The Cybran Nation in ST Galaxy

[WesFox13]

Hey all, Remember my Garden of Kadesh in the Delta Quadrant topic? Well here's another match up with ST.

Due to an act of Q or some sort of omnipotenient entity or some sort of displacement warp in the quantum network. About two weeks later Starfleet Command receives an odd message. The image is that of a hologram of a man in front of a brain in a vat with cybernetic enhancements on it. The hologram then speaks with the cybernetic parts on the brain flashing in rythim with the man's speech. "To the main power in this universe. I am Dr. Gustaf Brackman, leader of the Cybran Nation. I ask of you to recognize my nation as an independent entity with in your galaxy. I will give you about two Earth weeks to discuss your decision.". Then the transmission cuts off.

The scenarios:
-The federation sends an envoy to the Cybran homeworld but make the shocking discovery that they are cyborgs and think that they could be a Spy operation by the Borg and declare war with them.
-Another power (The Klingons, Romulans or some other alien nation) declare war on the Cybran nation.
-The Federation ally with the Cybran nation but are somewhat seen under discrimination because they resemble the Borg. Brackman demands more information about the Borg from the Federation and decides to use the "Symbiont liberation Matrix" on the Borg somehow.

What happens?

[Nephtys]

This is a silly matchup. We don't know any numbers for SupCom units, and visual range is silly in how low it is. Yet the fact that they possess any sort of armored unit seems to suggest they'd miserably crush any power in ST on the ground, combined with the mobility of Gate-travel... I suppose there's nothing any ST power can do except nuke the first instant an ACU is detected.

Though wasn't TA somehow quantified? Could those numbers be usable?

Uh, what's the point of the liberation matrix on the Borg? All it did was remove the UEF's loyalty software on their Symbionts.

[Uraniun235]

Total Annihilation's numbers were basically derived as follows:

1) Cavedog employee says that, seeing as the official literature is pretty sparse, the fictionalized recountings of major games on the Boneyards network are as valid as any other literature concerning TA;

2) One of these fictionalizations contains a throwaway line in which during a battle "gigatons of firepower" are exchanged;

3) Game mechanics (basically, what's the most units that could have been involved in the battle based on standard game rules) are used to divvy up those "gigatons" among the various units;

4) TA instantly becomes retard-strong (that dinky laser the Commander had worked out to somewhere between 120KT to 7.5MT) to those willing to accept the above reasoning while dismissing the fact that aforementioned game mechanics also call for units to take significant damage from standing next to a burning tree.

5) ???

6) GG


Seriously, TA does not have numbers. There is no overall consistent body of evidence regarding the performance of TA units. And if there were such numbers, I doubt they'd be applicable to Supreme Commander.

[Ford Prefect]

Though wasn't TA somehow quantified? Could those numbers be usable?

TA has numbers inferred from a variety of sources, primarily game fluff (particularly the Galactic War Reports). However, the numbers determined for Total Annhilation cannot be used for Supreme Commander, as they are totally different universes*. Besides, the most optimistic calcs for SupCom put them a full order of magnitude below TA - and those are based upon game mechanics.

*Although, if we did use those numbers (which we shouldn't), it probably wouldn't be very good for Star Trek, as the Galactic War Reports have some crazy shit int hem.

[Xon]

Uraniun235, "gigatons of firepower" is from the Galactic War reports which where written by Cavedog employees and hosted on the Boneyards (TA's multiplayer service) website.

Not from the fanfics.

*Although, if we did use those numbers (which we shouldn't), it probably wouldn't be very good for Star Trek, as the Galactic War Reports have some crazy shit int hem.

Evacing sevreal billion people with ~6 ships in less than a week come to mind. That is some crazy ability to move mass never mind moving people.

[Xon]

Besides, the most optimistic calcs for SupCom put them a full order of magnitude below TA - and those are based upon game mechanics.

We do know that a single UEF Commander can build enough nukes in a week that they can completely depopulate a planet with carpet nuking.

[Ford Prefect]

We do know that a single UEF Commander can build enough nukes in a week that they can completely depopulate a planet with carpet nuking.

You see, that's what I'm talking about! Any more information on that particular event, such as the concentrations of people on the planet, or resultant damage to the biosphere?

[Stark]

God, it's EXACTLY THE SAME as the Homeworld one.

'Guyz with retardo nano lathes *waves hands furiously* kill all wit their unimaginable industrial output using tiny solar plants and what appears to be silver'. Since the single player side of Supcom was pathetically boring, I'm not aware of the Cybran's spacefleet, without which they should get raped before they have a chance to build massive armies of poorly-designed robots out of trees (but not rocks, zomg game balance) on every planet.

Do people REALLY play TA and think the weapons are multi-megaton? I mean, honestly, deep down in their heart of hearts?

[Zor]

We have seen Cybran Spacecraft, for about ten seconds during the whole History of the SupCom universe intro of the first movie. But we don't really have much to go on, the only Cinematic with any real sugnifigance tactically is that of the battle between UEF/Aeon/Cybran forces and the Aliens in the opening of Forged Alliance.

Zor

[Xon]

We do know that a single UEF Commander can build enough nukes in a week that they can completely depopulate a planet with carpet nuking.

You see, that's what I'm talking about! Any more information on that particular event, such as the concentrations of people on the planet, or resultant damage to the biosphere?

We have fuckall to work on, beyond it was a habital world with a viable biosphere but after it didnt. I first saw that info on an interview and you might even be able to track down the planet by navigating the god-aweful flash website of the official website looking at the planets info.

[SylasGaunt]

It's the cybran homeworld it's referring to, or at least the original.

Of course the thing about that is that the UEF IIRC has had a garrison there for a long time. Plus it didn't depopulate the planet, he just started mass nuking and the survivors promptly ran the hell away.

[Nephtys]

We have seen Cybran Spacecraft, for about ten seconds during the whole History of the SupCom universe intro of the first movie. But we don't really have much to go on, the only Cinematic with any real sugnifigance tactically is that of the battle between UEF/Aeon/Cybran forces and the Aliens in the opening of Forged Alliance.

Zor

Couldn't one get a reasonable yield calculation on the Seraphim T4 Nuclear Bomber's bombs, based on the intro? It shows thousands of them sterilizing Earth from orbit, so we'd have fairly accurate scale.

[Zor]

We have seen Cybran Spacecraft, for about ten seconds during the whole History of the SupCom universe intro of the first movie. But we don't really have much to go on, the only Cinematic with any real sugnifigance tactically is that of the battle between UEF/Aeon/Cybran forces and the Aliens in the opening of Forged Alliance.

Zor

Couldn't one get a reasonable yield calculation on the Seraphim T4 Nuclear Bomber's bombs, based on the intro? It shows thousands of them sterilizing Earth from orbit, so we'd have fairly accurate scale.

Alright, but the knowlage on their space copacity is still very limited. Although i did see what looked like fightercraft flying alongside the Cybran Ship that carried Brackman and his founding symbionts to found the Cybran nation. Possibly we could make out how big their ships are by comparing Black sun's beam to the gate that it fired into. We do know how big the ACUs by the three opening sceens and we do see them in comparison to black sun.

Zor

[Darth Wong]

Has anyone else here actually completed the SupCom single-player game? I completed the UEF game (I found the missions sufficiently boring that I didn't want to finish either the Cybran or Aeon campaigns), and the Black Sun superweapon at the end destroyed several planets, from light-years away. Even if we avoid game mechanics and fanfics and go strictly with the sparse information found in the in-game cut-scene videos (generally considered the most "accurate" depiction of a game-based universe), these guys are definitely capable of playing with the big boys.

Mind you, the Black Sun superweapon also inadvertently opened up a rift in spacetime which allowed thousands of Seraphim warships to come pouring through and depopulate Earth, so the technology is not without its downside. But these guys must surely have some serious heavy-hitter weapons technology if they can build something like that.

[Xon]

Has anyone else here actually completed the SupCom single-player game? I completed the UEF game (I found the missions sufficiently boring that I didn't want to finish either the Cybran or Aeon campaigns), and the Black Sun superweapon at the end destroyed several planets, from light-years away. Even if we avoid game mechanics and fanfics and go strictly with the sparse information found in the in-game cut-scene videos (generally considered the most "accurate" depiction of a game-based universe), these guys are definitely capable of playing with the big boys.

In the Aeon ending, the Princess uses Black Sun to transform herself into sometype of energy being which is transmited across the Quantum Gateway network and brainfucks every human into peace. Then the Seraphim invade.

The Cybrans have the QAI transmitted across the gate network which which disables the Loyalty programming in every AI-human hybrid.

Forged Alliance is based of either the Cybran or the Aeon ending, probably the Cybran ending since the FA campaign has the Princess coming back in time todo some voodoo can close the Quantum Rift.

Mind you, the Black Sun superweapon also inadvertently opened up a rift in spacetime which allowed thousands of Seraphim warships to come pouring through and depopulate Earth, so the technology is not without its downside. But these guys must surely have some serious heavy-hitter weapons technology if they can build something like that.

Black Sun isn't DET (but it is still damn impressive) and the rift was the result of the Seraphim invading not the other way around.

[Coalition]

I'd argue for looking at the nuclear weaponry. The maps have length and width dimensions, and the nuclear weapons have a specific blast pattern.

Compare the nuclear blast to the dimensions of the map to get an idea of what the limits are for the different effects, and we can get a rough scale of damage from there. Walk different units/experimental units through the blast to see which survive, and how long it takes them to die, to get a rough damage capacity. That sets upper limits on their damage capacity.


Still, for the Cybrans, I'd wonder what their space capability was like. Is their Soul Ripper (T4 big gunship) capable of going outside an atmosphere? Do they have any space-based capabilities?

Otherwise, I'd argue that they may curb-stomp on the ground, but someone is going to bombard them from space until they surrender. Their best friend might be the Binarians (the little computer guys who always travel in twos). The Cybran computer interfaces with the Binarian own computers could mean great friends right there.

Of course, their capability to rapidly industrialize a planet means the Maquis would love to trade with them. Matter to energy conversion reactors, energy to matter for fabrication, rapid repair capability (install a few engineers on a small space station), even portable construction (if the Cybrans are transported into orbit) means the Maquis will be a tougher nut to crack on the ground. The Quantum gates (the ones that spit out the subcommanders) mean that planet to planet transport of critical personnel is does not rely upon warp-capable ships.


Short answer: The Maquis will try to trade warp engines, transporter technology, star maps, and offer a planet within their area, in exchange for a few weeks of industrial production. Add to that possible members joining the Cybrans to help out their friends, and soon the Maquis will be deciding local politics.

[MJ12 Commando]

TA has numbers inferred from a variety of sources, primarily game fluff (particularly the Galactic War Reports). However, the numbers determined for Total Annhilation cannot be used for Supreme Commander, as they are totally different universes*. Besides, the most optimistic calcs for SupCom put them a full order of magnitude below TA - and those are based upon game mechanics.

*Although, if we did use those numbers (which we shouldn't), it probably wouldn't be very good for Star Trek, as the Galactic War Reports have some crazy shit int hem.

Depends how "optimistic" you want the calcs. A very silly throwaway calc based on Black Sun gives Light assault bots petatons. I believe (other people may disagree) that the mention of antimatter artillery being used in the UEF's T3 artillery pieces, the fact that UEF nuclear weapons technology is probably at LEAST as good as the stuff they used in the fifties, and with a bit of barrel scaling, that the Demolisher is going to be at least good for multikiloton firepower if not more.

(the assumption is that as antimatter is notoriously finicky for everyone but the Aeon, they would not use antimatter weaponry unless it outperformed nuclear weapons of equivalent size.)

However, what we do know and have confirmed is that Supcom has lots of strategic nuclear weaponry and has in fact fried planets with it. That's pretty much it on numbers or yields.

On space capability: Cybran T3 aircraft are mostly all space capable. You see Geminis flying escort for a huge Cybran colony ship in the game intro and in the Cybran campaign intro a Revenant reenters the atmosphere of a planet.

Use these tidbits however you like.

[Ghost Rider]

Yay for Necro!