect about to hit, will be wishing they weren't so dumb with their finances.
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Post by Master of Ossus »

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Let's see. The top 1% of America's earners own 50% of its assets. The other 99% own the other 50%. The corporations right now are trying to keep the boat afloat so as to pay themselves horrifically high Xmas bonuses on the order of tens of billions throughout the biggest companies.

In the New Year, I expect the charade to fail and the rich who haven't made plans for the economic calamity of unprecedented effect about to hit, will be wishing they weren't so dumb with their finances.
Are you seriously expecting that to happen next year? Good luck.
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Post by Surlethe »

This outcome, while sad, makes perfect sense in an unregulated market. The wealth of the wealthy grows exponentially because the more money you have and make, the more you can invest to generate wealth.
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Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

Surlethe wrote:This outcome, while sad, makes perfect sense in an unregulated market. The wealth of the wealthy grows exponentially because the more money you have and make, the more you can invest to generate wealth.
That goes to show that money is energy is mass. They all self-gravitate.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

yeah, I learned this on computer simulators when I would drive a price up by buying all of a certain good, then sell it after too many people clamoured about my shortage....
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Master of Ossus wrote:
Are you seriously expecting that to happen next year? Good luck.
Given the number of people who are shitting themselves over this, yes.
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Post by Bounty »

What the hell is a "pigopolist"?
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Post by K. A. Pital »

Monopolist pig, I guess. ;)
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Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

Bounty wrote:What the hell is a "pigopolist"?
Someone who wants to pig out by monopolizing ALL the money supply.
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Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

The Yosemite Bear wrote:yeah, I learned this on computer simulators when I would drive a price up by buying all of a certain good, then sell it after too many people clamoured about my shortage....
Welcome to the world of 'Pump and Dump' :lol:
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Post by Darksider »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:You know, it does occur to me that at this point we could probably double taxes on the top 1% of the population and gain enough revenue to eliminate taxes for everyone making less than 30k a year.
Not that I care about impacting their lifestyles one bit, but would the wealthiest 1% of americans even notice a decline in their standard of living if their taxes were doubled?
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Darksider wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:You know, it does occur to me that at this point we could probably double taxes on the top 1% of the population and gain enough revenue to eliminate taxes for everyone making less than 30k a year.
Not that I care about impacting their lifestyles one bit, but would the wealthiest 1% of americans even notice a decline in their standard of living if their taxes were doubled?
Probably, but that's because their standard of living today involves spending a month and a half every year in some rented palace in Malta having giant Roman parties with gold baked into their cakes and naked ice sculptures, and buying clothing which costs in the range of ten thousand dollars for a full dress or suite.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

I know there are shitty rich people - but has THAT actually happened?
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Post by Vympel »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I know there are shitty rich people - but has THAT actually happened?
Yup. Some sort of scandal from two or three years ago, IIRC. Everything Duchess said rang a bell.
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Vympel wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:I know there are shitty rich people - but has THAT actually happened?
Yup. Some sort of scandal from two or three years ago, IIRC. Everything Duchess said rang a bell.
Here we go.
As Chief Executive Officer of Tyco International, Dennis Kozlowski became famous for spending $6,000 on a shower curtain and throwing a $2 million Roman toga birthday party for his wife. Today, Kozlowski is serving a prison sentence that could last 25 years, convicted of stealing more than $100 million from the company. In an exclusive interview with Morley Safer, Kozlowski speaks for the first time.
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Post by K. A. Pital »

Heh. This is funny. One of the Russian oligarchs invited Jennifer Lopez to his birthday party of something for 15 minutes for $2 million. Later another one did the same for $3 million.

"Standard of living" for those people is something so remote from our common understanding that it's hardly something a general person can even comprehend. At least here.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

I'm curious what a $6,000 shower curtain looks like. I imagine it's laced with platinum leaf and was made by the world's most expensive hookers and peppered in the finest coke. Also, it gives you orgasms when touched.

These people literally have more money than they can deal with. It's like when you play a strategy game and activate a cheat or are so good that you have endless resources. You go giddy and buy whatever you want. Then, you buy more things and more until your whole army consists of the most advanced units possible. So you buy more of the bastards and have them fight themselves for your amusment because you have nothing better to fucking do.

There's never been a time when wealth this extreme has existed. Not the grandest pharoah or emperor or king had access to the stuff the stinking rich today have access to.

I hope they have savings though. The number of people who follow Tyson's route and somehow become destitute after having hundreds of millions in the bank seems to be growing in the celebrity world.
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Post by Stark »

But it's not just ridiculously rich people: there are whole industries to support their huge ability to spend and provide products that are in some way worth hundreds or thousands of times what a regular example does. When people get so rich they don't even think about price unless it's over 50K, why not market absurdly expensive cutting boards and shower curtains? Better to sell one than to sell 10,000 regular ones for the same profit.
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Seriously, median income right now is 43k. Now, assuming an average of about a 17% tax rate for everyone who makes 43k a year or less (taking into account the usual deductions and the fact that some don't have to pay tax at all, as they don't work or don't make enough money, etc), each person in that bracket has to pay an average of $7,310 in income taxes. Multiple that times 55 and you have another $402,000 a year per person for those making an average of 1.55 million a year. Whereas, as the article says: On average, incomes for the top 1 percent of households rose by $465,700 each, or 42.6 percent after adjusting for inflation.

So you could probably eliminate taxes for half the population of the country by.. Wiping most of the gains that the top 1% have made in.. Three years. Doing so would require increasing the total tax rate they pay from 31.2% on average to 57.1% on average, and their income tax rate from 19.4% to 45.3%. Note that the base tax rate is 35% for that income bracket, so the average person in the top 1% of the country is currently able to claim a savings of 44.6% of their base tax rate in deductions. If those deductions were all eliminated then their income tax rate would only have to be increased by 33% above that to yield the necessary revenue to the government which would eliminate the need for the bottom half of the population to pay income tax.

That is, I think, rather illustrative of how things are.

Obviously if such a programme were to be introduced it would be more reasonable to start with a 2% tax at 20k, 3% at 25k, 5% at 30k, 7% at 35k, 10% at 38k, 13% at 40k, 16% at 43k, 19% at 46k, and use that small amount of revenue to reduce taxes in the 43 - 46 range as noted and then go to 22% for 46 - 50k, and then resume the original bracket at 25% from 50 - 75k. This would eliminate the need to tax anyone making less than $20,000 a year, which is unquestionably impoverished in this modern country. Notice that the income tax rate for someone making an average of 1.55 mils a year in raw income would only be twice as high as that for someone making between 46 - 50k a year, despite the fact that the rich person is making up to 40 times that of the middle class person.
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Post by Stark »

Would that work, though? Graduating tax out further and slower would really be a good idea, but with enough money to throw at accountants and lawyers, don't these people report tiny earnings to be taxed on? Aren't there more direct, un-dodgeable means of taxation?
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

So long as the people with that wealth are lobbying, no one will bring in such measures. Quite simply, they are too powerful to bring down to the level of everyone else.

They embody the very life goal Americans invoke so often. How can we possibly eliminate them? As long as this system exists, so will they.
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Post by aerius »

Stas Bush wrote:Heh. This is funny. One of the Russian oligarchs invited Jennifer Lopez to his birthday party of something for 15 minutes for $2 million. Later another one did the same for $3 million.
For that kind of money, she damn well better be getting naked and fucking me senseless all night. :)
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